Face coverings compulsory on public transport in England from 15 June

[AM9]

It may have escaped your attention, but the economy just took a 20.4% hit in April, and the rest of Q1 isn't likely to look much better. The damage has already been done, and frankly the more that people are discouraged from using public transport, the deeper that damage will be. Face coverings are little more than a placebo for the public, a measure that applied so late in the day that it is increasingly unlikely to have any effect on a spread already rapidly diminishing. At this rate it will be about as effective in helping the NHS as standing outside our houses banging pots.

So says an expert.

 

[WM Bus]

Noticed a full list of exemptions on NX Bus site. Not seen this anywhere else before:

https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/2020-Files/COVID19-assets/facecovering.pdf

Based on the guidance we know currently, customers with the following health and non-visible conditions do not need to wear a face covering:

1. Breathing difficulties and other respiratory conditions.

2. Conditions effecting dexterity, meaning you are not able to put on a face covering.

3. Mental health conditions such as anxiety or panic disorders.

4. Other non-visible disabilities such as autism.

5. Cognitive impairments, including dementia, who may not understand or remember the need to wear a face covering.

6. Visual impairments, with a restricted field of vision, particularly if any residual vision is at the lower edge of the normal field of view.

7. Impairments which would make it difficult to put on or take off a face covering safely, accurately, consistently or without pain.

8. Those who rely on lip reading. This would include carers who are travelling with someone for whom a face covering will inhibit communication.

9. Children under 11, or children on dedicated school transport services. The government expects everyone to wear a face covering if they can. The above list is not exhaustive and would extend to someone who has a justifiable reason for not wearing one on the grounds of health or disability not outlined above.

 

[NorthOxonian]

Noticed a full list of exemptions on NX Bus site. Not seen this anywhere else before:

https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/2020-Files/COVID19-assets/facecovering.pdf

The problem is that such a list is impossible to police. I fall into one of those categories (in practice I would wear a face covering if I had to travel, to avoid conflict). But you wouldn't be able to tell just by looking at me - even most people who know me well wouldn't realise I was eligible. Would a driver let me on without having one on? Probably not - I wouldn't be able to prove eligibility!

 

[Bletchleyite]

The problem is that such a list is impossible to police. I fall into one of those categories (in practice I would wear a face covering if I had to travel, to avoid conflict). But you wouldn't be able to tell just by looking at me - even most people who know me well wouldn't realise I was eligible. Would a driver let me on without having one on? Probably not - I wouldn't be able to prove eligibility!

Like with quarantine, if you have a list of excuses as long as your arm the whole thing is worthless.

The intent is clearly "if all available designs of mask cause you a serious physical or mental health problem AND your condition is in the list, you can be excepted". What will happen, as ever, is that people who just don't like the idea will use that list as a means of not bothering.

To slightly misquote Matt Hancock, it's now your civic duty to wear one unless you absolutely can't.

For instance, they will not be an issue to all asthmatics. You should, as an asthmatic, only claim the exception if it will cause you to have breathing difficulties. Asthma is a huge continuum, from people for whom it's barely noticeable day to day and it just feels like being a bit unfit (e.g. me), to people who can barely get out of their chair without their oxygen level falling dangerously. Clearly the need for an exception tends towards the latter, not the former.

 

[greyman42]

The problem is that such a list is impossible to police. I fall into one of those categories (in practice I would wear a face covering if I had to travel, to avoid conflict). But you wouldn't be able to tell just by looking at me - even most people who know me well wouldn't realise I was eligible. Would a driver let me on without having one on? Probably not - I wouldn't be able to prove eligibility!

I suspect that come Monday, the driver/guard could not care less.

 

[furlong]

So the rules will have what may become known as a 'Cummings Exception' defined as a clause that allows wide latitude for the person concerned to decide for themselves if the exception applies to them?

 

[Mojo]

TfL has also said that masks will also be compulsory for passengers in taxis and Private Hire Vehicles from Monday. Again, not sure whether this has any legal grounding.

 

[MikeWM]

I assume a change to the Regulations is going to arrive this weekend (no doubt via the usual highly dubious 'too urgent to ask Parliament' route). Unless I'm missing something, without an update 'non-essential' shops won't be able to open on Monday, nor the 'bubble' idea, as both aren't allowed under the current state of the regs.

The regulation changes to allow shops/bubbles have just been published. No mention of public transport or face coverings.

Looks like they're not going to provide any enforcement mechanism at all to start with (?!).

 

[Bantamzen]

So says an expert.

Nope, just someone that pays attention in class....

 

[theironroad]

The implementation and I'd imagine the compliance levels on Monday will be farcical tbh.

It seems most operators won't be supplying masks to passengers so you either bring your own, improvise at last minute or some stations are using vending machines I believe.

Despite the pledge last week by shapps, NRCoT still doesn't seem to have been revised and at this stage I doubt they are enforceable by anyone including btp. Maybe that will change before Monday, but I can see some legal challenges going ahead if over zealous btp or anyone else try to prevent travel to someone with a valid ticket and otherwise in compliance with NRCoT .

 

[Mojo]

Shapps has just said that he is proposing to use powers under the Public Health Act over the weekend to enforce this. Still no details yet...

 

[theironroad]

Despite my above post, I'll wear when when in public areas from Monday but won't while driving as allowed by my employer.

 

[theironroad]

Shapps has just said that he is proposing to use powers under the Public Health Act over the weekend to enforce this. Still no details yet...

Ah, ok.

I can only guess when he announced it last Friday the details hadn't been thought through and they've encountered some stumbling blocks. Who'd have thought that?

 

[MrTurbostar170]

Despite myself falling into some categories that could be used to exempt myself, I will wear a mask on public transport come Monday. If it turns out that few care, and many are out without masks. I'll probably stop wearing them myself.

 

[Ivor]

I for one am now so cheesed off with the whole scenario after seeing thousands troop off trains where I work on the hot days beach bound, no social distancing leaving the station & when politely advised to do so many just gave back abuse. Demonstrations have totally ignored all advice/rules.

So.....I see within a week or two total disregard for face coverings along the same lines I mention above, all the work most of us adhered to over the months has now unraveled totally I’m sorry to say.

 

[lyndhurst25]

I doubt that everyone will comply with the compulsory face masks rule, but at least it will be a good way to spot selfish antisocial idiots at a glance and keep well away from them. It will be the mostly the same people who don't wear masks that are travelling drunk or drugged/smoking where it's not allowed/feet on seats/playing loud music/littering/coughing all the time without covering their face - all of which I experienced on a single journey on Northern last week.

 

[greyman42]

I doubt that everyone will comply with the compulsory face masks rule, but at least it will be a good way to spot selfish antisocial idiots at a glance and keep well away from them.

How will not wearing a mask make someone a selfish antisocial idiot?

 

[Pat1105]

I doubt that everyone will comply with the compulsory face masks rule, but at least it will be a good way to spot selfish antisocial idiots at a glance and keep well away from them. It will be the mostly the same people who don't wear masks that are travelling drunk or drugged/smoking where it's not allowed/feet on seats/playing loud music/littering/coughing all the time without covering their face - all of which I experienced on a single journey on Northern last week.

But how do we know that they’re antisocial idiots? They may be on the list of people who are exempt from wearing masks. This is why it’s going to be tough to police, as staff don’t know who should and shouldn’t be wearing masks.

 

[PG]

How will not wearing a mask make someone a selfish antisocial idiot?

It will from those prone to making snap judgements!

In all fairness all the other examples quoted are examples of antisocial behaviour.

 

[startingaparty]

Will this mean that conductors will now have to walk down the length of the train checking people are complying? At the minute I've noticed they don't even check tickets. Will that change from next week?

 

[GodAtum]

Will this mean that conductors will now have to walk down the length of the train checking people are complying? At the minute I've noticed they don't even check tickets. Will that change from next week?

It's pretty easy to get around. Wear a face mask when going through the gateline, and take it off when you get on the train. There are no conductors on Thameslink so can go from Brighton into London without a mask.

 

[Pat1105]

It's pretty easy to get around. Wear a face mask when going through the gateline, and take it off when you get on the train. There are no conductors on Thameslink so can go from Brighton into London without a mask.

Even easier at stations where there is no gateline or station staff.

 

[furlong]

Will this mean that conductors will now have to walk down the length of the train checking people are complying? At the minute I've noticed they don't even check tickets. Will that change from next week?

They should be walking down the aisles regularly to check for people who need assistance! (e.g. search for 'crosscountry dead 5 hours' today - "the man was only found at the depot in Bournemouth by a cleaner")

 

[Butts]

So the rules will have what may become known as a 'Cummings Exception' defined as a clause that allows wide latitude for the person concerned to decide for themselves if the exception applies to them?

Called common sense !!

 

[lyndhurst25]

How will not wearing a mask make someone a selfish antisocial idiot?

Of course, not all maskless passengers will be selfish antisocial idiots, for example people with medical exemptions, but the serial rule breakers will also be likely to break this new rule too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They should be walking down the aisles regularly to check for people who need assistance! (e.g. search for 'crosscountry dead 5 hours' today - "the man was only found at the depot in Bournemouth by a cleaner")

Surprising nobody noticed. I was once on a late night service from Euston, shall we say, somewhat worse for wear and barely conscious, sort of slumped against the window, and I got someone (a passenger, not traincrew) asking me if I was OK!

 

[Pete_uk]

If you get a t shirt the right size, you can get it so that its folded a lot below your eyes and above your nostrils with a much thinner section going over your nose and mouth. I tried this as a joke at a club meeting I went to just before the lockdown. Doing that, I didn't get warm or hot as my breath was free to escape and I could keep covered up while drinking a cup of tea.

 

[sheff1]

To slightly misquote Matt Hancock, it's now your civic duty to wear one unless you absolutely can't.

"The concept of civic duty is based on the principle that citizens owe some allegiance to their government and that government in turn protects its citizens."

Leaving aside allegiance to the government, it is fairly easy to put forward evidence that the UK government has not protected its citizens as it should. A government minister invoking civic duty is on very shaky ground if the government of which they are a member has failed in its' civic duty. If he wants to start "fining people" he first needs to implement legislation and so why does Amendment 4, published today, not include any changes regarding face coverings.

 

[Bletchleyite]

"The concept of civic duty is based on the principle that citizens owe some allegiance to their government and that government in turn protects its citizens."

Leaving aside allegiance to the government, it is fairly easy to put forward evidence that the UK government has not protected its citizens as it should.

I was more using the concept in terms of a citizen's duty to all other citizens, not to Bojo's shower.

 

[MDB1images]

Hope the following is of use.

Of the briefing I've seen face coverings' should be worn within station premises(as you enter a station)and on board all trains in England.
This also applies to those visiting a station but not travelling (however t's only legally required on trains), it doesn't apply to station carparks.

- Passengers should wear a face covering that covers the nose and mouth when on public transport (the requirements do not specify a mask).
- Some people may not be able to wear a face covering eg: young children, people with breathing difficulties and people whose disabilities make it difficult for them to wear facing coverings.

There will be customer messaging on these new face covering rules during the ticket booking process, on national news, as well as signage and announcements in station and on trains.

Rail staffs role in the wearing of masks will be.....
Engage with
Explain
Encourage
Enable
All the above done via communication(verbal, Posters on stations, info showing on the on board monitors station and on board announcements).

The Enforcement is by BT Police who will be used as a last resort.

If someone needs to lip read then staff are allowed to take off a mask to enable this(making sure they are at least 2 metres away).

If people are temporarily removing face coverings to eat/drink it's advised guards use their experience and judgement but it will be permitted if social distancing is maintained with the expectation they put the face covering back on to continue the journey.

Disposable masks are to be put in a closed bin at stations.

Think that covers a fair chunk of the queries I've read on this thread.