Will we see mass protests against authoritarianism and Covid19 restrictions?

[Darandio]

I'm intrigued to think how the toothy liar (Tony Blair) would have managed it. He'd probably have considered COVID a WMD (let's give it some credit, at least COVID exists unlike those alleged WMDs), bombed China and had us all nuked to smithereens.

Good grief, were you on the sauce last night?

 

[Yew]

This probably isn't the right place to rehash old brexit debates...

 

[brad465]

Today's Trafalgar square protests have made the BBC landing page already, which seems to be a different reporting level compared to previous weekends:

Covid: Clashes as police shut down protest over new rules

At least three protesters and nine officers are injured in London, while 16 people are arrested.

www.bbc.co.uk

Thousands of people have gathered for an anti-coronavirus restrictions protest in Trafalgar Square, London.

Those attending the "we do not consent" rally did not appear to be social distancing or wearing masks as they demonstrated against government rules.

Protests are exempt from the rule-of-six restrictions, but demonstrators must social distance and organisers must submit a risk assessment.

Police said the rules were designed to keep people safe from a lethal virus.

Also the Metro article there are multiple pictures from it, and while the conspiracy theorists appear to be present as expected some placards appear to be more about the causes of not wanting restrictions for the sake of freedom and livelihoods jeopardised:

Bottles thrown as anti-lockdown protesters chant 'pick your side' at police

Protesters and police have clashed at a 'We do not consent' rally in Trafalgar Square.

metro.co.uk

Thousands of anti-lockdown protesters chanted ‘take off the mask’ as they protested in central London today. Huge crowds gathered for a ‘We do not consent’ rally in Trafalgar Square on Saturday afternoon after the UK was hit with a new Government crackdown this week.

 

[kristiang85]

Looks like the police have already started moving in. From the videos I saw there weren't actually any scuffles until that happened. What the hell are they doing? Certainly treating this very differently from the BLM protests, which they almost encouraged despite the same virus restrictions. Obviously I'm only going off videos on the Internet though, so maybe I haven't seen the full story. It's just a pity that the nutjobs there like Icke and Corbyn are taking away from the fact that a lot of people are simply there to protest at freedoms being taken away from them with no parliamentary scrutiny or scientific basis.

I'm not one for hyperbole, but I'm really worried about where this country is going right now.

 

[birchesgreen]

We are on a very dangerous path.

 

[geoffk]

That was, pretty much, the very point of the protests. People who basically felt ignored because what the 52% wanted totally overrode the interests of the 48% losing their rights.

That's worth protesting about. The only democratic country possibly ever to vote away its population's own rights.

And the only country ever to impose economic sanctions on itself. Don't forget that Parliament never voted to leave the EU. The decision was made by Theresa May based on the narrow result of a non-binding referendum. If the outcome predicted for January is anything like accurate, Covid will be among the least of our problems.

 

[thejuggler]

Looks like the police have already started moving in. From the videos I saw there weren't actually any scuffles until that happened. What the hell are they doing? Certainly treating this very differently from the BLM protests, which they almost encouraged despite the same virus restrictions. Obviously I'm only going off videos on the Internet though, so maybe I haven't seen the full story. It's just a pity that the nutjobs there like Icke and Corbyn are taking away from the fact that a lot of people are simply there to protest at freedoms being taken away from them with no parliamentary scrutiny or scientific basis.

I'm not one for hyperbole, but I'm really worried about where this country is going right now.

The laws around gatherings have been tightened significantly since the BLM protests. A risk assessment is submitted, if the organiser can't control the crowd to maintain social distancing it will be dispersed.

It is however probably only a matter of time before it all kicks off.

 

[Mojo]

Agreed army on the streets would be terminal, it would be a total last gasp for breath and a complete admission of failure. Are there actually the resources for them to do much more than go to a few selected scenarios?

There’s been a lot of backpedaling since he said this earlier in the week. The latest I’ve heard is that *if* they are required, then it would be to undertake duties such as protection of important buildings and similar. There are currently some ~700 officers were undertaking these duties.

 

[jtuk]

Best to see what happens in January before dismissing 'project fear'. The way things are going the predictions might well prove accurate.

Brexit can't destroy an economy if Johnson and Hancock get to it first

 

[DB]

Brexit can't destroy an economy if Johnson and Hancock get to it first

That might be their intention!

 

[Bikeman78]

There is no such right in law and it’s ludicrous to pretend that there is. People can take steps to reduce their own risk of exposure but, if you catch it, it’s just tough luck.

EDIT: and why would it be “stupid” to make mask wearing (an activity which has demonstrably had no benefit) voluntary? The stupidity has been in doubling down on the requirement:

“It isn’t working, so let’s do more of it!”.

Late June masks were mandatory in England but not Wales. I went for my first post lockdown bus ride and only two out of 15 people had masks. The age range was three to approx 70.

 

[43066]

Protesting about a decision made by due democratic process, even if that mandate was weak and the thing itself bad, is getting into the realms of the very bizarre, TBH. And I'm pro-Remain.

I’m in complete agreement with you there. It was a binary in/out choice, so it’s difficult to see what there was to protest about. The arguments made by both sides were debated extensively, and the decision was taken.

I considered attending today’s anti-Covid restrictions protest in London, but decided against it. I’m very glad I did, because it seems it was once again hijacked by lunatic conspiracy theorists.

That was, pretty much, the very point of the protests. People who basically felt ignored because what the 52% wanted totally overrode the interests of the 48% losing their rights.

That's worth protesting about. The only democratic country possibly ever to vote away its population's own rights.

With a binary decision, the losing side were always going to feel ignored. That’s just the nature of the beast, I’m afraid.

 

[yorkie]

This probably isn't the right place to rehash old brexit debates...

Agreed.

Can we avoid mentioning Brexit from now on please

 

[43066]

Agreed.

Can we avoid mentioning Brexit from now on please

Fully agreed.

I’m sure we all hark back, to a more innocent world, where Brexit was all we had to argue about!

 

[talldave]

I’m in complete agreement with you there. It was a binary in/out choice, so it’s difficult to see what there was to protest about. The arguments made by both sides were debated extensively, and the decision was taken.

I considered attending today’s anti-Covid restrictions protest in London, but decided against it. I’m very glad I did, because it seems it was once again hijacked by lunatic conspiracy theorists.

Sadly predictable. But if you and I and every other sane dissenter had gone, then the nut jobs would have been outnumbered.

I've never protested about anything in my life, but I do feel we're getting to the point where I'm going to have to vent my anger somehow.

 

[317 forever]

If they took no notice of the near-million protesting about Brexit they won't take any notice of a few thousand covid protesters. Unless, of course, they just happen to be Tory voters.

Admittedly with Brexit a small majority had voted for it (although I voted Remain). However, nobody voted for the mishandling of Covid.

For all the government's belief in their own ideas, the spread of the virus resulting from the protests could in numerical terms cancel out the prevented spread by people who do keep to the rules & guidelines.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Sep 2020 ==

It's only the Welsh lockdowns that ban tourism in the affected areas. The English ones don't, provided you are only with your household or alone. So yes, you can still go to Blackpool if you want, though why you would want to is an interesting question

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Sep 2020 ==


No, because I don't believe banner waving actually achieves anything other than getting your personal anger/frustration off your chest.

I am considering going to Blackpool soon. I am curious to see the work in progress at Blackpool North in connection with the tram extension there. I understand that a Wilco store is being demolished ready for a new tramstop to be built, due for completion in 2022. The tram line is due to open next year, using a temporary terminal stop. I fear that, by the time the permanent stop opens, the Citaros may already be withdrawn. Hence my preferance to go soon and go back once the new tram line and tram stop are both open.

 

[londiscape]

Wasn't sure where was best to post a link to this article, but given it makes a very good point about the separation between unhinged conspiracy theorists and those of us of a rational disposition who despair of the abandonment of democracy, economy, physical (non-covid) and mental health, jobs and human rights, I put it here as its content has a direct impact on viability of future protests:

Covid and the collapse of reason

How we got here, and how we might get back to normality.

www.spiked-online.com

...What we are witnessing is what happens to society when fear and distrust dominate. When the impulse of catastrophism overrides our commitment to coolly negotiating the risks we face and trusting communities to devise plans and strategies that work for them in times of crisis. One of the frustrating things for those of us, like spiked, who have taken a critical approach to the events of the past six months is that we are often caricatured as not taking Covid-19 seriously or as conspiracy theorists who think powerful forces, especially the government, are cynically exploiting this crisis to pursue the dastardly authoritarian ends they always had in mind. In spiked’s case, nothing could be further from the truth. As we have argued from the beginning, Covid-19 represents a serious threat, but it is one that society would be more than capable of dealing with, and living with, if a culture of fear and a climate of distrust had not come to dominate our institutions and cultural imagination over the past 30 years....

Free content (not behind paywall) - and yes I know Brendan O'Neill is pro-B**xit but if we could put that aside for a minute and judge only on what he has to say on this topic, that'd be good.

 

[Howardh]

It comes as no surprise to learn that parliament's bars and reastaurants (how many are there?) are fully open and subject to no curfew at all, not even 10pm curfew. This is beyond the pale, one hundred thousand rules for us, none for them.

I can't sit here and take this any more.

 

[Huntergreed]

It comes as no surprise to learn that parliament's bars and reastaurants (how many are there?) are fully open and subject to no curfew at all, not even 10pm curfew. This is beyond the pale, one hundred thousand rules for us, none for them.

I can't sit here and take this any more.

Height of hypocrisy, and I expect nothing less.

Masks should have been mandated in parliament ages ago, and that they haven’t shows that they don’t believe they have any effect and are just doing it to build confidence.

It shows what they truly think about it all.

 

[Bantamzen]

It comes as no surprise to learn that parliament's bars and reastaurants (how many are there?) are fully open and subject to no curfew at all, not even 10pm curfew. This is beyond the pale, one hundred thousand rules for us, none for them.

I can't sit here and take this any more.

I think a lot people feel the same now.

 

[Howardh]

I think a lot people feel the same now.

Even throughout the Brexit debacle, I consider myself reasonably mild-mannered, shrug the shoulders and say "whatever". Anything for a quiet life.

This morning my political blood's boiling like never, ever before. I feel so helpless, but if there were riots and civil disobedience, I don't think I could stay at home. Not saying that's right, but enough's enough, we're having our freedoms totally removed whilst those in power continue in their tax-payer funded ways laughing in our faces. It's so wrong.

Basically trying to get the Tories to admit to and change their ways is like....impossible.

 

[PHILIPE]

We find it difficult to have an orderly and sensible protest due to it being hi-jacked by nutters like Piers Corbyn and David Icke

 

[kristiang85]

Even throughout the Brexit debacle, I consider myself reasonably mild-mannered, shrug the shoulders and say "whatever". Anything for a quiet life.

This morning my political blood's boiling like never, ever before. I feel so helpless, but if there were riots and civil disobedience, I don't think I could stay at home. Not saying that's right, but enough's enough, we're having our freedoms totally removed whilst those in power continue in their tax-payer funded ways laughing in our faces. It's so wrong.

Basically trying to get the Tories to admit to and change their ways is like....impossible.

I agree with this post in the main, I feel the same. I've never been one for protest at all, but had Saturday not involved various conspiracy nutjobs, I might well have gone there myself.

But as for the last line - the opposition is just as complicit. I watched the Q&A after Boris' speech the other week and they all seemed to be agreeing with them (just quibbling over delays in testing, etc. rather than the whole concept of the measures). Even worse, some of the opposition- e.g. Khan and Sturgeon - want our freedoms to be eroded even more.

My trust in politicians of all persuasions is at an all time low, though at least there are some vocal Tory backbenchers against this madness. Just how much influence they will have though, I don't know.

 

[stevetay3]

I would go if my health would allow, but I am afraid that all nut jobs are getting in the way of real protesters campaigning. for a return to our rightful.freedoms.

 

[bramling]

I agree with this post in the main, I feel the same. I've never been one for protest at all, but had Saturday not involved various conspiracy nutjobs, I might well have gone there myself.

But as for the last line - the opposition is just as complicit. I watched the Q&A after Boris' speech the other week and they all seemed to be agreeing with them (just quibbling over delays in testing, etc. rather than the whole concept of the measures). Even worse, some of the opposition- e.g. Khan and Sturgeon - want our freedoms to be eroded even more.

My trust in politicians of all persuasions is at an all time low, though at least there are some vocal Tory backbenchers against this madness. Just how much influence they will have though, I don't know.

I must admit I’m getting close to the point where I’m well up for some civil disobedience.

Boris boils my blood just by appearing, and Hancock is no better.

I’m not necessarily sure protests are the right mechanism though. A mass ignoring of restrictions would probably work just as well. Even better would be a big load of key workers downing tools, but that’s probably not viable unfortunately.

 

[MikeWM]

We find it difficult to have an orderly and sensible protest due to it being hi-jacked by nutters like Piers Corbyn and David Icke

Without pointing fingers at specific individuals, I wonder how much 'controlled opposition' there may be in play here.

It would certainly be an effective tactic if that was what was happening. How many people are saying 'I would protest, but I don't want to be associated with this other stuff'?

So effective in fact, that I find it hard to believe that it hasn't been at least considered.

 

[Yew]

Without pointing fingers at specific individuals, I wonder how much 'controlled opposition' there may be in play here.

It would certainly be an effective tactic if that was what was happening. How many people are saying 'I would protest, but I don't want to be associated with this other stuff'?

So effective in fact, that I find it hard to believe that it hasn't been at least considered.

That certainly doesn't sound like something Dominic Cummings would do?

 

[anthony263]

I think the chancellor is starting to see yhe mood change in this country. Sooner or later something is going to give

 

[DB]

I think the chancellor is starting to see yhe mood change in this country. Sooner or later something is going to give

He seems to be the only one in a senior position likely to show some sense - Johnson and Hancock are looking more clueless and hopelessly out of their depth every day.

 

[Bletchleyite]

He seems to be the only one in a senior position likely to show some sense - Johnson and Hancock are looking more clueless and hopelessly out of their depth every day.

Hancock admitted to Parliament that a suppression, not elimination, strategy was being followed - and then approved the Council request in the North East for a tighter lockdown! To be fair I do agree that there is no sense in having guidance - it should be law or nothing, because people just ignore guidance - but it should not be Councils deciding this, it should be based on fixed, national criteria e.g. cases per 100K, with a figure at which measures kick in (and those measures fixed), and a figure at which they are released again.