Old seats

[northwichcat]

With opeartors like EMT and Scotrail removing all seats from 156s and 158s and replacing with new, what exactly happens to the old ones? I would hope the leasing companies want to keep hold of some for replacement of broken seats on non-refurbished trains. However, I also think it would be a good idea for some seats to be refurbished and to replace some of the poor ones in older trains such as the non-refurbished 142s and 150s.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I personally think the 142s were more comfortable when they had the original bus style bench seating rather than the individual bucket seating, which is very hard and doesn't fit the shape of my back very well!

The most comfortable of the recent seating types that I know is the thick soft dark maroon ones that were fitted to the Trans-Pennine 158s; I believe a few units may even still have these seats with different coloured upholstery fitted? ( Anyone know what the reference name and number for these nice soft seats is? They'd be perfect for the New Giant Hovercraft... )

 

[northwichcat]

The 158s used on South TPE had grey seating opposed to the blue with a maroon top on North TPE (the completly maroon ones were First Class.) Central Trains and FNW also had the same type of seating. Some of the TPE 158s went to FGW and have kept the same type of seating and some at Northern remain the same type of seating. The ones now at SWT and EMT have been stripped out.

 

[WillPS]

SWT still have the same seats in their 158s and 159/1s in Standard (albeit recovered in the Stagecoach red moquette), they've installed real first class seats in the FC compartment though.

 

[142094]

On visits to Northern's main depots on the open days, there were some old seats lying around. Some of the notices they had put up say that most things go to get recycled, so I guess they are stripped and sorted for recycling and disposal.

 

[Aictos]

On visits to Northern's main depots on the open days, there were some old seats lying around. Some of the notices they had put up say that most things go to get recycled, so I guess they are stripped and sorted for recycling and disposal.

Wonder if I could get a old seat or two from Northern, would be recycling them as I could use them at home,
Come to think of it, I love to learn how to upholstered a chair - would be able to redo the sofa at home then with new covers sort of like they did in that On the Buses episode where they upholstered Stan's sofa with spare material from the depot!

 

[WillPS]

Remove panels from frame, remove existing outer fabric, remove padding and replace (if necessary), stretch new material over and seal/staple it, screw back to frame.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

SWT still have the same seats in their 158s and 159/1s in Standard (albeit recovered in the Stagecoach red moquette), they've installed real first class seats in the FC compartment though.

I don't think these are the same seats; the ones I'm thinking of are about three times thicker and many times softer than the SWT ones. And they were definitely fitted throughout in the standard class on the TPE 158s.

 

[northwichcat]

I don't think these are the same seats; the ones I'm thinking of are about three times thicker and many times softer than the SWT ones. And they were definitely fitted throughout in the standard class on the TPE 158s.

These ones do look to be the original seating, but possibly new flip down tables.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3623/3512564864_9d537da573.jpg

 

[sprinterguy]

The Transpennine 158 seats used the original BREL seat frames fitted with a new type of seat cushion, so it's the new cushions that made all the difference!

I also think it would be a good idea for some seats to be refurbished and to replace some of the poor ones in older trains such as the non-refurbished 142s and 150s.

This has happened in a limited manner, as when the Central Trains and Wales and West (later FGW) class 158s received new style seats, the original class 158 seats were refitted into those companies' class 153 units, which I think is a very good idea.

Also I'm led to believe that the first class seats in the SWT class 159/1s were reclaimed from the then "One" operated class 170s.

I imagine that these days, with "green" presurres a big issue that once the original seats are removed they are broken down into their individual component (metal seat frame, plastic outer frame, foam padding, etc) and recycled according to each material. I would also HOPE that a good few seats are retained by the TOCs to act as spares, although as the majority of Sprinter era units have now been through a refurbishment with new seats, there will be fewer and fewer units fitted with the original design of seats.

My personal favourite seats for levels of comfort are the Richmond seats in ex-Northern Spirit 156s and the seats on the Chiltern 168s.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

These ones do look to be the original seating, but possibly new flip down tables.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3623/3512564864_9d537da573.jpg

No, they're thinner ( the ones I'm thinking of were at least 2½ times thicker ) and also look the wrong shape on the cushion - I don't recall there being any sharp changes of angle where one's back goes.

I am wondering about e-mailing around to try to get the reference / identifications but given the franchise splits I'm not sure who would be the right people to contact. Northern? FTP? Someone else?

 

[northwichcat]

No, they're thinner ( the ones I'm thinking of were at least 2½ times thicker ) and also look the wrong shape on the cushion - I don't recall there being any sharp changes of angle where one's back goes.

The original ones were in one of two styles:
Style A: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:158755_Leeds_Interior.JPG
Style B: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/158868_Interior.JPG

The SWT one in the link I posted is style A but with new covers which make the shape of the seat more obvious.

Style C is a non-original type of seating that was post-privitisation that may be what you're thinking of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:158748_Interior.JPG

 

[starrymarkb]

Style B is also un-original - that is a Wales and West refurb - the seats from the 158s went into 153s which became especially putrid...

 

[northwichcat]

Style B is also un-original - that is a Wales and West refurb - the seats from the 158s went into 153s which became especially putrid...

Oh Ok I thought it was original because that style of seats was on the NWT 156s that were cascaded from the Midlands in RR days.

 

[j0hn0]

I personally think the 142s were more comfortable when they had the original bus style bench seating rather than the individual bucket seating, which is very hard and doesn't fit the shape of my back very well!

The most comfortable of the recent seating types that I know is the thick soft dark maroon ones that were fitted to the Trans-Pennine 158s; I believe a few units may even still have these seats with different coloured upholstery fitted? ( Anyone know what the reference name and number for these nice soft seats is? They'd be perfect for the New Giant Hovercraft... )

you must have REALLY short legs

 

[Royston Vasey]

Style B is also un-original - that is a Wales and West refurb - the seats from the 158s went into 153s which became especially putrid...

WAGN also put these into the 317/6s in the late 90s, so they're definitely post-privatisation. They are very comfortable IMHO, and 2+2 on a 317 is a luxury!

 

[Failed Unit]

WAGN also put these into the 317/6s in the late 90s, so they're definitely post-privatisation. They are very comfortable IMHO, and 2+2 on a 317 is a luxury!

They are the chapman seats, BR refurbished the 153's / 156's in many areas with them circa around 1996. On the central region the refurbishment started pre-privatisation but can't remember when it finished. Now EMT are going to get 156's with Richmond's :cry:

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The original ones were in one of two styles:
Style A: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:158755_Leeds_Interior.JPG
Style B: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/158868_Interior.JPG

The SWT one in the link I posted is style A but with new covers which make the shape of the seat more obvious.

Style C is a non-original type of seating that was post-privitisation that may be what you're thinking of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:158748_Interior.JPG

Style A looks closest in shape, but still not thick enough to be the ones I'm thinking of. And certainly were not striped; definitly all over maroon but also definitely not first class ones. I think I'm going to have to start e-mailing round aren't I?!

Style B is horrible; one of the worst types of seat on the network - especially in the 153s, another case where the original seats were far more comfortable as well as better looking! Plus, in the 153s fitted with style B it is impossible to see out of the windows properly as the seats seem to be very much lower than the original ones!



And no J0hn0, I'm not short - I'm 5 ft 10! I agree the bus type bench seats in the 142s could have been a bit higher off the floor; my comment was aimed at how uncomfortable the new seats are compared to those.

 

[northwichcat]

Style A looks closest in shape, but still not thick enough to be the ones I'm thinking of. And certainly were not striped; definitly all over maroon but also definitely not first class ones. I think I'm going to have to start e-mailing round aren't I?!

Those seats are fairly thick (especially compared to 175s and rock hard 185s.) The purple stripe is a new type of seat covering - they haven't been like that for very long. Are you sure you weren't in declassified First Class when a unit was on a service not offering FC?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Quite sure it wasn't declassified, because it wasn't just the one trip - it was many trips between Leeds and Huddersfield / Manchester and between Piccadilly and Oxford Road in Manchester in the days when I was still working through the 158s for haulage.

It was also in all three carriages ( or two if it was a 2 car set! ) throughout.

Anyway, I've e-mailed Northern now - but have to wait for tomorrow because my contact there is out of the office.

No great hurry - it'll be at least 3 years before the New Giant Hovercraft is running around even if the funding turns up instantly, but it would still be nice to have the references to hand ready.

 

[northwichcat]

I've just thought are you talking about the MetroTrain 158/9s?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

No, they were definitely in the the regular TPE fleet 158 7xx and 158 8xx series.


If you're about to tell me the 158/9s have still got the very soft seats fitted, then that is of great interest to me...

 

[Helvellyn]

Style A looks closest in shape, but still not thick enough to be the ones I'm thinking of. And certainly were not striped; definitly all over maroon but also definitely not first class ones. I think I'm going to have to start e-mailing round aren't I?!

It is those seats! SWT got some ex TPE 158s and they were used before refurbishment, and they put new covers on them. 2 times thicker than that would be very, very thick seat cushions and leg room would be terrible. Think your memory is playing tricks. As has been said, Northern Spirit used new seat cushions, and the ones in the First Class areas (using the same original seat shells) were a bit thicker, but also had more leg room.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

OK right, thank you. Now all I need to do is identify the exact references for them...

 

[WillPS]

The original ones were in one of two styles:
Style A: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:158755_Leeds_Interior.JPG
Style B: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/158868_Interior.JPG

The SWT one in the link I posted is style A but with new covers which make the shape of the seat more obvious.

Style C is a non-original type of seating that was post-privitisation that may be what you're thinking of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:158748_Interior.JPG

Style A is the WYPTE 158 seating (they specified theirs differently)
Style B is Chapman seating, as used by Wales & West
Style C is Richmond, used by FGW in their 158s.

The original 158 seats (apart from the WYPTE ones) are those seen in use with SWT.

At least one other type of standard seating exists, and that's the Grammar seating used by EMT.

 

[Jordy]

The 158s used on South TPE had grey seating opposed to the blue with a maroon top on North TPE (the completly maroon ones were First Class.)

Nah, the South TPE 158s were the same as the North TPE ones, however one of the West Yorkshire Metro 158/9s would occasionally find their way onto these services back in Arriva/Northern Spirit days, these had grey seating. The usual TPE 158s had the blue seating, certainly when First took over (and the 158/9s went to Northern) only the 158s with blue seating worked on South TPE

Central Trains and FNW also had the same type of seating.

FNW had the grey seating (I presume it was original?) and I guess Central did at first, but certainly at some point they refurbished them with light blue Central trains seating. The grey seating can be seen here

On another note there was also this interior, which I believe was the work of Virgin!

 

[WillPS]

That was Wessex I think? They only did it to a few though, and I'm not sure any remain.

 

[ailsa]

That was Wessex I think? They only did it to a few though, and I'm not sure any remain.

It does look like the Wessex ones, and I've not seen one on the Cardiff-Pompeys for ages. I think they've all been FGW-ised now.

 

[northwichcat]

Nah, the South TPE 158s were the same as the North TPE ones, however one of the West Yorkshire Metro 158/9s would occasionally find their way onto these services back in Arriva/Northern Spirit days, these had grey seating. The usual TPE 158s had the blue seating, certainly when First took over (and the 158/9s went to Northern) only the 158s with blue seating worked on South TPE

I didn't travel reguraly on South TPE when 158s were being used but there were some Northern Spirit transpenninexpress livered units with grey seats on that service that never seemed to make their way on to North TPE. These had a first class section so couldn't have been WYPTE ones. I've heard previously they these were ex-Cross Country 158s rather than the ones built for transpennine.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Style B is horrible; one of the worst types of seat on the network - especially in the 153s, another case where the original seats were far more comfortable as well as better looking! Plus, in the 153s fitted with style B it is impossible to see out of the windows properly as the seats seem to be very much lower than the original ones!

You haven't sat on this type of seating then: http://sites.google.com/site/pacerc...--class-142/P2160021.JPG?height=300&width=400 ?

I don't think style C is better than style B. Both types appear on Northern 156s and style B doesn't mean your knees are jammed in to the back of the seat in front which style C does (unless of course you sit at a table seat.)

 

[Peter Mugridge]

You haven't sat on this type of seating then: http://sites.google.com/site/pacerc...--class-142/P2160021.JPG?height=300&width=400 ?

Not sure... That looks like a lower backed version of the bucket seats I don't like in the 142s? Whereabouts will I find units with the seating in that picture?