UK face coverings discussion

[MDB1images]

Are masks compulsory in the Englland and Scotland parliament's for the MP's?

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Are masks compulsory in the Englland and Scotland parliament's for the MP's?

No.

 

[Richard Scott]

I've come to the conclusion that masks do seem to give you a false sense of security. Whilst I'm not bothered about the virus I did respect social distancing as much for others as myself. Now with the masks issue and having done a bit of travelling recently necessitating wearing of a mask your brain does seem to tell you distancing no longer needed. This is despite me thinking masks have negligible benefit. They do seem to make you feel 'safe' so may actually cause more harm than good?

 

[island]

It seems to me that the cause is the low prevalence of the virus at minute, so it would be the same regardless.

 

[Richard Scott]

It seems to me that the cause is the low prevalence of the virus at minute, so it would be the same regardless.

Suppose that could be a factor too, or maybe people have grown tired of it?

 

[Bantamzen]

I had an interesting conversation with someone who works at a local hospital yesterday. It seems at least in our local trust that there is a growing internal consensus that face coverings do little good, and indeed incorrect use could likely be a greater source of infection. Also there is growing opinion that the idea of aerosol transmission through regular breathing, talking etc is unlikely to be a major source, with surface contact & people coughing / sneezing being thought to much more likely the major source. Just as was thought right back at the beginning. All anecdotal I know, but nonetheless interesting to hear healthcare staff questioning the consensus.

Also there is apparently growing concern over the amount of PPE currently in use, and more importantly being discarded. With masks & visors now being used in unprecedented numbers a vast amount of unrecyclable(?) decarded equipment is being created. Not exactly great for the environment, but also not great for budgets already stretched.

 

[jumble]

Must admit I wish I'd see more of that here, like used to be the case. We seem overly obsessed with the rights and welfare of people committing a criminal offence, be that non-wearing of masks (unless exempt) or fare-dodging. Well, how about if you commit a criminal offence your rights and welfare aren't all that important? I'm very much in support of "off at the next station even if it's Cheddington or Altnabreac" myself, and following guards warned not to let them on. A long walk would concentrate minds.

This presupposes that the thrower off has enough common sense to be sure the person they eject is not vulnerable which is a big assumption from some of the situations highlighted on here
Imagine for a moment that someone who has the same moral compass as TIL has been given the responsibility for enforcement !
If the guard gets it wrong there would be a storm of negative publicity and hopefully some expensive court action to concentrate the mind.

 

[Richard Scott]

This presupposes that the thrower off has enough common sense to be sure the person they eject is not vulnerable which is a big assumption from some of the situations highlighted on here
Imagine for a moment that someone who has the same moral compass as TIL has been given the responsibility for enforcement !
If the guard gets it wrong there would be a storm of negative publicity and hopefully some expensive court action to concentrate the mind.

In addition guard could lose their job, not sure they want to take that risk.

 

[jumble]

It is, however, an extremely selfish act not to do so. If isolating would be a problem for your life (e.g. you couldn't work), you need to take action to minimise that risk. Just like someone for whom driving is their livelihood needs to take special care not to commit any driving offences, or someone for whom drug testing is part of their job needs to take special care to ensure they aren't exposed to drugs (even passively).

You have remarkable confidence in Dido Harding
Her track record says that Track and Trace may very well become a total shambles
Are you aware that if you are phoned then you have no idea if the call is genuine as there is no way of phoning back and the CLI is trivial to spoof?
We are warned about this kind of thing by our banks all the time.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

This presupposes that the thrower off has enough common sense to be sure the person they eject is not vulnerable which is a big assumption from some of the situations highlighted on here
Imagine for a moment that someone who has the same moral compass as TIL has been given the responsibility for enforcement !
If the guard gets it wrong there would be a storm of negative publicity and hopefully some expensive court action to concentrate the mind.

And how exactly do you maintain social distancing when you ‘throw someone off’?

 

[duncanp]

I had an interesting conversation with someone who works at a local hospital yesterday. It seems at least in our local trust that there is a growing internal consensus that face coverings do little good, and indeed incorrect use could likely be a greater source of infection. Also there is growing opinion that the idea of aerosol transmission through regular breathing, talking etc is unlikely to be a major source, with surface contact & people coughing / sneezing being thought to much more likely the major source. Just as was thought right back at the beginning. All anecdotal I know, but nonetheless interesting to hear healthcare staff questioning the consensus.

Also there is apparently growing concern over the amount of PPE currently in use, and more importantly being discarded. With masks & visors now being used in unprecedented numbers a vast amount of unrecyclable(?) decarded equipment is being created. Not exactly great for the environment, but also not great for budgets already stretched.

If healthcare staff are questioning whether masks do any good, you wonder exactly what is the point of the wretched things.

Let's just hope that the compulsory wearing of masks in shopping centres and on public transport is dropped soon.

 

[Wuffle]

The mortality rates of covid19 have been overstated by poor data capture by government bodies and hysterical reporting by the mass media
This analysis by an organisation shows a lethality between 0.1% and 0.3% which is in the range of a severe influenza
(https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/)

In the season 2017/2018 there over 50,000 excess deaths and yet the hysteria levels didn't rise and none of the measures currently in force were introduced

Their study on face masks is also indicating that there is little or no evidence of the effectiveness of them

(https://swprs.org/face-masks-evidence/)


As regards conspiracy theories just search Schwab and NWO
(https://www.redstate.com/heartlandi...attempt-to-implement-radical-new-world-order/)

There may or may not be some truth there but it's telling that western liberal democracies became near totalitarian dystopian states all because of a severe dose of a flu like virus

gets tin-foil hat

 

[Bantamzen]

The mortality rates of covid19 have been overstated by poor data capture by government bodies and hysterical reporting by the mass media
This analysis by an organisation shows a lethality between 0.1% and 0.3% which is in the range of a severe influenza
(https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/)

In the season 2017/2018 there over 50,000 excess deaths and yet the hysteria levels didn't rise and none of the measures currently in force were introduced

Their study on face masks is also indicating that there is little or no evidence of the effectiveness of them

(https://swprs.org/face-masks-evidence/)


As regards conspiracy theories just search Schwab and NWO
(https://www.redstate.com/heartlandinstitute/2020/07/01/wef’s-great-reset-is-attempt-to-implement-radical-new-world-order/)

There may or may not be some truth there but it's telling that western liberal democracies became near totalitarian dystopian states all because of a severe dose of a flu like virus

gets tin-foil hat

From that initial link, I picked up on this:

In most places, the risk of death for the general population of school and working age is in the range of a daily car ride to work. The risk was initially overestimated because many people with only mild or no symptoms were not taken into account.

So I'm calling it, we need a car lockdown immediately....

 

[Reliablebeam]

I hate referencing the Mail but this has appeared:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ff-not-wearing-masks-knocked-unconscious.html

Man who was haranguing rail staff for not wearing face masks at busy London station is knocked unconscious by pram-pushing passerby – who was also bare-faced

• A passenger was knocked unconscious at Clapham Junction railway station
• Footage shows him arguing with staff before another passenger attacks him

South Western Railway said the member of staff who was not wearing a mask had a medical exemption.

Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere

 

[Bletchleyite]

I hope the assaulter is convicted of both assault and given a fixed penalty for not wearing a mask (unless exempt). It is totally unacceptable to escalate to physical violence in a situation other than in defence of already-used violence or serious physical threat, however annoying.

(And I do agree with him on staff; the law should include them as well, subject to the same legal exemptions - though the way to express disquiet on that is formal complaints to TOCs and via your MP, not abusing staff which is also never acceptable)

 

[bramling]

I hope the assaulter is convicted of both assault and given a fixed penalty for not wearing a mask (unless exempt). It is totally unacceptable to escalate to physical violence in a situation other than in defence of already-used violence or serious physical threat, however annoying.

(And I do agree with him on staff; the law should include them as well, subject to the same legal exemptions - though the way to express disquiet on that is formal complaints to TOCs and via your MP, not abusing staff which is also never acceptable)

I don’t get why you keep going on about staff not wearing masks. It’s already been explained (by people who actually work in the workplace in question) that using a mask correctly is very difficult for staff working in an active railway environment. I for one am simply not prepared to do it. Wearing a mask is not in my contract, and I’ve already made it clear that I refuse on the grounds of health and safety. Mine and my colleagues services are very much in demand at the moment, so realistically it’s not going to happen.

Very easy for people working from home or on furlough to start making grand pronouncements on what (they think) should happen in other people’s workplaces...

The whole masks thing is a massive nuisance just to pacify a small coterie of maskophiles. We managed nicely for several months without, presumably whilst all the mask brigade were busy boarding themselves up in their homes!

 

[DB]

Very easy for people working from home or on furlough to start making grand pronouncements on what (they think) should happen in other people’s workplaces...

Quite. We have seen a massive outbreak of sanctimoniousnes over the past few months!

 

[trainophile]

I have just watched a woman board the Avanti I’m on, take out some sort of wipe and vigorously wipe down the table, armrests, even window ledge and is now sitting there with a mask under her chin. Farcical.

I realised recently that wearing a mask reminds me of when I was a kid and had bubblegum explode on my face!

 

[bramling]

I have just watched a woman board the Avanti I’m on, take out some sort of wipe and vigorously wipe down the table, armrests, even window ledge and is now sitting there with a mask under her chin. Farcical.

I realised recently that wearing a mask reminds me of when I was a kid and had bubblegum explode on my face!

Not necessarily such a bad thing. Cleaning down the table is probably more use than wearing a mask, and wearing it round the chin simply says “going through the motions simply to tick the box”. So she’s taking the trouble to do the bit which might be of value, and paying lip service to the bit which isn’t.

I was tending to do some wiping down with Dettol when using trains, simply as it meant then not having to be too bothered about touching the table top, which is hard to avoid. In theory all this stuff is treated with that Zoono which is supposed to remain effective.

 

[trainophile]

Must admit that recently the in service table cleaning has become a bit cursory. Understandable when the table is in use but even empty ones just get a quick wipe down the middle.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Aug 2020 ==

Just seen on Twitter (sorry can’t post link on phone but it’s on Transport for Wales feed) that last week 681 people were refused travel on TfW for not wearing a face covering. Doesn’t add much to their already low esteem.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Aug 2020 ==


Text added at request of Admin:

Last week 681 passengers were refused travel for not complying with the rules.

@BTPWales
and our security team will continue to engage, educate and encourage.

Help us in the fight against Covid-19 - Please wear a face covering.




Brilliant Avanti announcement just now... “a reminder that face coverings are compulsory unless you’re exempt, or eating your scran or drinking your juice”.

 

[packermac]

Must admit that recently the in service table cleaning has become a bit cursory. Understandable when the table is in use but even empty ones just get a quick wipe down the middle.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Aug 2020 ==

Just seen on Twitter (sorry can’t post link on phone but it’s on Transport for Wales feed) that last week 681 people were refused travel on TfW for not wearing a face covering. Doesn’t add much to their already low esteem.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Aug 2020 ==

Brilliant Avanti announcement just now... “a reminder that face coverings are compulsory unless you’re exempt, or eating your scran or drinking your juice”.

They will be following the Welsh Assembly rules which are way different to England. So regardless to what we think of TfW it will always be a high figure until their law changes.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

(Yes I know, they may change, but knowing Stugeon they more than likely will)

Rules on face coverings in schools may change in ‘near future’, Sturgeon says - The Courier

Pupils may have to wear face coverings in schools in the “near future”, Nicola Sturgeon has said.

www.thecourier.co.uk

Rules on face coverings in schools may change in ‘near future’, Sturgeon says

Pupils may have to wear face coverings in schools in the “near future”, Nicola Sturgeon has said.

Children are not currently required to wear masks in school but the First Minister said this guidance “may well” be updated after a meeting on Friday.

She was responding to a question from Scottish Greens co-leader Patrick Harvie at First Minister’s Questions on Thursday.

Mr Harvie said teachers and parents had concerns about safety, saying “for schools to remain open they need to remain safe”.

Seems to be a mixed bag of responses on The Courier Facebook page, with some parents claiming they'll take their kids out of school if they have to wear them and others claiming that they (i.e. the parents) will "feel" so much "safer" if it goes ahead.

 

[DB]

(Yes I know, they may change, but knowing Stugeon they more than likely will)

Rules on face coverings in schools may change in ‘near future’, Sturgeon says - The Courier

Pupils may have to wear face coverings in schools in the “near future”, Nicola Sturgeon has said.

www.thecourier.co.uk

Seems to be a mixed bag of responses on The Courier Facebook page, with some parents claiming they'll take their kids out of school if they have to wear them and others claiming that they (i.e. the parents) will "feel" so much "safer" if it goes ahead.

Never mind about evidence, eh! Provided some unspecified number of people "feel safer" it doesn't matter whether it actually has any effect, or whether it makes others feel completely excluded!

 

[Huntergreed]

(Yes I know, they may change, but knowing Stugeon they more than likely will)

Rules on face coverings in schools may change in ‘near future’, Sturgeon says - The Courier

Pupils may have to wear face coverings in schools in the “near future”, Nicola Sturgeon has said.

www.thecourier.co.uk

Seems to be a mixed bag of responses on The Courier Facebook page, with some parents claiming they'll take their kids out of school if they have to wear them and others claiming that they (i.e. the parents) will "feel" so much "safer" if it goes ahead.

I’ll be extremely angry and writing to my MSP if this goes through, to allow children to go back to normal schooling and then introduce this type of draconian measure which has no proven benefit is just unacceptable.

 

[MikeWM]

I’ll be extremely angry and writing to my MSP if this goes through, to allow children to go back to normal schooling and then introduce this type of draconian measure which has no proven benefit is just unacceptable.

As I said recently, it seems to be the standard technique they're now using to demoralise us even further. Allow things to reopen in a vaguely normal way, and then impose masks a few weeks later (see : public transport, shops, cinemas, etc.)

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Seems to be standard procedure.

Get parents to send their kids to school, phew a relief from home schooling, then introduce face-coverings a few weeks later, might as well comply now the kids have got used to being at school.

The same for getting people back to work in offices etc.

Inch by inch the noose tightens.

I’ll be extremely angry and writing to my MSP if this goes through, to allow children to go back to normal schooling and then introduce this type of draconian measure which has no proven benefit is just unacceptable.

What was previously inconceivable is the new normal.

 

[adc82140]

What is so special about Scottish 5-11 years old that sets them apart from children from other countries? Everywhere else under 12s are not required to wear a mask, yet in Scotland it's the under 5s.

 

[Journeyman]

What is so special about Scottish 5-11 years old that sets them apart from children from other countries? Everywhere else under 12s are not required to wear a mask, yet in Scotland it's the under 5s.

It's a bit ridiculous, because in Scotland under 12s are now not required to social distance at all.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's a bit ridiculous, because in Scotland under 12s are now not required to social distance at all.

Masks may be seen as mitigation to the small but nonzero risk that causes.

Kids will quite happily wear masks, particularly if they can choose or even design their own. It's adults who are hand-wringing about it (as ever). Kids actually like wearing PPE - they think putting a helmet on to go climbing or whatever is cool. They'll do what they are asked and get on with their day.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Kids will quite happily wear masks, particularly if they can choose or even design their own. It's adults who are hand-wringing about it (as ever). Kids actually like wearing PPE - they think putting a helmet on to go climbing or whatever is cool. They'll do what they are asked and get on with their day.

That's not an excuse for why they should have to wear one. By all means wear one if they want, but they should not be forced to. It will make marginal difference.

Teenagers will be the issue - and it's them that are getting targeted for "not social distancing at lunchtime" and "not having to wear masks in school". Easy target I suppose.