UK face coverings discussion

[nlogax]

Dr Vernon Coleman has warned, months ago on his YouTube videos, that Government won’t be satisfied until we’re all subjected to being masked all day, every day. People decried him as being absurd, but it is government's reaction to this crisis that is, truly, absurd.

Please let's not attach credence to anything coming from Vernon Coleman. For as long as anyone can remember he's played to his audiences' worst fears. Conspiracy theorists lap his stuff up.

 

[A Challenge]

Please let's not attach credence to anything coming from Vernon Coleman. For as long as anyone can remember he's played to his audiences' worst fears. Conspiracy theorists lap his stuff up.

Be that as it may, there is a lot of evidence and it is happening around the world (I immediately think of Paris and Melbourne), and judging by @Puffing Devil's last post, he thinks it's a good idea.

 

[AdamWW]

Sorry but that's absurd. It's not Ebola! I would have zero qualms about me or any of my family infecting each other.

I imagine most people feel like that, unless they live with someone particularly vulnurable.

But.....if a large part of transmission is happening within the home, then one of the most important measures to reduce spread may be indeed to reduce the chance of family members infecting each other. It might do a lot more good than perspex screens between tables in restaurants and masks in supermarkets.

China solved this problem of course by taking anyone without a positive test out of their homes until they could test negative again.

 

[talldave]

China solved this problem of course by taking anyone without a positive test out of their homes until they could test negative again.

i don't think that's quite right, but another question: if you've had it, isn't wearing a mask pointless even if you believe the pro-mask argument?

 

[adc82140]

I imagine most people feel like that, unless they live with someone particularly vulnurable.

But.....if a large part of transmission is happening within the home, then one of the most important measures to reduce spread may be indeed to reduce the chance of family members infecting each other. It might do a lot more good than perspex screens between tables in restaurants and masks in supermarkets.

China solved this problem of course by taking anyone without a positive test out of their homes until they could test negative again.

I'd say this would be an invasion of privacy too far, unenforceable, and the government know that. Don't forget that as well as the epidemiologists, there are behavioural scientists and criminologists feeding the government with advice too. Pandemic or no pandemic, the Conservatives are still interested in getting re elected, and by nature they are libertarian.

 

[Yew]

Face Masks Really Do Matter. The Scientific Evidence Is Growing



I understand this thread is very much an anti-mask echo chamber, though the body of evidence is growing, and will continue to grow as research continues. I look forward to returning to this thread in six months review many of the comments and views in the light of new evidence and the progression of the pandemic. Meanwhile, I'm not investing any more of my time.

Most of the new papers I've seen have been meta-analyses that seem to omit significant inconveniences that do not meet the authors pro-mask confirmation bias.

 

[nlogax]

Be that as it may, there is a lot of evidence and it is happening around the world (I immediately think of Paris and Melbourne), and judging by @Puffing Devil's last post, he thinks it's a good idea.

Masks within the home are pretty pointless apart situations similar to those @Bletchleyite outlined above. Wearing a mask in public places to reduce risk of asymptomatic transmission is one way to keep this knocked on the head until a vaccine comes along. As @Puffing Devil posted above the science supports it and if wearing one means continuing to get on with our lives in public spaces then fine, I'll do it.

I really don't care if people don't like masks. I do care if people hang on the words of crackpot conspiracy theorists and treat them as if they're gospel. There's been too much of that guff going around in the last couple of decades. Point of note; Vernon Coleman doesn't rail against masks, he also rails against vaccines. Now that's awkward.

 

[A Challenge]

I really don't care if people don't like masks. I do care if people hang on the words of crackpot conspiracy theorists and treat them as if they're gospel. There's been too much of that guff going around in the last couple of decades. Point of note; Vernon Coleman doesn't rail against masks, he also rails against vaccines. Now that's awkward.

I had realised about the fact that masks will be being worn everywhere (despite when I pointed it out to a friend on Saturday that they said it wouldn't ever happen) before I saw that post about Vernon Coleman, so I'm saying he may have a point, even if he is a conspiracy theorist and frankly the last thing we need at the moment is people who are anti-vaccine being correct on anything.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I had realised about the fact that masks will be being worn everywhere (despite when I pointed it out to a friend on Saturday that they said it wouldn't ever happen) before I saw that post about Vernon Coleman, so I'm saying he may have a point, even if he is a conspiracy theorist and frankly the last thing we need at the moment is people who are anti-vaccine being correct on anything.

People assume that because I mentioned Colemans’s predictions on masks that I agree with everything he spouts! I read a lot of viewpoints on the whole issues around coronavirus; I don’t blindly lap-up everything the media (especially the BBC) tell me, without question or natural curiosity.
I’m sure the lone voices that centuries ago expressed the minority view that the earth was round were similarly ridiculed. Didn’t make them wrong, though. He will be proved right about this obsession with face-coverings, sadly

 

[AdamWW]

i don't think that's quite right, but another question: if you've had it, isn't wearing a mask pointless even if you believe the pro-mask argument?

OK it looks as if I was saying this was done all across China, which wasn't what I meant. But I believe in Wuhan during the worst of it once you had a positive diagnoisis you didn't go home until tested negative.

Anyway I thought the suggestion here was that if one household member had Covid-19 and was (as advised by the government) doing all they could to prevent themselves from infecting other household members, that wearing a mask could help if they had to come into close proximity with the rest of the household.

I'd say this would be an invasion of privacy too far, unenforceable, and the government know that. Don't forget that as well as the epidemiologists, there are behavioural scientists and criminologists feeding the government with advice too. Pandemic or no pandemic, the Conservatives are still interested in getting re elected, and by nature they are libertarian.

I was not advocating it here. And while SAGE is indeed providing behavoural as well as epidemiological input, I suspect the government could work out for themselves how well this would go down.

 

[High Dyke]

are they not now saying that unless it is made of 3 layers, then it is of not much use? so imagine a scarf / bandana is worn just to meet the 'regulalation'

If it's the blue/white type of mask then they can go shove that in the fruit & veg! As previously posted, I wore one for a ten minute visit to M&S, but I'm not wearing that type again. Damned irritating! I have an alternative arrangement that meets the regulation stipulated.

 

[nlogax]

I’m sure the lone voices that centuries ago expressed the minority view that the earth was round were similarly ridiculed. Didn’t make them wrong, though. He will be proved right about this obsession with face-coverings, sadly

If you want to compare those who used science and real world observations to make a hypothesis about the shape of the planet with an old man raging against the modern world and using YouTube to sell his dangerous and daft theories then ok, go right ahead..

 

[Bletchleyite]

If it's the blue/white type of mask then they can go shove that in the fruit & veg! As previously posted, I wore one for a ten minute visit to M&S, but I'm not wearing that type again. Damned irritating! I have an alternative arrangement that meets the regulation stipulated.

It's worth trying a fitted multi-layer fabric mask, much more comfortable than the disposable blue/white ones.

 

[High Dyke]

It's worth trying a fitted multi-layer fabric mask, much more comfortable than the disposable blue/white ones.

Are they the type that make you look like you're wearing a nosebag?

 

[trebor79]

If it's the blue/white type of mask then they can go shove that in the fruit & veg! As previously posted, I wore one for a ten minute visit to M&S, but I'm not wearing that type again. Damned irritating! I have an alternative arrangement that meets the regulation stipulated.

Please share. I haven't found anything both bearable and practical yet.

 

[A Challenge]

A word of warning - the reusable face masks I've been wearing appear to wash alright, but the one that got tumble dried is now even more uncomfortable than I find masks anyway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are they the type that make you look like you're wearing a nosebag?

A what?

A word of warning - the reusable face masks I've been wearing appear to wash alright, but the one that got tumble dried is now even more uncomfortable than I find masks anyway.

Yes, tumble drying shrinks pretty much all fabric very slightly (I've found for example that since I've owned one I've had to go up one size in socks because of this) so if the mask was well fitted it'll be too tight once tumble dried. They don't take long to dry just placed on a kitchen worksurface or radiator, so no need to tumble dry them.

 

[A Challenge]

Yes, tumble drying shrinks pretty much all fabric very slightly (I've found for example that since I've owned one I've had to go up one size in socks because of this) so if the mask was well fitted it'll be too tight once tumble dried. They don't take long to dry just placed on a kitchen worksurface or radiator, so no need to tumble dry them.

Is there any way you know of getting the mask back into a wearable state?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is there any way you know of getting the mask back into a wearable state?

Unfortunately not. Once tumble drying has shrunk fabric it stays shrunk.

 

[High Dyke]

Please share. I haven't found anything both bearable and practical yet.

I have some cotton reusable masks, but can't wear them for sustained periods of time. My normal choice is adapting a neck warmer - turned inside out, folded in half and a form of filter can then be inserted in the fold. For a quick visit in a shop, then the neck warmer pulled up over my nose and mouth suffices.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have some cotton reusable masks, but can't wear them for sustained periods of time. My normal choice is adapting a neck warmer - turned inside out, folded in half and a form of filter can then be inserted in the fold. For a quick visit in a shop, then the neck warmer pulled up over my nose and mouth suffices.

Interestingly I find I really can't be doing with that, I was originally using a Buff. Two problems, one is that the fabric redirects the sound of breathing into my ears (which feels claustrophobic), and also because they're relatively tight (unlike a properly fitted fabric mask) they tend to slip down as I move my mouth to talk.

 

[High Dyke]

A what?

What they put on a horse at feeding time. The masks have a pronounced bulge to them.

Interestingly I find I really can't be doing with that, I was originally using a Buff. Two problems, one is that the fabric redirects the sound of breathing into my ears (which feels claustrophobic), and also because they're relatively tight (unlike a properly fitted fabric mask) they tend to slip down as I move my mouth to talk.

At the end of the day It's down to what suits an individual. Whatever I wear I suffer 'foggy glasses syndrome' because of the way I breathe. The wife offered me one of her corporate workwear masks, but I've yet to take her up on the offer; they're more important for her on-train role.

 

[Bletchleyite]

At the end of the day It's down to what suits an individual

Agreed. I'd also add to that if you don't like one type of mask try another, you might find one that is workable.

 

[ainsworth74]

Indeed but that's a long way from 'everyone in your household should wear one at all times' which is what's being advocated.

Advocated by who? I've heard this conspiracy theory several times now on the Forum I've yet to see it anywhere else!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Advocated by who? I've heard this conspiracy theory several times now on the Forum I've yet to see it anywhere else!

Even as someone who is a mask advocate I think that is ridiculous. What we might be more likely to see is an outdoor requirement where 2m can't be maintained (e.g. when visiting outdoor markets), and I don't even support that based on weak evidence of outdoor spread.

 

[A Challenge]

Even as someone who is a mask advocate I think that is ridiculous. What we might be more likely to see is an outdoor requirement where 2m can't be maintained, and I don't even support that based on weak evidence of outdoor spread.

I think that mask compliance may well go down if they mandate masks outside as there will be people who can cope with wearing one in a shop for a short time but if they have to wear it from leaving home to arriving back then they may well decide that putting a mask on to go in the shop isn't worth it when it is compulsory outside as well.

 

[adc82140]

The evidence for outdoor mask wearing ranges from shaky to nonexistent. I don't think anyone is suggesting wearing one when out for a country walk, or walking to your car etc, and our police have no resources to enforce such things. However I could see them making face coverings mandatory in crowded outside places, like markets or queues.

 

[AdamWW]

The evidence for outdoor mask wearing ranges from shaky to nonexistent. I don't think anyone is suggesting wearing one when out for a country walk, or walking to your car etc, and our police have no resources to enforce such things. However I could see them making face coverings mandatory in crowded outside places, like markets or queues.

And I suspect not a lot of enthusiasm to do so either.

I would say that we urgently need to do some studies to find out how much masks actually help when used in the way they currently are being used, except that I can't figure out how to actually do anything useful, particularly given that any large scale trial of not wearing masks is going to undermine the message the government wants to give.

 

[westv]

One thing I have noticed with face coverings is that they cut off some of your lower peripheral vision so I keep finding myself having to look down to make up for it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One thing I have noticed with face coverings is that they cut off some of your lower peripheral vision so I keep finding myself having to look down to make up for it.

Same for me, whether it does or not depends on how high up your nose is. That's why I equated it elsewhere to a new pair of glasses that are a different shape from your old ones - you do get used to it over time.