can public transport ever recover from COVID-19

[Nicholas Lewis]

I agree with that - I'm sure it's true - but once you get to the point that your risk comes from circulated air not proximity to the infected individual, it probably doesn't make much difference where you are in the coach - you're breathing the same recirculated air from 3 seats away and at the far end of the coach.

Whats frustrating about this disease and railway travel is how slow the industry has been to understand the level of risk The airline industry were on the front foot from the outset funding investigations and producing supporting blurb so they could promote safe travel and people are much closer together than on a train. The TOCs are happy to sit under the government umbrella now with no incentive to drive up travel I bet they would have had a different attitude without EMAs being in place.

 

[Scrotnig]

Whats frustrating about this disease and railway travel is how slow the industry has been to understand the level of risk The airline industry were on the front foot from the outset funding investigations and producing supporting blurb so they could promote safe travel and people are much closer together than on a train. The TOCs are happy to sit under the government umbrella now with no incentive to drive up travel I bet they would have had a different attitude with EMAs being in place.

The solution will turn out to be the same as it will be for many other issues in the country at the moment - stop the free money!

 

[WestRiding]

After reading the latest issue of Rail, Mr Wolmar is all doom and gloom about the railway, sighting closures etc. Will the passengers ever come back after Project Fear is complete? The trains are still quiet and the service levels are unsustainable, carrying only air around the country. I dont see an end to this. Opinions?

 

[swt_passenger]

I think this might have already been done here:

Christian Wolmar's 'J'accuse' thunderer

Readers of Rail magazine will already have read it, but well known commentator Christian Wolmar penned a blistering attack on the rail industry in a recent column now available on his website. Rail 909: J’Accuse – the culprits wrecking the rail industry A letter to Boris Johnson, Prime...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Clayton]

I’m a positive optimistic person and I’m sure that passengers will come back, but there may be new travel patterns with less commuting and more journeys at odd times. Obviously if no one uses the trains some minor lines will be suspended but they won’t be ripped up. However I certainly don’t feel like going anywhere while new cases are still so high. Once we’re comfortably below 500 a day I’ll go to London again.

 

[talldave]

I wonder if the traditional season ticket is dead? Or perhaps to put it more accurately, it's not what people are going to need if they're only in the office one or two days a week. An ITSO carnet product is what's really needed. Has the industry has been working on that whilst not running so many trains lately?

 

[AdamWW]

I wonder if the traditional season ticket is dead? Or perhaps to put it more accurately, it's not what people are going to need if they're only in the office one or two days a week. An ITSO carnet product is what's really needed. Has the industry has been working on that whilst not running so many trains lately?

TFW has had a mobile-based 'carnet' system running for a while.
Not a huge discount on return tickets, but you do get 10 singles to be used either way.

I personally don't like mobile tickets because I don't trust any app to not mysteriously stop working at an unfortunate moment.

 

[F Great Eastern]

There are some local authorities now talking about segregating students and adults on service routes which call at schools and colleges because they want to keep students for schools and colleges in their own bubbles.

The end result appears to be that some currently timetabled buses on regular routes may end up becoming student only buses and will refuse non student passengers which will mean a frequency cut at peak times for everyone else.

There has been the idea floated that such timetabled departures could run one student bus and one regular passenger bus at the same time to stop the frequency cuts to regular users, but of course, nobody wants to pay for that.

 

[Huntergreed]

There are some local authorities now talking about segregating students and adults on service routes which call at schools and colleges because they want to keep students for schools and colleges in their own bubbles.

The end result appears to be that some currently timetabled buses on regular routes may end up becoming student only buses and will refuse non student passengers which will mean a frequency cut at peak times for everyone else.

There has been the idea floated that such timetabled departures could run one student bus and one regular passenger bus at the same time to stop the frequency cuts to regular users, but of course, nobody wants to pay for that.

This has happened in Scotland. One of the morning Oban trains has been designated “pupils only”, and any adults are told to alight early and catch a replacement bus

 

[DB]

There has been the idea floated that such timetabled departures could run one student bus and one regular passenger bus at the same time to stop the frequency cuts to regular users, but of course, nobody wants to pay for that.

And where would the extra buses / drivers come from?

 

[F Great Eastern]

And where would the extra buses / drivers come from?

That is what the bus operators have told the local authorities and central government that somebody needs to pay for the staff, vehicles and the costs of doing so. Of course, the authorities and the government are tone deaf to that.

There's also the fact that closing one peak bus to adults, will push said adults to other peak buses which might not have the space for them because of the fact their capacity is limited to 50% by COVID-19 reduced passenger capacities.

 

[AdamWW]

This has happened in Scotland. One of the morning Oban trains has been designated “pupils only”, and any adults are told to alight early and catch a replacement bus

This has happened pre-Covid, at least to the extent of bus routes having a service missed out at school time so the bus (and driver) can cover school services.

 

[Richard Scott]

Been to Liverpool and Leeds over past few days. Merseyrail quite busy although noticed no real rush hour. Lots of leisure travellers, though. Trains through Leeds busy today and many of Northern's out of use seats sat in and TPE window only seats also ignored due to loadings. Quite encouraged by usage. TfW take note!

 

[johnnychips]

Full and some standing on the 1221 Doncaster to Sheffield today. Of course on this line XC have mostly withdrawn their hourly service and Northern have reduced the stopper from half-hourly to hourly.

 

[birchesgreen]

Lunchtime Leicester-Birmingham train was over half-full yesterday, busiest train i've been on since March.

Mind you this train pre-pandemic would have made a sardine can look roomy.

 

[yorksrob]

I agree with that - I'm sure it's true - but once you get to the point that your risk comes from circulated air not proximity to the infected individual, it probably doesn't make much difference where you are in the coach - you're breathing the same recirculated air from 3 seats away and at the far end of the coach.

But at that stage, it seems to be a very low risk of catching it anyway.

 

[Jamiescott1]

There are some local authorities now talking about segregating students and adults on service routes which call at schools and colleges because they want to keep students for schools and colleges in their own bubbles.

The end result appears to be that some currently timetabled buses on regular routes may end up becoming student only

The problem with that is that schools are meant to have year groups in bubbles. So mixing all years together on school transport won't achieve that.

 

[DB]

The problem with that is that schools are meant to have year groups in bubbles. So mixing all years together on school transport won't achieve that.

But mixing them on buses is unavoidable. Whoever came up with this idea of segregating them into year groups clearly doesn't understand the reality.

Also, many if them will live with siblings who are in other year groups, or have friends in other year groups who they see out of school.

It's all completely pointless and seemingly designed to pander to paranoid parents.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Full and some standing on the 1221 Doncaster to Sheffield today. Of course on this line XC have mostly withdrawn their hourly service and Northern have reduced the stopper from half-hourly to hourly.

Lunchtime Leicester-Birmingham train was over half-full yesterday, busiest train i've been on since March.

Mind you this train pre-pandemic would have made a sardine can look roomy.

Both of these routes would be pretty empty on a normal timetable - COVID timetables mean everybody is packing on to what is actually operating.

 

[birchesgreen]

Both of these routes would be pretty empty on a normal timetable - COVID timetables mean everybody is packing on to what is actually operating.

Don't think so, seemed to be the same frequency as before covid to me, they certainly would not be empty on a normal timetable lol, have you EVER tried to get a train from Nuneaton to New Street on a saturday afternoon?!

 

[F Great Eastern]

This has happened pre-Covid, at least to the extent of bus routes having a service missed out at school time so the bus (and driver) can cover school services.

I was talking about regular service runs that happen to take commuters to work and take students to college as the place of education was on a regular service run rather than a dedicated school service.

It seems that services like this are going to become student only and commuters who use them are going to be out of luck and will have to get an earlier bus which may not have the capacity to take them because of them being banned from the normal bus they take.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

It's all completely pointless and seemingly designed to pander to paranoid parents.

I found 3 particularly amusing comments on the local rag's Facebook page, when they reported that the school transport provider for a local school was mandating face coverings - even though they're not required.

This transport provider primarily provides transport for the kids to go to/from the playing fields (directly from the school), so will be with their own year group only.

All three of these comments were written to the effect of "OMG I feel so much safer now that they have to wear masks on the PE buses".

 

[Bletchleyite]

And where would the extra buses / drivers come from?

There are a lot of tourist coaches not being used for tourists at the moment. While this wouldn't work with PSVAR for open public services it does for non-public school services. It would just need a long enough contract to make de-SORNing and de-furloughing viable.

 

[geoffk]

Still notices on Scotrail TVMs saying essential travel only . I was at Glasgow Central and they may of stopped the NR facemask and ' stories' announcements, as i didnt hear them.

I was on two Scotrail services yesterday, noticed that certain pairs of airline seats had there tables in the down position, maybe to block out seats for social distancing?

I was at Exeter St. Davids on Thursday 13th and there was still an "essential journeys only" notice outside. I only travelled to St.James Park and spent most of the day on buses as I'm looking to move house down there and this was a good way of getting to know the city. Buses looked fairly busy but I don't know what pre-Covid loadings were like. I wasn't there in the pm peak. The M6/M5 however seemed as busy as ever.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Don't think so, seemed to be the same frequency as before covid to me, they certainly would not be empty on a normal timetable lol, have you EVER tried to get a train from Nuneaton to New Street on a saturday afternoon?!

Pardon my ignorance: hasn't Leicester to Birmingham been reduced from half-hourly to hourly under COVID?

 

[birchesgreen]

Pardon my ignorance: hasn't Leicester to Birmingham been reduced from half-hourly to hourly under COVID?

Its possible, pre-covid world seems a bit of a blur nowadays

 

[Jamesrob637]

Its possible, pre-covid world seems a bit of a blur nowadays

It'll be nigh on six months since the demise of rail travel, by the time TOCs introduce their next increase in four weeks' time. Will this be the decider?

 

[Ken H]

I know the answer to this will be different for each class of train

but aircon usually dumps a proportion of air outside and recirculates the rest to save energy. Is this possible to change on trains so no air is recirculated? and will aircon systems cope?

 

[squizzler]

I wonder if spotting the last vestiges of coronavirus signage will be like spotting the last vestiges of NSE in the future. Someone mentioned that in jest, but increasingly I can imagine someone stumbling across a poster in the depths of some small town bus station in twenty years time!

Hopefully public transport will have recovered and even be thriving by then!

I imagine that they will be pinched by collectors eventually. I hope the various TOC's spare stock of such materials (including 'seat out of use' indicators and all the other social distancing paraphernalia) will be donated to heritage railways for future 'covid galas'!

 

[Bikeman78]

Been to Liverpool and Leeds over past few days. Merseyrail quite busy although noticed no real rush hour. Lots of leisure travellers, though. Trains through Leeds busy today and many of Northern's out of use seats sat in and TPE window only seats also ignored due to loadings. Quite encouraged by usage. TfW take note!

Loadings out of Liverpool Street have picked up quite a lot. I was surprised how busy the Shenfield stoppers are in the evening.