South Wales 'Metro' updates

[John R]

And the change in flows, with the Rhymney-Vale trains having to cross the Cathays-Bay ones around Queen Street.

Curiously, and counter-intuitively, its no worse than if the Rhymney services were running to the Bay, as they all pass over the two track section over Queen St bridge.

What does introduce a conflict though is northbound trains from the Bay as they cross over southbound traffic departing Queen St.

I would imagine the rapid acceleration of the trams is expected to reduce occupation times throughout the Queen St area to minimise any congestion.

 

[Oscar46016]

Don't forget this WAG have wasted £113m on the M4 relief road and then binned that

 

[Cardiff123]

Don't forget this WAG have wasted £113m on the M4 relief road and then binned that

What's that got to do with any of this? Amey Keolis Ltd now have control of the infrastructure north of Queen St and Welsh Govt/TfW now own it.
The M4 relief road was never officially given the go ahead, the electrification and upgrade of the Core Valley lines has all been signed off and is ready to go. The only thing that might now delay the construction work starting is Coronavirus, but that's out of everyone's control.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Don't forget this WAG have wasted £113m on the M4 relief road and then binned that

That's a very odd view to take. The Welsh Government (it hasn't been called the WAG for over a decade) prepared detailed plans for an M4 relief road, had those plans tested at a full public inquiry then chose not to proceed with them.

Are you saying the Welsh Government should either;

A/ Never even have considered building the relief road since to consider it would cost money.

or

B/ Commited to building the relief road even before plans were drawn up and the public consulted because otherwise money would be 'wasted'?

Both propositions are ridiculous.

 

[oglord]

What is ridiculous is using taxpayers' money to fund an enquiry and then ignoring the results of said enquiry.

 

[Cardiff123]

Can we not turn this into another M4 vs Metro debate. We've been there, done that many times before.
If anyone wants to do that, or slag off the Welsh Govt, start a new thread elsewhere

 

[Envoy]

Not sure if this has been mentioned earlier - Cardiff Council have published a document regarding transport in the City region:> https://www.cardiff.gov.uk/ENG/resident/Parking-roads-and-travel/transport-policies-plans/transport-white-paper/Documents/White Paper for Cardiff Transport 2019.pdf

• Crossrail - a new tram-train service from Radyr to Cardiff Bay, via the City Line and a new link south of Central and across Callaghan Square, by 2024;

 

[Cardiff123]

The latest article on the development of the Metro and electrification of the Valley lines

https://www.business-live.co.uk/economic-development/whats-happening-south-wales-metro-18233256.amp

With a ringfenced budget of £738m the scheme will see the electrification of the Core Valley Lines (from Treherbert, Aberdare, Merthyr and Rhymney into Cardiff) as well as the Coryton and City Lines through the capital down to Cardiff Bay.

The European funding is conditional on the entire project being completed by 2023....

 

[Envoy]

I thought that the tram-trains were going to come down to Cardiff from the central valleys and do a loop via the western section of the City Line and the route via Llandaff North? How could they do this if there is a limit of only 2 trains per hour between Ninian Park & Central? If they go straight to the Bay from Queen Street, they miss out Central and they can not go off down to the coast. Are they going to terminate at Central having come down via Llandaff North and then return the same way?

 

[Cardiff123]

Here's the final service pattern

Presumably the 2tph City Line services will become the 2tph that come down from Aberdare via the City Line to Central, and go up to Merthyr Tydfil from Central via the City Line.
Although don't take what's written in the article as gospel. I often find sloppy errors in any articles by Sion Barry on the TfW franchise. For example, in this article, dated 24th March 2020 he states that:

"In Wales the 15-year franchise, was awarded last year to KeolisAmey and became operational in October."

When it should actually say the franchise was awarded in June 2018 and became operation in October 2018, not "last year".

 

[Dai Corner]

Here's the final service patternView attachment 77884

Presumably the 2tph City Line services will become the 2tph that come down from Aberdare via the City Line to Central, and go up to Merthyr Tydfil from Central via the City Line.
Although don't take what's written in the article as gospel. I often find sloppy errors in any articles by Sion Barry on the TfW franchise. For example, in this article, dated 24th March 2020 he states that: When it should actually say the franchise was awarded in June 2018 and became operation in October 2018, not "last year".

Perhaps it was written in 2019?

Maybe Sion Barry should get his brother Mark, Professor of Practice in Connectivity at Cardiff University and '@SouthWalesMetroProf' on Twitter to proofread his articles?

 

[anthony263]

Also noticed saying tram-trains would only be working the Aberdare and merthyr lines

 

[Envoy]

I thought that when Network Rail inserted the extra City Line track to the south of Canton depot that this was to allow more than 2 trains per hour to reach Central via Ninian Park? Is the City Line western section still confined to only 2 trains per hour due to some constraint between Ninian Park & Central?

 

[Cardiff123]

Cardiff West junction is a major constraint on being able to significantly increase services from Penarth, Barry and the Vale, and the City line into Central.

 

[Envoy]

Cardiff West junction is a major constraint on being able to significantly increase services from Penarth, Barry and the Vale, and the City line into Central.

Many thanks for your response. I just wonder how on earth they could solve the problem? It is surely a pity that Cardiff Council allowed the building of that student accommodation block immediately next to the railway along with the renovation of the old tramshed - which they had been using as workshops for repairing their fleet. Had this land been vacant, then surely it could have accommodated extra tracks into Cardiff Central via a new Taff bridge immediately south of the present rail bridge and through the old brewery site? Of course, if nobody raised the issue with the Council, then we can hardly blame them for allowing this development.

Map of area:> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4751859,-3.1865065,646m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1

 

[Dai Corner]

Transport plans for SE Wales re-assessed

The Welsh Government and councils in southeast Wales are to review travel demand and transport investment needs in the light of the “new normal&rdqu

www.transportxtra.com

Transport plans for SE Wales re-assessed
Travel Demand
01 June 2020

The Welsh Government and councils in southeast Wales are to review travel demand and transport investment needs in the light of the “new normal” following the end of Covid-19 restrictions.

In a report addressing the economic impacts of Covid-19, officers told last week’s Cardiff Capital Region City Deal cabinet meeting: “Early discussion with the Welsh Government suggests that all transport-related forecasts should be re-run and it has been recommended that a joint piece of work is carried out via the regional transport authority to inform a shared position on future transport investment in the region.

“There is a real opportunity to think about how this might lead to a more differentiated strategy for the Cardiff Capital Region, striving for better ratios than the current 80:10:10 of car use, public transport and active travel.”

Asked about the work, a Welsh Government spokesman told LTT: “Coronavirus has led to significant and unprecedented challenges in the transport sector. This includes obvious short-term effects on demand.

“Further consideration of specific forecasts will be possible once more information about the overall impact becomes available.

“We will work with our partners, including the Cardiff Capital Regional City Deal, to develop a better picture of how the new normal, post-pandemic will impact on transport needs and demand.”

 

[Tumbleweed]

The cynic in me sounds like this an excuse to back track (no pun intended) on the commitments.

 

[Dai Corner]

The cynic in me sounds like this an excuse to back track (no pun intended) on the commitments.

I do wonder whether, post-epidemic, people will be prepared to travel in crush-loaded trains to work in crowded city centres.

 

[Tumbleweed]

Very true.

 

[Glenn1969]

We will see when more people start to go back to work and shops and businesses reopen

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

The cynic in me sounds like this an excuse to back track (no pun intended) on the commitments.

I disagree. I think it would be very odd not to have such a review in the circumstances.

I suspect that any changes to the rail plans will be relatively minor and that what they'll try to do is to lock in some of the gains made by active travel during the pandemic. Cardiff council has already speeded up the implementation of existing plans for new bike lanes and broader pavements and I suspect we'll see more of the same.

 

[edwin_m]

I suspect it will be very difficult to do any prediction of future public transport demand because there are few comparable events to provide any evidence. Of those events that are somewhat comparable we don't know which if any will resemble the current situation in terms of the future course of the outbreak. The few precedents we have, such as the response to SARS in the Far East, suggest demand will return to previous trends within a few years.

 

[Envoy]

This pandemic is surely eventually going to go and things will get back to ‘normal’. It is all very well seeing people riding around more on bicycles in the middle of summer and avoiding public transport. Just you wait until we get to autumn when the winds are blowing and the rain is lashing down and most people are back at work. If the virus is still about, people will use their cars rather than go to work by train or bus. We will also see even more children being driven to school rather than use public transport. The one thing that might change is more people will work from home as organisations have come to realise that it is not necessary to drag everyone into an office daily.

Any scaling back of the Metro project would be very foolish. Once the car use increases along with the jams and the virus has gone, people will only be to happy to have an efficient modern transport system in operation.

 

[anthony263]

I agree I think demand will return especially to the rail I industry.

The bus industry I think is going to have their work cut out to try and regain lost customers etc however.

 

[cle]

This pandemic is surely eventually going to go and things will get back to ‘normal’. It is all very well seeing people riding around more on bicycles in the middle of summer and avoiding public transport. Just you wait until we get to autumn when the winds are blowing and the rain is lashing down and most people are back at work. If the virus is still about, people will use their cars rather than go to work by train or bus. We will also see even more children being driven to school rather than use public transport. The one thing that might change is more people will work from home as organisations have come to realise that it is not necessary to drag everyone into an office daily.

Any scaling back of the Metro project would be very foolish. Once the car use increases along with the jams and the virus has gone, people will only be to happy to have an efficient modern transport system in operation.

Plus, if you are working 2-3 days from home, the train becomes a lot more economical than a car (if you otherwise didn't need one) - or a second car, for families who currently have one. So there are financial benefits to realize too - vs weekly/monthly passes.

 

[CardiffKid]

Welsh Transport Minister Ken Skates identified four potential new stations that could open by 2024 (but only if Westminster pay for them through the New Stations Fund 3) including Ely Mill on the City Line.

https://gov.wales/minister-economy-...-skates-has-written-secretary-state-transport

(The others are: Deeside Parkway, on the Borderlands Line in north Wales; Carno, on the Cambrian Mainline in mid Wales; and St Clears on the Great Western Mainline in west Wales)

 

[Cardiff123]

Welsh Transport Minister Ken Skates identified four potential new stations that could open by 2024 (but only if Westminster pay for them through the New Stations Fund 3) including Ely Mill on the City Line.

https://gov.wales/minister-economy-...-skates-has-written-secretary-state-transport

(The others are: Deeside Parkway, on the Borderlands Line in north Wales; Carno, on the Cambrian Mainline in mid Wales; and St Clears on the Great Western Mainline in west Wales)

Reason number 1124 why Welsh Govt/TfW need full control of the rail network in Wales. It's mad that Welsh Govt have to go begging to the DfT in London every time they want Network Rail to make an enhancement to the rail network in Wales (outside of the now fully devolved Core Valley lines).
And yes, Welsh Govt could choose to fund enhancements themselves, as we saw with the Ebbw Vale re-opening in 2008, but as control & powers over Network Rail are not devolved in Wales, they don't get any funding allocated to spend on rail infrastructure like Scotland and Northern Ireland do. Which is one reason why the Ebbw Vale re-opening was done on the cheap.

 

[oglord]

Reason number 1124 why Welsh Govt/TfW need full control of the rail network in Wales.

Or, absolutely none, as they have less borrowing capability than the UK government.

 

[Cardiff123]

Or, absolutely none, as they have less borrowing capability than the UK government.

So please explain the logic behind having rail infrastructure fully devolved to Northern Ireland, but not Wales?

 

[oglord]

So please explain the logic behind having rail infrastructure fully devolved to Northern Ireland, but not Wales?

Northern Ireland is not connected to the British network.