Northern - is the bad PR unfair?

[SuspectUsual]

Is Christmas shopping just too alluring today?

Biggest triumph of marketing in history. People falling over themselves to pay over the odds for tat they don’t need in an oversized garden shed

 

[Carlisle]

If you cleared out Arriva's management, who would be any better?

A unintended consequence of franchising appears to be the emergence of a culture in some circles similar to certain premier league footballers.
IE if you don’t fancy playing for a particular boss, simply tread water until they’re replaced with somebody else .

 

[_toommm_]

Well, for the past two weeks the 19:40 from Manchester Airport to Blackpool North has been cancelled.

They really need to assess what drivers they can consistently have access to, and work around that. I'd rather them create a temporary timetable which works around the driver shortages. As frustrating as that would be, I'd rather know in advance it was cancelled rather than getting a nasty surprise at the station.

 

[northernchris]

Looking at last night's RTT data, it seems there were a multitude of problems later out of Leeds for all TOCs. So it wasn't a meltdown on the Aire so much as a more general problem in the Leeds area.

For some reason, Fridays seem particularly bad for the timetable falling apart. It seems like there's too many trains scheduled in and out of the west end of Leeds for what the infrastructure can cope with. It's really common to incur 5-10 minutes delays waiting to arrive or leave, and because of how close together trains are scheduled once 2-3 are late it soon knocks on to every service

 

[Killingworth]

For some reason, Fridays seem particularly bad for the timetable falling apart. It seems like there's too many trains scheduled in and out of the west end of Leeds for what the infrastructure can cope with. It's really common to incur 5-10 minutes delays waiting to arrive or leave, and because of how close together trains are scheduled once 2-3 are late it soon knocks on to every service

The lack of tracks, crossovers and platforms is a major part of our current difficulty when it comes to pushing more trains through the pinch points. In theory the timetables work, but only when all trains turn up at their expected times. Too many don't and one late train causes knock on effects over a wide area.

Reliable passenger services exist in the UK, like Southern to Fenchurch Street. The difference is lack of overlapping long distance services and common rolling stock.

Neither Northern nor TPE will ever be able to match the levels of reliability seen on such services. However to get nearer requires a lot of attention to minor bottlenecks that can regularly compound one little difficulty due to lack of diversionary options. Even if it's just to pull a slow stopping service into a loop to allow a faster one to pass.or maybe more bi-directional signalling at critical points.

Of course TOC management, rolling stock and personnel issues have big parts to play but we shouldn't overlook Network Rail.

Northern's PR team is up against it with all the contributory factors, and I haven't mentioned weather. With more new rolling stock bedding in it must be better by this time next year.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Northrrn have just cancelled the 1H49 14.26 LPY to MIA, due to no drivers. Thanks a lot for that Northern I have a flight at 17.30.

I checked earlier too otherwise I could have jumped on the 14.03 Norwich service.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Just spoke to a guard who should have been on the cancelled service. He said it's embarrassing. They don't have enough staff period.

 

[M!T]

How many applications for every driver vacancy? How many like me who've wanted to be a driver our whole lives and have never seen a trainee opportunity? Really no excuse for "no drivers".

 

[js1000]

Northern's PR team is up against it with all the contributory factors, and I haven't mentioned weather. With more new rolling stock bedding in it must be better by this time next year.

The problem is nothing has changed in 18 months since the May 2018 timetable change.

Punctuality last month was the worst it has been since the the franchise started.

Problem routes which are susceptible to staffing shortages and congestion (i.e. Blackpool North to Manchester Airport) is one such route which have not been resolved.

Staffing issues still persist.

We're talking about a service that is getting worse by the day!

 

[Grumpy Git]

Northern should get Boris Johnson to be their spokesman, people seem to believe him for some obscure reason.

 

[Llama]

How many applications for every driver vacancy? How many like me who've wanted to be a driver our whole lives and have never seen a trainee opportunity? Really no excuse for "no drivers".

There is no shortage of drivers. There is a shortage of drivers who are trained in their rostered work.

 

[ohgoditsjames]

On my way to the Sheffield tap and noticed more cancellations to the Nottingham service due to “lack of drivers”.

 

[Grumpy Git]

There is no shortage of drivers. There is a shortage of drivers who are trained in their rostered work.

Er, isn't that the same thing?

 

[CHAPS2034]

Er, isn't that the same thing?

No...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Er, isn't that the same thing?

Not really, it's much easier to resolve and is caused solely by planning incompetence and not for instance high levels of sickness or difficulties recruiting.

 

[Grumpy Git]

No...

A shortage of drivers who are trained in their rostered work is a shortage of drivers.

Some of you lot should be MP's

 

[Bantamzen]

For some reason, Fridays seem particularly bad for the timetable falling apart. It seems like there's too many trains scheduled in and out of the west end of Leeds for what the infrastructure can cope with. It's really common to incur 5-10 minutes delays waiting to arrive or leave, and because of how close together trains are scheduled once 2-3 are late it soon knocks on to every service

Leeds is starting to have a whole multitude of problems. This morning we stood outside Leeds for well over 10 minutes waiting for a path into the station, despite there being 4 bays empty out of P1-6 and nothing else coming out. I can't help wondering if the recent works around enabling P0 have had a knock on effect? Either way, it will almost certainly mean more delays on triangle services for a bit this morning, for which Northern will get the stick even though it was clearly a signalling issue.

 

[northernchris]

Leeds is starting to have a whole multitude of problems. This morning we stood outside Leeds for well over 10 minutes waiting for a path into the station, despite there being 4 bays empty out of P1-6 and nothing else coming out. I can't help wondering if the recent works around enabling P0 have had a knock on effect? Either way, it will almost certainly mean more delays on triangle services for a bit this morning, for which Northern will get the stick even though it was clearly a signalling issue.

There were signalling problems this morning pre-0700 which added to the usual congestion issues.

 

[Kingspanner]

Another fine mess by Northern. First services to Bishop Auckland, Saltburn and Whitby all extensively delayed or cancelled outright "Due to the train(s) being late from the depot".
How many times do we hear this, and how is this allowed to continue?

 

[Grumpy Git]

Another fine mess by Northern. First services to Bishop Auckland, Saltburn and Whitby all extensively delayed or cancelled outright "Due to the train(s) being late from the depot".
How many times do we hear this, and how is this allowed to continue?

Them trains need a better alarm clock.

 

[ainsworth74]

How many times do we hear this, and how is this allowed to continue?

Depending on the cause of the delay to get them off depot it may be allowed to continue simply because there is nothing that could have reasonable have been done to prevent it!

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Northern's latest wheeze to **** off its customers in South Yorkshire is to miss out stops at intermediate stations at times of delay, but without actually telling anyone! I know of several commuters over the past few days who've boarded the train at Meadowhall to get to Chapeltown, Elsecar or Wombwell who've finished up going straight through their station, ending up in Barnsley! There's been no information screens or announcements, which pretty much shows just what contempt Northern have for their customers right now.

 

[scotrail158713]

Northern's latest wheeze to **** off its customers in South Yorkshire is to miss out stops at intermediate stations at times of delay, but without actually telling anyone! I know of several commuters over the past few days who've boarded the train at Meadowhall to get to Chapeltown, Elsecar or Wombwell who've finished up going straight through their station, ending up in Barnsley! There's been no information screens or announcements, which pretty much shows just what contempt Northern have for their customers right now.

I suppose I should be thankful that Scotrail have the decency to tell me when they’re doing that then?

 

[Matt_pool]

Northern's latest wheeze to **** off its customers in South Yorkshire is to miss out stops at intermediate stations at times of delay, but without actually telling anyone! I know of several commuters over the past few days who've boarded the train at Meadowhall to get to Chapeltown, Elsecar or Wombwell who've finished up going straight through their station, ending up in Barnsley! There's been no information screens or announcements, which pretty much shows just what contempt Northern have for their customers right now.

Merseyrail often do that on Southport to Hunts Cross services; but they do let passengers know, and at least the trains are every 15 minutes!

 

[Railweigh]

A shortage of drivers who are trained in their rostered work is a shortage of drivers.

Some of you lot should be MP's

How many applications for every driver vacancy? How many like me who've wanted to be a driver our whole lives and have never seen a trainee opportunity? Really no excuse for "no drivers".

Those driver vacancies get filled, there is no shortage of takers. But it takes time to train, qualify, then learn and sign all the relevant routes. Northern has had a big recruitment push over the last 18 months or so and there are loads of new drivers coming through.

So without being pedantic, as others have pointed out, it’s often that there is a shortage of drivers who sign the route, rather than and out-and-out shortage of drivers, which would require more recruitment to solve.

 

[TUC]

Well, for the past two weeks the 19:40 from Manchester Airport to Blackpool North has been cancelled.

They really need to assess what drivers they can consistently have access to, and work around that. I'd rather them create a temporary timetable which works around the driver shortages. As frustrating as that would be, I'd rather know in advance it was cancelled rather than getting a nasty surprise at the station.

I think most passengers would rather have a full timetable and Northern employ a full team of reliable staff.

 

[TUC]

Depending on the cause of the delay to get them off depot it may be allowed to continue simply because there is nothing that could have reasonable have been done to prevent it!

But if it happens frequently its unlikely to be just unfortunate. There is something systematic at fault.

Maybe a more honest answer sometimes would be to state 'due to traincrew being late for work'.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But if it happens frequently its unlikely to be just unfortunate. There is something systematic at fault.

Yes, an unworkable and overly interworked timetable, precisely the issue LNR has too. Simplify it and the problem will go away.

 

[_toommm_]

I think most passengers would rather have a full timetable and Northern employ a full team of reliable staff.

Of course all passengers would prefer that. But as an interim measure, I'd rather be downgraded to a lesser timetable that is guaranteed to run (outside of issues such as signal failure, high winds etc. - issues Northern can't control)

 

[talltim]

I know drivers take a long time to train, but so do Northern. They’ve made unworkable plans and it shows.
The ongoing attempted sale of Arriva by DB shows what the players in the rail industry think of Northern, quite a few of the interested parties specifically suggested that Northern be left out of the deal. As it happens none of them offered enough for DB anyway so they are looking to float it instead.