Bet you to it! Awaiting a response as we speak
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UK face coverings discussion
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Be interested in the response, some usual corporate drivel, which is what I've got back every time I've questioned something. No scientific backing at all.
Hope they respond about the lad without the mask who was asthmatic and get their training sorted too.
To be fair I do appreciate that they can’t control this and it’s not their fault. Just hope Ms. Sturgeon and Jason Leitch, who are both strongly pro mask, open their eyes to reality sometime, but I’m not particularly holding out on it!
If they’ve got any sense, rather than trying to justify the unjustifiable, they’ll hide behind the basic legal position (which they cannot help).
No excuse re. the lack of training, though!
I suspect it’s a combination of not asking staff to “enforce” as has been (rightly) resisted by the unions, and also wanting to confer some discretion on guards to defuse arguments over masks etc.
And of course good old fashioned railway disorganisation and unwillingness to spend money.
Perhaps @LowLevel could elaborate on what, if any, formal instruction he has been given.
We are encouraged to engage, explain, offer freebies to people without them, all in a non confrontational way. We are specifically barred from asking for evidence of disability or refusing access to trains. We are encouraged to make announcements asking people to be kind.
However it should be noted that much as some guards know it all about tickets despite knowing nothing, some are like a dog with a bone about this and without formal complaints nothing will be done about it.
According to the British lung foundation, people with asthma and other severe lung conditions can wear masks for short periods of time. Masks do not reduce the amount of oxygen you breathe in nor do they cause a build up of carbon dioxide as alleged by many people on the internet.
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That may not apply to everyone, we don't know if it causes the lad anxiety so we shouldn't be making blanket statements.
Saying that is like saying all Covid patients require ventilation just because a number of cases do. Everyone who has asthma (myself included) has different levels of tolerance of what they can and can’t do, I’ve found a mask for up to an hour is fine, beyond I need to remove it, and I have no problem telling that to any militant staff or a police officer.
Thanks. That’s exactly what I would have expected, and is all perfectly sensible. It’s a pity that, as always, things have to be taken too far by a few awkward characters.
I agree that, if staff are making up their own rules and are asking for lanyards, or about disabilities etc. they need to be formally complained about.
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That‘s a complete misrepresentation. What they actually say is:
COVID-19
Find out about COVID-19, if your lung condition means you’re more at risk, what to do if you get COVID-19, and if you’re eligible for vaccine boosters or anti-viral treatments.
So it’s entirely down to the individual, and will vary on a case by case basis.
EDIT: many organisations that represent the interests of people with specific medical conditions or disabilities (BLF, National Autistic Society etc.) have noted that many sufferers may be able to wear masks, and have published advice on how to do this if they are able.
I find it deeply sinister that mask enthusiasts are then falsely implying that this (no doubt well intentioned) advice means that all people with these conditions can wear masks.
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trainophile
Established Member
I should think this applies to most people, myself included (although hopefully not too grubby). I'm not carrying half a dozen or more masks around, and it is impractical to use a fresh one every time, as I remove it at the first possible opportunity and it stays in my bag until needed again, so could be on and off a dozen times a day. If it picks up a few germs in transit between my face and my bag so be it. I do have a clean one at the start of every day!
It is not a comptete misinterpretation, my quote comes from the start of the article, yours comes from further down. I wasn't implying that they should be forced to wear masks.Thanks. That’s exactly what I would have expected, and is all perfectly sensible. It’s a pity that, as always, things have to be taken too far by a few awkward characters.
I agree that, if staff are making up their own rules and are asking for lanyards, or about disabilities etc. they need to be formally complained about.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
That‘s a complete misrepresentation. What they actually say is:
COVID-19
Find out about COVID-19, if your lung condition means you’re more at risk, what to do if you get COVID-19, and if you’re eligible for vaccine boosters or anti-viral treatments.www.blf.org.uk
So it’s entirely down to the individual, and will vary on a case by case basis.
EDIT: many organisations that represent the interests of people with specific medical conditions or disabilities (BLF, National Autistic Society etc.) have noted that many sufferers may be able to wear masks, and have published advice on how to do this if they are able.
I find it deeply sinister that mask enthusiasts are then falsely implying that this (no doubt well intentioned) advice means that all people with these conditions can wear masks.
With respect you didn’t quote specifically. You (inaccurately) paraphrased:
Just like when TOCs say “face coverings are mandatory”, without mentioning exemptions, that statement gives a completely false impression of what the advice actually says. It even contains a template exemption screen saver for people with lung conditions!
That advice is written to help sufferers of severe lung conditions. It is not there to be twisted and misrepresented by those with an agenda.
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Just to add I see the guidance is on the new Scotrail advert advising people to wear masks and use contactless (ITV Hub I seen the ad), ad to me is similar to the Scottish Government. I think all these Government ads must think most of the public are stupid!, why not encourage people to use the train (seems a missed trick on that one)
Going to Glasgow in couple weeks for a few days this will be fun wearing a mask nearly all day (already work in care for 12 hours) but oh well better wear one than get arrested
EDIT: Take it back for a change, no Scotland mention or hashtagging Scotland on the ad horrah!
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Pete_uk
On Moderation
With cold weather coming, you will be able to see other people's breath and how long it lasts in the air and how far it spreads. So I'm guessing that people will be 'encouraged' to wear masks more in public places.
Also as the government tries to get more people back into work they may 'encourage' or mandate them in the workplace.
Also as the government tries to get more people back into work they may 'encourage' or mandate them in the workplace.
If they think being forced to wear a mask all day is going to encourage people to leave their own homes and work from the office, they've got another thing coming!
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Have any studies been done on viral load expelled through breathing as if it's minimal then this isn't an issue? Exhaled gases spread out becoming less concentrated as they do, same will be true of viral load.
scotrail158713
Established Member
That’s a very good point. I’d be very interested to know that. If I get time I may have a look today.
39 new virus cases in Wales yesterday. I'm not seeing a huge spike there to be honest.
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What have daily numbers been in Wales over past few weeks, if you have that info?
RomeoCharlie71
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Remember to look at "date reported", as the last few days by "specimen date" won't be 100% accurate.
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Thanks, looks pretty much in line with rest of the UK, if not slightly better so not having masks definitely not encouraging greater spread.
Remember to look at "date reported", as the last few days by "specimen date" won't be 100% accurate.
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Me too I have to admit, and is that not the point of people saying mask wearing is rather pointless, as you say 'if it picks uo a few germs......' then in theory a done job !
as we all know, staff in hospitals bin theirs after each interaction with patients. we just need to stop being governed by what the virus, might, or might not do...if anything to 99.5% of the population, and get back to normal day to day life !
trainophile
Established Member
I tried to post a reply to the post about the Cardiff flight and the positive tests, but messed it up, sorry and thanks to whoever deleted it.
My question was does this mean that airports are routinely testing passengers off all inbound flights then?
My question was does this mean that airports are routinely testing passengers off all inbound flights then?
More of what passes for 'the science,' which has been shared online by some of the top 'pro-mask brigade.' I include the key quote below which one would think renders the experiment nonsense, but not in 2020 it seems (especially because the person leading the experiment sells their own masks which have 'impregnated silver'.)
As proof irony is in fact dead, the author of the article commented on twitter: 'If you're an anti-masker, don't @ me unless you've got a literature review of peer-reviewed papers you want to discuss. Watching YouTube videos or reading FB posts doesn’t constitute “doing research”'
www.dailymail.co.uk
'While viruses can be up to 1,000 times smaller than bacteria, this gives us a good indication of how effective each mask might be at preventing transmission,' she says.
As proof irony is in fact dead, the author of the article commented on twitter: 'If you're an anti-masker, don't @ me unless you've got a literature review of peer-reviewed papers you want to discuss. Watching YouTube videos or reading FB posts doesn’t constitute “doing research”'
How virus-proof is your mask? Professor answers the burning question
Face coverings may be compulsory in more places now than ever - but how much protection do they really afford to people around you? Professor Val Edwards-Jones is pictured above testing masks.
'While viruses can be up to 1,000 times smaller than bacteria, this gives us a good indication of how effective each mask might be at preventing transmission,' she says.
It does seem bizarre that you can go round a Supermarket, and whilst customers mostly wear a mask, the employees do not, was round the Co-Op today, must have been about 10 to 15 customers, and maybe a few more than that staffwise, a few on checkouts, and the rest stocking shelves etc, non of them wearing a mask, or even keeping a distance ! it's not only the Co-Op of course !
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Not as employment, but when instructing artificial wall climbing (which I do for Scouting) I wear a helmet even though it's not really necessary and can be uncomfortable, because I find it hypocritical that other instructors don't when they are asking others to do so.
But, unlike with masks, there’s evidence wearing a helmet will actually provide effective protection
.Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
But, unlike with masks, there’s evidence a helmet will actually provide effective protection
Not really any useful protection while instructing on an artificial wall, though, as there's not really any scope for anything to fall on your head.
I assumed it was in case you fell awkwardly (a la cycle helmets).
If the helmets don’t provide effective protection, why do the other instructors ask people to wear them?! There’s definitely an interesting parallel with masks there...
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