2nd Hand Unrepainted buses

[scosutsut]

Surely that's ADAPTED rather than ADOPTED?

I realised that as I finished putting the post together, but having put the effort in, a bit like JMB I just adjusted it!

 

[delt1c]

Sampson's ran a fairly motley bus fleet at the best of times. Along with other such operators they acquired alot of LT / PTE cast off Atlanteans and Fleetlines. In Welwyn Hatfield where they'd won the tender for the local 'G' routes you had ex SYPTE deckers repainted into Sampson's blue and red, you had ex WMPTE Coventry Fleetlines which kept their powder blue and white and received Sampson's fleetnames, ex WMPTE Fleetlines in WMPTE blue & cream and a couple of ex GMPTE deckers in GMPTE colours.

I think you're wrong on the Bedfords, the new (or ex demo at least) white Plaxton bodied single decks they acquired were actually Volvo B10s. Those remained with County Bus after they took Sampson's over and lasted a few years - unlike the majority of the Sampson's fleet which was disposed of fairly quickly.

You are correct they were Volvo's, memory gets a bit hazy with time. If I remember there was also a Loddeka in Sampsons yard ( never saw it move) , always wondered what happened to it?

 

[bussnapperwm]

GRS Travel at one stage ran a Dart in Trent Barton livery, a Dart in TM Travel livery, a pair of darts in Notts and Derby livery and some Striders in Arriva top, fence paint black on the bottom.

Then they repainted the ex Trent dart red, and had a ex AMPM Dart still in their livery, a ex Diamond (via Joe's Travel and Little Gem) Crusader, a pair of Warrington livery Marshall darts (via Joe's) and finally got a pair of ex JMB Darts, still in JMB livery when GRS closed down.

 

[bussnapperwm]

Also, thinking about it, NXWM last year brought some solos from the administrators of WMSNT, which are still in blue/white - two are withdrawn and one is used as a training vehicle.

Don't get me started on Rotala...at one stage they had buses in Birmingham running in Diamond Black, Go West Midlands, Whitelaws livery Urbans, Ludlows, Diamond Red, Central Connect and even Thomsons livered Excels

 

[Tetchytyke]

What was Sovereign???? Was it after Flagship?

It's hard to remember, what with First never sticking with an idea for more than six months, certainly in Bradford where I grew up.

IIRC Flagship was Yorkshire Rider's branding for their new buses in the early/mid 90s. Sovereign was First, it came in in the late 90s when they got the B10BLE Renowns and the last batch of the R-type Olympians. In true First style, I think they called it Gold Standard elsewhere in the country.

https://alchetron.com/cdn/first-west-yorkshire-acf4c9bd-510c-4c4c-bb64-018b87ad112-resize-750.jpeg (not my image)

The first ALX400s they got were branded Sovereign too. And then First got bored and switched to Overground branding(!)

Compared to the knackered old Fleetlines and Atlanteans they were still running, it is fair to say the new buses were a massive step forward.

 

[A0]

You are correct they were Volvo's, memory gets a bit hazy with time. If I remember there was also a Loddeka in Sampsons yard ( never saw it move) , always wondered what happened to it?

The Lodekka would probably have been this one http://bcv.robsly.com/882vfm.html - which was actually painted into Sampson's colours - but I bet it never went out in service.

Shows as sold by Sampson's in 1988 - which would be around the time they sold out their bus and coach interests to AJS - which meant it was absorbed by County Bus.

Moving back on topic, there have been no shortage of operators who's livery choice has been 'influenced' by the source of some of their vehicles. Orange, white and brown became surprisingly popular when alot of ex GMPTE stock came on the second hand scene.....

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It's hard to remember, what with First never sticking with an idea for more than six months, certainly in Bradford where I grew up.

IIRC Flagship was Yorkshire Rider's branding for their new buses in the early/mid 90s. Sovereign was First, it came in in the late 90s when they got the B10BLE Renowns and the last batch of the R-type Olympians. In true First style, I think they called it Gold Standard elsewhere in the country.

https://alchetron.com/cdn/first-west-yorkshire-acf4c9bd-510c-4c4c-bb64-018b87ad112-resize-750.jpeg (not my image)

The first ALX400s they got were branded Sovereign too. And then First got bored and switched to Overground branding(!)

Compared to the knackered old Fleetlines and Atlanteans they were still running, it is fair to say the new buses were a massive step forward.

That one escaped me. Was Gold not the First Greater Manchester one?

First Greater Manchester -575 R575SBA

Volvo B10BLE 575 seen at Leigh not long after delivery in 1997. This was part of a batch of twenty buses that were split ten each between Wigan and Atherton depot and were delivered in this allover cream livery (Except 587) with vinyls added in the former GRT style in blue and gold. They were...

www.flickr.com

I don't know if it was that First got bored but that managers got so hacked off that there was a steady churn of people.

The text book examples of firms adopting the livery of acquired vehicles are former GM Buses = Your Bus (Smiths of Shennington), Favourite (Busways) or Chase Bus, OR Red Kite in Aylesbury adopting the late 1990s Go North East scheme

Moving back on topic, there have been no shortage of operators who's livery choice has been 'influenced' by the source of some of their vehicles. Orange, white and brown became surprisingly popular when alot of ex GMPTE stock came on the second hand scene.....

I know - I said

There was also a firm called Toppings (St Helens) who bought some ex GM Nationals but repainted the brown with blue so adapting the livery and orange, white and blue was subsequently adopted for new vehicles.


Back in the mists of time, Maidstone Borough bought a fleet of ex Nottingham Leopards that were in a rather interesting Lilac livery (and were called Lilac Leopards). They were only about a year old so Maidstone simply painted over the Nottingham fleetname and ran them as such for the next 4/5 years, I believe

'Lilac Leopard', in Maidstone.

In the late 1970's, Maidstone Borough Council embarked on a program of replacing it's entire fleet with high capacity, high floor single deckers. What made the decision even more unusual was that Bedford's Y series chassis were the principal choice, these were more usually associated with light...

www.flickr.com

There was also the curious instance of the jointly operated Arriva/TrentBarton X38 with TB painting up a Dart for the service. They decided to replace the Dart but Arriva bought it off them to improve their parlous offering on the X38!

 

[Pat1105]

Also, thinking about it, NXWM last year brought some solos from the administrators of WMSNT, which are still in blue/white - two are withdrawn and one is used as a training vehicle.

Don't get me started on Rotala...at one stage they had buses in Birmingham running in Diamond Black, Go West Midlands, Whitelaws livery Urbans, Ludlows, Diamond Red, Central Connect and even Thomsons livered Excels

They’ve still got solo’s and a few E200’s running round in Central livery and E200’s in Hansons livery even though they took over those companies years ago. I just think its lazy and shows the operator simply can’t be bothered. Then again, it is Diamond so it doesn’t surprise me.

 

[GusB]

Eastern Scottish were by no means the only SBG operator to run vehicles in former owners' liveries. From 1985 when the group was re-organised there would have been multiple examples by virtue of the fact that depots were moved between companies.

Strathtay's initial fleet would have been comprised of vehicles running in Midland blue and Northern yellow. Kelvin had buses in Eastern green, Midland blue and Central red. Central inherited some green Eastern vehicles etc...

Even after that there were various vehicle swaps within the group. We had a few Strathtay-liveried Nationals kicking about for a while (swapped with P-type Tigers). Highland had at least one Fleetline that was ex-Fife and didn't receive the grey part of its livery, and there was one ex-Grampian Fleetline that ran about in Strathtay blue/orange.

 

[RustySpoons]

An interesting operation, Herdman, run a fleet of second hand Solos, all in the previous operators livery for less than a month each year for the Hay Festival. I'm lead to believe they're SORNd for most of the year, then run a Park & Ride service while the festival is running.

Herdman 2018 - 2021

Has contracts with local schools and the annual Hay Festival. Uses a number of ex-West Midlands Travel plus some ex-First Group Optare Solos for the Hay Festival Shuttle;

www.flickr.com

 

[vlad]

Branding a bus "First(f) PMT" would have Ray Stenning being struck by lightning and then turning at high speed in his grave - let's say almost nobody knows that stands for Potteries Motor Transport.

You're right - because it stands for Potteries Motor Traction.

 

[noddingdonkey]

IIRC Flagship was Yorkshire Rider's branding for their new buses in the early/mid 90s. Sovereign was First, it came in in the late 90s when they got the B10BLE Renowns and the last batch of the R-type Olympians. In true First style, I think they called it Gold Standard elsewhere in the country.

I think it was Sovereign in Bradford and Gold Standard in Leeds and Halifax? Can't remember what Huddersfield got.

Black Prince in Leeds were notorious for running newly acquired buses in whatever state they arrived in, including keeping Amberley Travel's livery on route 88 when they took them over.

More recently, Yorkshire Tiger have been known to run newly transferred vehicles in Arriva livery.

 

[Tetchytyke]

More recently, Yorkshire Tiger have been known to run newly transferred vehicles in Arriva livery.

I've moved the First discussion on to the First thread.

What surprises me with YT is that they don't even take off or vinyl over the Arriva fleetnames, even though they change the legal lettering. I know some of the Arriva buses they use are just loans, but a lot aren't, so it seems odd.

 

[Andyh82]

I've moved the First discussion on to the First thread.

What surprises me with YT is that they don't even take off or vinyl over the Arriva fleetnames, even though they change the legal lettering. I know some of the Arriva buses they use are just loans, but a lot aren't, so it seems odd.

To be fair, it sounds to me that you are rewriting FirstGroup history, suggesting the criticisms people have of them now, were also the same 20 years ago. Go back 20 years and FirstGroup were seen as the leaders, so all this ‘they got bored, typical First’ type language isn’t really true.

 

[Stan Drews]

To be fair, it sounds to me that you are rewriting FirstGroup history, suggesting the criticisms people have of them now, were also the same 20 years ago. Go back 20 years and FirstGroup were seen as the leaders, so all this ‘they got bored, typical First’ type language isn’t really true.

The Overground first reared it’s head in the early 00s, and was trumpeted across the UK, but seemed to start withering relatively quickly, despite the promises of longevity.

 

[Eyersey468]

Sweynes of Swinefleet have some ex Lothian President/Tridents and Geminis that are still in Lothian livery

 

[Flange Squeal]

The text book examples of firms adopting the livery of acquired vehicles are former GM Buses = Your Bus (Smiths of Shennington), Favourite (Busways) or Chase Bus, OR Red Kite in Aylesbury adopting the late 1990s Go North East scheme

Not quite - you might call that ‘adapted’? The red was a right angle front section, rather than going further towards the middle of the bodyside and angled. Whilst some received a horizontal yellow band between the red and blue at waist height, I don’t think any Red Kite applications carried a yellow band through the red above the upper deck windows as per GNE either?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Scarlet band of Durham are running around with several ex GoNE Venture liveried solos that still retains GoNE markings and Branded seats

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Not quite - you might call that ‘adapted’? The red was a right angle front section, rather than going further towards the middle of the bodyside and angled. Whilst some received a horizontal yellow band between the red and blue at waist height, I don’t think any Red Kite applications carried a yellow band through the red above the upper deck windows as per GNE either?

Fair points - certainly they did have some from GNE which retained that livery, and they did subsequently adapt it and applied it to other purchases in a rather low rent tribute!

JTY 391X

Out of service at Leighton Buzzard was this ex Go North East ECW bodied Leyland Olympian,of Red Kite,Tilsworth.

www.flickr.com

D379 XRS

Leighton Buzzard is where this ex Stagecoach Bluebird Alexander bodied Leyland Olympian,loads up,working service 73 to Northall via Eaton Bray.It was owned by Red Kite when photographed.

www.flickr.com

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's just typical of the low-budget "that'll do" approach of the highly disreputable (and closely inter-related, by way of various family connections and feuds) group of mostly similarly-named small operators based in and around Aylesbury.

We've had to put up with their poor quality operations in MK for years, I can't think of very much good to say about any of them and I certainly wouldn't hire a coach from one of them.

And I say that on the background that Arriva MK is hardly the best operation in the world either!

 

[cnjb8]

Scarlet band of Durham are running around with several ex GoNE Venture liveried solos that still retains GoNE markings and Branded seats

I thought they were branded for MetrocentreMini.

Littles of Ilkeston have a plain white livery, yet a few vehicles are trundling around in Nottingham Medilink and Locallink livery along with Morebus branding.
Skills Coaches still need to repaint about 4 ex-Lothian Tridents but their paintshop is being refurbished.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

I thought they were branded for MetrocentreMini.

Think one is ex metro centre, you could be right. They don’t seem to be using them much at the moment, preferring to use the much newer Durham P&R vehicles on most of their services that are running

 

[cainebj]

First Greater Manchester recently ceased to exist, with their operations being split between Go North West and Diamond Bus; the liveries in that area were (and possibly still are) a mess, with a mixture of:

• FirstBus livery
• FirstBus livery without logos
• FirstBus livery with Diamond or GNE stickers instead of logos
• Diamond's shade of blue but missing Diamond branding (don't know how that came to be but I've definitely seen it)
• Complete Diamond livery
• GNE livery

This lead to the bizarre situation of the branding of the bus possibly being completely different to that of the ticket; for example, the ticket machines were issuing tickets branded as GNE on buses branded as First. They hadn't even got their act together by the time First tickets stopped being accepted on the new operators, so that must have caused some confusion with passengers having incorrect tickets.

Not quite sure where you got that from? First Greater Manchester most certainly still exists, operating from their Oldham depot.
All of the First livery buses operated by GNW and Diamond have their own names on printed vinyl over the First names to reduce/remove any of the confusion from ticketing, the ones still with First names on will still be operated by First. The majority of passengers will know which bus their ticket is valid for from the name on the bus and the route number on the displays.

 

[py_megapixel]

Not quite sure where you got that from? First Greater Manchester most certainly still exists, operating from their Oldham depot.
All of the First livery buses operated by GNW and Diamond have their own names on printed vinyl over the First names to reduce/remove any of the confusion from ticketing, the ones still with First names on will still be operated by First. The majority of passengers will know which bus their ticket is valid for from the name on the bus and the route number on the displays.

Really? I thought all their operations had transferred to GNW and Diamond.

 

[jp4712]

First Greater Manchester recently ceased to exist, with their operations being split between Go North West and Diamond Bus; the liveries in that area were (and possibly still are) a mess, with a mixture of:

• FirstBus livery
• FirstBus livery without logos
• FirstBus livery with Diamond or GNE stickers instead of logos
• Diamond's shade of blue but missing Diamond branding (don't know how that came to be but I've definitely seen it)
• Complete Diamond livery
• GNE livery

This lead to the bizarre situation of the branding of the bus possibly being completely different to that of the ticket; for example, the ticket machines were issuing tickets branded as GNE on buses branded as First. They hadn't even got their act together by the time First tickets stopped being accepted on the new operators, so that must have caused some confusion with passengers having incorrect tickets.

Very much not ceased to exist, they still operate from Oldham plus the Vantage guided busway.

A good example of adopting a scheme was Chase of Cannock, who bought so many ex-Greater Manchester Nationals that they adopted brown, orange and white as their livery.

 

[Trackman]

Really? I thought all their operations had transferred to GNW and Diamond.

They are definitely still going in Manchester.

Back on subject, Diamond have loads of different unrepainted 2nd hand buses.
I read the company that was making their new buses had gone bust so that's why they have acquired odd buses.
I also think First group have extended the lease on their buses to Diamond as a result of this.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Really? I thought all their operations had transferred to GNW and Diamond.

No, so a bit more confusion. They were trying to sell all three Manchester depots.

• Queens Road went to GNW who have drafted in a few vehicles from Plymouth and acquired some newish vehicles, as well as repainting and refurbing the First vehicles but still quite a few in First colours.
• Bolton went to Rotala with some fleet not transferring and going directly within First to Oldham or other OpCos. They had the remainder on loan and as vehicles have arrived, the number of loans has been reduced with e400s in particular heading back to First. The majority now left are B7RLEs and suggest that some may simply be returned to First and never be used again.
• Oldham remained with First as an agreed sale never then came to fruition. Note that Oldham also have responsibility for the Vantage service on the East Lancs Busway with an outstation in Bolton.

 

[Trackman]

No, so a bit more confusion. They were trying to sell all three Manchester depots.

• Queens Road went to GNW who have drafted in a few vehicles from Plymouth and acquired some newish vehicles, as well as repainting and refurbing the First vehicles but still quite a few in First colours.
• Bolton went to Rotala with some fleet not transferring and going directly within First to Oldham or other OpCos. They had the remainder on loan and as vehicles have arrived, the number of loans has been reduced with e400s in particular heading back to First. The majority now left are B7RLEs and suggest that some may simply be returned to First and never be used again.
• Oldham remained with First as an agreed sale never then came to fruition. Note that Oldham also have responsibility for the Vantage service on the East Lancs Busway with an outstation in Bolton.

Ah, that's why I've seen some unbranded Diamond buses branded as Rotala ( in a small way)

 

[cnjb8]

No, so a bit more confusion. They were trying to sell all three Manchester depots.

• Queens Road went to GNW who have drafted in a few vehicles from Plymouth and acquired some newish vehicles, as well as repainting and refurbing the First vehicles but still quite a few in First colours.
• Bolton went to Rotala with some fleet not transferring and going directly within First to Oldham or other OpCos. They had the remainder on loan and as vehicles have arrived, the number of loans has been reduced with e400s in particular heading back to First. The majority now left are B7RLEs and suggest that some may simply be returned to First and never be used again.
• Oldham remained with First as an agreed sale never then came to fruition. Note that Oldham also have responsibility for the Vantage service on the East Lancs Busway with an outstation in Bolton.

Who was Oldham going to be sold to?

 

[LancasterRed]

As expected, Rotala do this heavily.

My particular favorites are an unbranded London bus and part-branded Wessex bus running around Preston.

Lancaster is excellent for having its own dedicated fleet.