the most over the top restrictions introduced

[Scrotnig]

So confining students to halls at Christmas at my university would require either a) the University to pay for our rent and food over Christmas, b) the University to pay for our rent and students to pay for the hall to provide food, or c) students to pay for both rent and food, which is either brought to you or you buy out every day. None of these options are ideal.

The fourth option is d) don't imprison them in the first place. It's absolutely outrageous.

I don't condone rioting normally but it should absolutely happen over this. Just what is the matter with society, that we tolerating this?

 

[AngusH]

The descriptions in this article on BBC news are pretty shocking:

Police break up parties at Edinburgh student halls

Officers were called to the University of Edinburgh's main halls of residence complex on Friday.

www.bbc.co.uk

"A Zoom meeting was just now held for affected students of the same household, where a representative told a small group of students that the entire building, not just the affected household, was to be locked down imminently, causing chaos in the community," he said.

"Food was not delivered until late afternoon leaving me hungry and without supplies for the first part of the day.

"Now people are panicking because no one has actually received any real details about this, and no-one knows how will it will be enforced either. Some are out and about getting supplies not knowing if this already goes against the rules."

A first-year student living in another block at Pollock Halls told the BBC there was a "pretty weird vibe" around the university.

"There's always police here now. It feels like we're being watched 24-7 which is a bit scary," she said.

The descriptions from the students themselves particularly.

 

[BJames]

The fourth option is d) don't imprison them in the first place. It's absolutely outrageous.

I don't condone rioting normally but it should absolutely happen over this. Just what is the matter with society, that we tolerating this?

I was just stating their only options if they are forced to stay at University. I fully support option d) and personally will be travelling home for Christmas regardless of what they have to say about it (may be a bit easier living out of halls but I won't appreciate any attempts to block us from travelling back).

To be fair, the protest in Trafalgar Square today, whilst not focusing on students, was definitely one of the highest turnouts of people against the restrictions that I've seen so far, although I did see on the videos people shouting "say no to 5G" as usual, just continuing to undermine some genuinely valid points about the over-the-top impositions on freedom.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Sep 2020 ==

The descriptions in this article on BBC news are pretty shocking:

Police break up parties at Edinburgh student halls

Officers were called to the University of Edinburgh's main halls of residence complex on Friday.

www.bbc.co.uk

The descriptions from the students themselves particularly.

That's concerning. Looks like they're being locked down with no proper support being given. I would definitely be one of those students going out and getting supplies, especially if it didn't look like the University was going to provide them. I know very well how difficult it is to get hold of members of staff at the University - it can take days.

 

[AngusH]

There's also this astonishing picture of the dining arrangements:

First year students complain after being forced to sit alone during lunch

Freshers at the University of Edinburgh have complained about its strict coronavirus measures.

metro.co.uk

I'm beginning to think that the university shouldn't have started at all, especially given these are quite likely the same students that suffered with their exams being mismanged earlier in the year.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

There's also this astonishing picture of the dining arrangements:

First year students complain after being forced to sit alone during lunch

Freshers at the University of Edinburgh have complained about its strict coronavirus measures.

metro.co.uk

I'm beginning to think that the university shouldn't have started at all, especially given these are quite likely the same students that suffered with their exams being mismanged earlier in the year.

That looks worse than school dinners, and that's saying something.

 

[fraser158]

Disgusting and ridiculous.
I love how Wee Jimmy Krankie airly says that the students are "deemed" to have formed a new household, for the Scottish students presently in this situation.
Deemed by whom? Where is "household" defined in law?
Surely if the act of walking into your student residence "deems" you to have joined a household, the act of returning home for a weekend must "deem" you to have (re)joined that household?
If I was one of those students I'd be doing whatever I wished to. I'd tell the private security to go forth and multiply if they challenged me. AFAIK there is no provision in law for anybody to be confined to a bedroom or building, unless they have returned from abroad. And even then there is provision to honour for exercise and to buy food etc.
I'm kind of hoping the politicians keep pushing it to far, just so that the whole house of nonsense cards falls down.

I would argue that in a lot of cases they have not "formed a new household" for the purposes of the legislation.

Regulation 2(1) of the Health Protection (Coronavirus) (Restrictions and Requirements) (Scotland) Regulations 2020 says:

“household” means—

(a) one person living alone, or​

(b) a group of persons living together in the same place as a family or other unit (whether or not related) and who have the place as their only or main residence​

Although, if they do form another household because they are living alone, then they could form an extended household with their family home.

“extended household” means two households—

(a) which have chosen to be treated as a single household for the purpose of—​

(i) these Regulations, or​

​

(ii) the Health Protection (Coronavirus) (Restrictions) (Scotland) Regulations 2020, and​

(b) have not already chosen to be treated as a single household with any other household​

 

[LAX54]

Maybe some of the 'experts' in this and that, who are quoted in the press everyday, should just keep quiet ! they always seem at odds with each other, and all they do is create more panic and mayhem in the publics mind !

 

[Bantamzen]

There's also this astonishing picture of the dining arrangements:

First year students complain after being forced to sit alone during lunch

Freshers at the University of Edinburgh have complained about its strict coronavirus measures.

metro.co.uk

I'm beginning to think that the university shouldn't have started at all, especially given these are quite likely the same students that suffered with their exams being mismanged earlier in the year.

Well some authoritarian git has had a whale of a time there. I hope in years to come when the psychological effect on students being treated like lepers becomes clear, that these box tickers have a warm cuddly feeling that they made a difference. Frankly the more I see of this, the more I am forming the opinion that it is time to start pushing back on these kinds of things before they destroy our society. Quiet honestly, if protests start springing up in my area, I will quite happily be on the front line.

 

[DelayRepay]

There's also this astonishing picture of the dining arrangements:

First year students complain after being forced to sit alone during lunch

Freshers at the University of Edinburgh have complained about its strict coronavirus measures.

metro.co.uk

That looks awful. And unnecessary.

Perhaps if the uni halls were a bit more welcoming, there would be fewer students going out? Perhaps the whole hall should be treated as one household/bubble? Let them mix and party within the hall as they like for the next few weeks. They'll all have had it well before Christmas. Get some of the Uni science department to measure how it spreads and call it an experiment in heard immunity.

 

[birchesgreen]

No no no!

If you stand on the yellow circle the other patrons will be CovidSECURE™

Ah yes i need to keep up to date with my covid buzzwords

 

[trebor79]

That looks awful. And unnecessary.

Perhaps if the uni halls were a bit more welcoming, there would be fewer students going out? Perhaps the whole hall should be treated as one household/bubble? Let them mix and party within the hall as they like for the next few weeks. They'll all have had it well before Christmas. Get some of the Uni science department to measure how it spreads and call it an experiment in heard immunity.

Eminently sensible suggestion. And therefore won't happen.
If ever there was a group of young people least likely to "kill granny" it's students in their first term.
We're just living in an age of state sponsored hysteria now. Unfortunately it appears that we are stuck with it until sufficient numbers wake up to it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Maybe they'll be able to post pictures of themselves eating beans on toast for Christmas dinner on YouTube and so you can have a good old laugh at them.

Or maybe they could have a proper flat Christmas dinner, having learnt to cook it?

No, what's beyond ridiculous is the idea that we can imprison innocent civilians in a tiny room without them having committed any offence.

I do agree this is over-draconian. However, the point I'm simply making is one surrounding cooking.

I would agree as it's a good skill, but it's genuinely not always possible in halls. For example, we had an interesting (and admittedly quite unusual for these days) setup in my hall (I left last year and am now in private accommodation) - it was fully catered, with the only "cooking" facilities being a microwave, toaster and kettle in a pantry, which you share between the 20 of you on a corridor (needless to say we didn't really use it). I wish there had been actual kitchen facilities to supplement the catered offering but the fact is that there wasn't. The good thing was that I could always go over to my friends in self catered for a different meal if needed... not possible this year given the restrictions on halls.

This is fairly unusual, so far as I recall from being a student. The Manchester catered halls had small galley-kitchens, typically with a Baby Belling (a small 2-ring plug-in electric cooker with oven) and a small (beer?) fridge. Not ideal, but usable.

But we also didn't pay for the time we weren't supposed to be there, i.e. Christmas and Easter. So confining students to halls at Christmas at my university would require either a) the University to pay for our rent and food over Christmas, b) the University to pay for our rent and students to pay for the hall to provide food, or c) students to pay for both rent and food, which is either brought to you or you buy out every day. None of these options are ideal.

Ideal options do not exist in a pandemic.

 

[trebor79]

I think this is interesting and warrants some discussion:

Table showing covid infection numbers in US universities, totalling 48,229 infections, leading to 2 (two) hospitalisations and 0 (zero) deaths.
This does support the idea a few posts back that students be released from their house arrest and encouraged to mingle with each other in the normal way.
More generally, it supports the notion that nationwide lockdowns and restrictions upon normal life are heavy handed and unwarranted.
There are many ways of supporting and protecting vulnerable people. For example they could have N95 masks made freely available to them. Prioritised and free shopping deliveries. Live in staff in care homes (to reduce the chance of staff bringing it it). Ideas like this are less disruptive, less costly (in terms of direct money, cost social and economic costs) and more effective long term than the random blunt instruments being deployed at present.

 

[DelayRepay]

Or maybe they could have a proper flat Christmas dinner, having learnt to cook it?

...The Manchester catered halls had small galley-kitchens, typically with a Baby Belling (a small 2-ring plug-in electric cooker with oven) and a small (beer?) fridge. Not ideal, but usable.

I think most uni flats are shared between 6 - 8 people (ish).

I am not sure how you could cook a Christmas dinner for eight people with the facilities you describe. And I am not sure how a small fridge would hold enough supplies for 8 people over a few days when the shops are shut. Do remember that as well as a roast, you are likely to have to do a vegetarian option too.

And where would they eat this dinner, given one student has posted that his uni has a rule that no more than three are allowed in the kitchen at any time, and another has posted that all communal areas in his residence have been closed?

I'm sorry but this is unrealistic. I really hope students don't have to stay in their halls at Christmas, but if they do, we do we need to recognise that they're not doing it for their own benefit, and make it as comfortable as possible including full catering, if that's what's offered during term time.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

That looks worse than school dinners, and that's saying something.

That’s more segregated - I assume - than dining areas in HM Prisons!
I was going to suggest they try going to a ‘Crisis At Christmas’-type place for Xmas dinner, but then there will probably be none of those open this year, due to social distancing worries...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think most uni flats are shared between 6 - 8 people (ish).

I am not sure how you could cook a Christmas dinner for eight people with the facilities you describe. And I am not sure how a small fridge would hold enough supplies for 8 people over a few days when the shops are shut. Do remember that as well as a roast, you are likely to have to do a vegetarian option too.

The shops are shut for 2 days, in some cases only one day. And you'd find a way, for example using turkey steaks rather than fresh turkey. I guess you've never done camp cooking? You can do some quite good stuff with limited facilities. And a veggie option is hardly difficult; it's easier than meat (most of the meal is veggies anyway).

And where would they eat this dinner, given one student has posted that his uni has a rule that no more than three are allowed in the kitchen at any time, and another has posted that all communal areas in his residence have been closed?

Those rules are stupid and unnecessary - the correct way is to treat each flat as a household.

I'm sorry but this is unrealistic.

It's really not.

How would some of the posters in here cope with an actual war?

 

[Bantamzen]

How would some of the posters in here cope with an actual war?

BINGO!! That was the last phrase I needed to complete the unofficial Bantamzen RUK Bingo game. Thanks!

 

[LAX54]

All this Government 'Kill your Granny' malarky, talk about blackmailing people to stay away! Has anyone asked Granny if they wished to 'risk' seeing family, and very slightly having the possibilty they may catch the bug, or sit alone at home or in care home and die of solitude and mental degredation !
As for official figures, we would do better knowing who has had, or has it badly, not just those that prove 'positive' in a form that is no worse that flu !

If we use the now well worn WW2 analagy, we would fall at the first hurdle, with no one being able to cope, and lock themselves away, hoping it will go away !

 

[Bantamzen]

All this Government 'Kill your Granny' malarky, talk about blackmailing people to stay away! Has anyone asked Granny if they wished to 'risk' seeing family, and very slightly having the possibilty they may catch the bug, or sit alone at home or in care home and die of solitude and mental degredation !
As for official figures, we would do better knowing who has had, or has it badly, not just those that prove 'positive' in a form that is no worse that flu !

Granny doesn't have a choice. Their kids don't want to risk being blamed for killing Granny, so its better that we shut down society to spare them the guilt.

 

[A Challenge]

The shops are shut for 2 days, in some cases only one day. And you'd find a way, for example using turkey steaks rather than fresh turkey. I guess you've never done camp cooking? You can do some quite good stuff with limited facilities. And a veggie option is hardly difficult; it's easier than meat (most of the meal is veggies anyway).

To stop students going home would mean confining students to halls and saying they can't leave at all for any reason with enforcement on the door at all times, which I see they are trying in Glasgow for one weekend, though doing it at every Uni hall in the country (27% of the 2.38 million students are in Uni halls, which is 640,000) would be a staffing nightmare. If they were to do this, it would require stopping students going to do shopping as well, which would mean keeping two weeks of food in this small fridge (maybe two between six students). Do you think that is reasonable? Students will go home, and the only thing they can do then is to stop them being allowed back in January (though the threat might stop some people).

 

[Bletchleyite]

They can use other sanctions, such as being kicked off their course for non-compliance. For historical reasons, universities do have a lot of that sort of power - particularly older ones like Oxford and Cambridge where the University actually has its own constabulary.

 

[LAX54]

Granny doesn't have a choice. Their kids don't want to risk being blamed for killing Granny, so its better that we shut down society to spare them the guilt.

Has anyone asked Granny ? ! Has anyone asked any of the older population, I do not konw that many, maybe 10 or 11 over 70, NONE of them agree with the way thingd are going, they want to see people, they want to live out the rest of their lives as best they can, not isolated.
Of course it's only in recent years that the human race has got to 80 / 90+ normally (NOT always) by the use of drugs etc, how many times have we seen in the paper that some of the ofer generation just wish to 'go' but are kept with us in what amounts to decisions against their wishes.

 

[trebor79]

I see now in the press Labour shadow cabinet suggesting students be allowed to study from home "where they are safer". Absolutely disgusting to spread needless fear amongst young people away from home from the first time. They are at zero risk from COVID.

 

[Bantamzen]

Has anyone asked Granny ? ! Has anyone asked any of the older population, I do not konw that many, maybe 10 or 11 over 70, NONE of them agree with the way thingd are going, they want to see people, they want to live out the rest of their lives as best they can, not isolated.
Of course it's only in recent years that the human race has got to 80 / 90+ normally (NOT always) by the use of drugs etc, how many times have we seen in the paper that some of the ofer generation just wish to 'go' but are kept with us in what amounts to decisions against their wishes.

As I say, Granny has no choice. Granny is being dictated to by her children because they fear being blamed for anything that happens to her. Worse still, Granny's grandkids are now being treated as an actual threat to her, and so its more important than ever to shut everything down to save Granny. Meanwhile Granny is losing the will to live because she can't see her family, but that doesn't matter because nobody will feel guilty for that.

But if Granny were to have a say, she would rather see her family than see society collapse in a paranoia induced frenzy.

 

[LAX54]

As I say, Granny has no choice. Granny is being dictated to by her children because they fear being blamed for anything that happens to her. Worse still, Granny's grandkids are now being treated as an actual threat to her, and so its more important than ever to shut everything down to save Granny. Meanwhile Granny is losing the will to live because she can't see her family, but that doesn't matter because nobody will feel guilty for that.

But if Granny were to have a say, she would rather see her family than see society collapse in a paranoia induced frenzy.

Exactly, so it's the Government bumping off 'Granny' via the back door ! bringing fear into the grandkids, who are scared they are the bringer of death, and FB for multiplying the fear 10 times over.
Was in a shopping Centre a few weeks back, waiting outside a store for the wife to come out, a mum and a what must be a 10 or 11 year old walked towards the door, and the child stopped dead in her tracks, and was so scared just to walk past me into the store, I had to move a few more yards down the mall ! (The parent was fussing all over her too !)

 

[DelayRepay]

The shops are shut for 2 days, in some cases only one day. And you'd find a way, for example using turkey steaks rather than fresh turkey. I guess you've never done camp cooking? You can do some quite good stuff with limited facilities. And a veggie option is hardly difficult; it's easier than meat (most of the meal is veggies anyway).

The shops are shut for two days. But clearly if the students are such a danger to society, we don't want them to be going out shopping every other day.

I have done camp cooking, when I've been camping. I enjoyed it, as part of a camping trip. I've never tried camp cooking at home but I don't think I'd consider turkey steaks and instant mash as an acceptable substitute for a christmas dinner with my family.

How would some of the posters in here cope with an actual war?

I hope we never find out, but I'm not sure what that's got to do with students and their Christmas catering arrangements

 

[Richard Scott]

How would some of the posters in here cope with an actual war?

I'm willing to bet better than majority of population in this country based on recent events.

 

[takno]

How would some of the posters in here cope with an actual war?

My Call of Duty performance suggests I'd do pretty well, which isn't bad considering I spend most of my time preparing for a zombie apocalypse. Not sure what it's got to do with your plan for students to eat reconstituted gruel for Christmas dinner for Christmas dinner though tbh.

 

[py_megapixel]

I see now in the press Labour shadow cabinet suggesting students be allowed to study from home "where they are safer". Absolutely disgusting to spread needless fear amongst young people away from home from the first time. They are at zero risk from COVID.

They are not at zero risk; they are simply at a smaller risk than older people.

I don't think Labour making one point like that is particularly "spreading fear" either. It may surprise you to learn that a significant chunk of the population cares about Covid-19; if students prefer to study from home where the risk is lower and accept the reduction in learning that comes with that then so be it.

 

[Richard Scott]

They are not at zero risk; they are simply at a smaller risk than older people.

I don't think Labour making one point like that is particularly "spreading fear" either. It may surprise you to learn that a significant chunk of the population cares about Covid-19; if students prefer to study from home where the risk is lower and accept the reduction in learning that comes with that then so be it.

Whether they care about it or not is irrelevant, it's the real world risk that counts and proving fairly low. I don't like flying but I know the risks are low so do it.