Low Speed Derailment Sheffield 11/11

[Class 170101]

It looks like platform 5 is back in operation again today, from the south end only

EDIT: As is platform 6 southbound

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Nov 2020 ==


Looking at RTT, it looks like trains are running on this route

195004 ran the first service through this morning (all were cancelled yesterday)

Realtime Trains - 2P03 0635½ Sheffield to Lincoln Central

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Platform 6 also used northbound a few times this evening departing on Shunt signals.

 

[johnnychips]

The wagon that fell over has now been righted.

 

[dosxuk]

It's not, it's still on its side. Looks like they're working from the rear forwards the tipped wagon.

 

[Killingworth]

It's not, it's still on its side. Looks like they're working from the rear forwards the tipped wagon.

View attachment 85810

Nice picture well illustrating the train and the damaged track. Looks likes a lot of cement needs removing before they lift all the wagons, currently well rammed up into each other. Good job it's not yet an electrified station!

 

[Taunton]

Here's how the USA does it (15 minutes, mostly after the first five). Such tracked lifting jacks seem to get readily mobilised within an hour or so of an incident there. They are a Caterpillar company product. I don't think the US would be into day 3 of dealing with an incident like this.

 

[Killingworth]

Here's how the USA does it (15 minutes, mostly after the first five). Such tracked lifting jacks seem to get readily mobilised within an hour or so of an incident there. They are a Caterpillar company product. I don't think the US would be into day 3 of dealing with an incident like this.

Horses for courses. Derailed in a goods yard, derailed in a busy station with heavily laden freight wagons next to heavily used lines for passenger traffic. Where are the assets and how easy is it to get them to the site. Most important of all how can the assets be used. You'd not get a Caterpillar vehicle like that along one side of this incident - and it would cause more track damage to get it to the other without a lot of protective preparation. I'd leave the Americans to look after their own railways.

 

[stuartl]

Nice picture well illustrating the train and the damaged track. Looks likes a lot of cement needs removing before they lift all the wagons, currently well rammed up into each other. Good job it's not yet an electrified station! View attachment 85815

There was an environmental services tanker parked in the road outside yesterday plus a second lorry with extra pipes, don't know if that is going to be used to suck up the spilt cement. Though if it's wet inside probably not !
Sorry didn't see the earlier post showing it sucking the cement out of one of the wagons.

 

[Cynfal]

There was an environmental services tanker parked in the road outside yesterday plus a second lorry with extra pipes, don't know if that is going to be used to suck up the spilt cement. Though if it's wet inside probably not !
Sorry didn't see the earlier post showing it sucking the cement out of one of the wagons.

Well Sheffield station sits as an elongated bridge over the river sheaf. I would expect there to be concern about stuff getting into the watercourse and that sensible measures would be taken to mitigate risks.

 

[158747]

A reminder that it's best if people avoid speculating too much about causes or what happened or why it happened until their is some official statements. Discussing the clean up and response is fine but I do have to ask that we move on from the reasons behind the incident itself.

Thanks

Why no speculation?
Surely the point of this forum is to discuss such incidents as this when they occur and to speculate on the possible cause.

 

[island]

Here's how the USA does it (15 minutes, mostly after the first five). Such tracked lifting jacks seem to get readily mobilised within an hour or so of an incident there. They are a Caterpillar company product. I don't think the US would be into day 3 of dealing with an incident like this.

It’s not a question of what country, just where it happens in that country.

 

[Bald Rick]

Here's how the USA does it (15 minutes, mostly after the first five). Such tracked lifting jacks seem to get readily mobilised within an hour or so of an incident there. They are a Caterpillar company product. I don't think the US would be into day 3 of dealing with an incident like this.

Of course, they have a LOT more practice at it than we do.

 

[DarloRich]

Of course, they have a LOT more practice at it than we do.

they also work under an entirely different regulatory, environmental and legislative framework than we do. But then I guess that isn't important...........

 

[father_jack]

There was an environmental services tanker parked in the road outside yesterday plus a second lorry with extra pipes, don't know if that is going to be used to suck up the spilt cement. Though if it's wet inside probably not !
Sorry didn't see the earlier post showing it sucking the cement out of one of the wagons.

Dry cement in those tanks.

 

[stuartl]

Dry cement in those tanks.

I meant that the if the tank they were putting it in was wet, obviously the cement in the derailed wagons is dry otherwise it would be rather solid by the time it got to its destination.

 

[Bald Rick]

cement from many of the wagons is being removed and taken away by road.

 

[aleggatta]

cement from many of the wagons is being removed and taken away by road.

would this be to ease logistics of the recovery operation, or to prevent expiry of the product from the possible prolonged timeframes involved with the investigation?

 

[ABB125]

they also work under an entirely different regulatory, environmental and legislative framework than we do. But then I guess that isn't important...........

I suppose the question to ask here is "can we learn anything from their approach?", but I suspect I know the answer...

 

[ModernRailways]

would this be to ease logistics of the recovery operation, or to prevent expiry of the product from the possible prolonged timeframes involved with the investigation?

Trying to rerail wagons that are full of cement will require a lot more energy and effort. It's easier to pump it all out and rerail them empty. Less can go wrong then

 

[Bald Rick]

would this be to ease logistics of the recovery operation, or to prevent expiry of the product from the possible prolonged timeframes involved with the investigation?

To enable the Kirow crane to lift the wagons back on.

 

[WestRiding]

Whenever we have a incident such as this, I always remember back to the Madrid Train Bombings in 2004, where they had trains running past the scene within a few hours of it happening. No direct comparison, but we do come across as rather slow to get the job going again in the UK.

 

[johnnychips]

Trying to rerail wagons that are full of cement will require a lot more energy and effort. It's easier to pump it all out and rerail them empty. Less can go wrong then

They are busy pumping it out now, and there seems to be a loco in platform 2 with a few wagons that presumably didn’t leave the rails pointing west.

I must apologise for suggesting that the fallen wagon had been put upright this morning. Of course cylindrical things look the same sideways as upright... sorry!

 

[Darandio]

Whenever we have a incident such as this, I always remember back to the Madrid Train Bombings in 2004, where they had trains running past the scene within a few hours of it happening. No direct comparison, but we do come across as rather slow to get the job going again in the UK.

There were trains running past the scene here within hours. Or am I missing something?

 

[Killingworth]

There were trains running past the scene here within hours. Or am I missing something?

You weren't, and reports on Radio 2 and possibly elsewhere suggesting nothing was moving at Sheffield were incorrect. The Hope Valley Manchester route lost early TPE services until about 8.30 and East Midlands Norwich-Liverpool were sent round the Dore curve but soon resumed normal operation. Northern stoppers had small delays but ran to timetable. As the day wore on more services resumed using emergency working.

However there are safety and practical constraints on reopening too soon. Platform 1 was obviously blocked along with the track next to it on which the wagons had derailed. The next track and Platform 2 were needed for recovery of the derailed vehicles. Platforms 3 and 4 were out of use to allow TPE, XC and limited Northern trains on other platforms to use the limited tracks still available to run norrh past the derailed vehicles.

I suspect that if overhead wiring had been spanning the complex layout the introduction of the crane would have been rather more difficult.

 

[markymark2000]

I suppose the question to ask here is "can we learn anything from their approach?", but I suspect I know the answer...

At the risk of going OT, Americas railways are not very busy in comparison to ours and even less so with passenger trains. Here we have an issue with there being multiple wagons and we are juggling to keep lines open for many passenger services. In the photo shown above, it's a 2 track straight railway which instantly would make it easier to sort than Sheffield which is all curves and points and trying to keep as much open as possible for passenger trains.

I think there may be some things we can learn from over there to get these incidents deal with quicker but I don't think you are comparing apples with apples there.

 

[johnnychips]

I have absolutely no complaints about the replacement buses and the limited train services available. I think the coordination to organise this was excellent, and it has got me to and from work without too much inconvenience.

What is notable - and I will not say surprising, as exactly the same thing happened in the floods this time last year - is the lack of human announcements at Sheffield. So automatic voices tell you there is a bus to Meadowhall - but no indication of what connections are available. Want to go to Penistone? No suggestions.

At the moment, with fewer passengers I suppose you could ask at the ticket office, which is queueless.

Ironically, there is a detailed, prerecorded description about what to do if you are heading to East Anglia this weekend because of the Peterborough-Ely works.

 

[ABB125]

At the risk of going OT, Americas railways are not very busy in comparison to ours and even less so with passenger trains. Here we have an issue with there being multiple wagons and we are juggling to keep lines open for many passenger services. In the photo shown above, it's a 2 track straight railway which instantly would make it easier to sort than Sheffield which is all curves and points and trying to keep as much open as possible for passenger trains.

I think there may be some things we can learn from over there to get these incidents deal with quicker but I don't think you are comparing apples with apples there.

That's kind of what I was expecting!

 

[Killingworth]

I have absolutely no complaints about the replacement buses and the limited train services available. I think the coordination to organise this was excellent, and it has got me to and from work without too much inconvenience.

What is notable - and I will not say surprising, as exactly the same thing happened in the floods this time last year - is the lack of human announcements at Sheffield. So automatic voices tell you there is a bus to Meadowhall - but no indication of what connections are available. Want to go to Penistone? No suggestions.

At the moment, with fewer passengers I suppose you could ask at the ticket office, which is queueless.

Ironically, there is a detailed, prerecorded description about what to do if you are heading to East Anglia this weekend because of the Peterborough-Ely works.

I was in Sheffield yesterday and was amused to hear two announcements at 15.44 as I approached Platform 2C for the 15.45 Hope Valley stopping service. One was for that train, which if I'd have been much further away I'd have missed. (It left at 15.46.) The other was for the 15.45 bus to Meadowhall from the Interchange. Usain Bolt wouldn't have had time to catch that!

However, to be fair, the illuminated displays above the ticket office and on the Platforms gave details of replacement bus services from stand E6 at the bus station. I have the display in the very blurred background of a picture at 15.12, with a clear number to phone for more information. But no, the point of going to Meadowhall or Nottingham wasn't clear.

 

[johnnychips]

I must also add that there is an excellent gentleman at Doncaster with a Hi-Viz saying something like ‘Rail Replacement Co-Ordinator‘ on it who is superb at actively seeking out passengers, talking with the bus drivers and telling them where to park, making sure they know where and when to stop. He said he would definitely be working on Monday and was on standby for Tuesday.

 

[43055]

The births in platforms 3 & 4 now show SOWC (showing occupied when clear) instead of UNIT now so presumably the units that were trapped have been moved.

 

[yorksrob]

According to Traksy, Hallam line services appear to be going through to Sheffield now, which is good news.