The 2019 General Election - Campaign Debate and Discussion

[Esker-pades]

Noting the "by 2030" rider to the comment, you can be sure that Cornwall will be at the end of the availability time period, as is usually the case.

There and anywhere in Scotland north of Perth or east of Aberdeen.

 

[158747]

Labour has announced 'Free Fibre Broadband' for ALL. by 2030 Nationalise part of Open Reach and create 'British Broadband'

Sauce :https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50427369

Looks like Corbyn has been reading the “how to make promises you can’t keep” section of the How To Be An MP manual.

 

[underbank]

So we're ignoring HMRC's legal distinction and going off Wikipedia now? Christ on a bike.

There is no "legal definition" of tax avoidance. There is no Act of Parliament defining the term. HMRC have just made up their own definition and decided to use it as fact. As said by someone above, it's up to the Judges in the tax tribunals and courts to decide on a case by case basis whether a "tax avoidance" act is legal or not - not HMRC. They're not above the law and can't write their own laws.

It's a long standing definition arising from common use which says tax evasion=illegal, tax avoidance=legal. If HMRC wish to change the long standing common usage of the language, then they should ask Parliament to create a law to clarify exactly what constitutes the terms.

 

[ainsworth74]

There is no Act of Parliament defining the term. HMRC have just made up their own definition and decided to use it as fact. As said by someone above, it's up to the Judges in the tax tribunals and courts to decide on a case by case basis whether a "tax avoidance" act is legal or not - not HMRC. They're not above the law and can't write their own laws.

They just like to pretend they are and scare people into thinking they are!

 

[Tetchytyke]

There is no "legal definition" of tax avoidance.

I never said there was. Indeed there can't be: illegal tax avoidance is tax evasion.

HMRC are attempting to differentiate between those who legitimately use tax reliefs for the purpose they were intended, and those who are skirting somewhat closer to the line through the use of loopholes and creative interpretation. I don't see why this is in any way controversial?

To try and get back on topic, anyone who is comparing complex and creative interpretation of tax law by big corporations to the use of an ISA is being disingenuous in the extreme. Those doing so usually have a vested interest in pretending that aggressive tax planning is no big deal, and that anyone who criticises it is some mad commie.

Interestingly, the criticism of Corbyn is pretty much along those lines...

 

[Tetchytyke]

They just like to pretend they are and scare people into thinking they are!

HMRC make a lot of errors in calculating tax. A lot of errors.

But those "frightened" into paying money back are usually those who have tried to avoid paying tax. My sympathy with those facing large tax bills because they used personal service companies to try and squirm out of paying income tax and NICs is muted, shall we say.

 

[bussnapperwm]

And now another reason not to vote for the Tories...

https://www.rt.com/uk/473546-tommy-robinson-endorses-boris-johnson/

Former EDL leader Tommy Robinson has voiced his support for UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson...

Speaking outside a London courthouse, Robinson told Ruptly..."if we believe in democracy, we have to have Brexit. So, yeah, go Boris,” Robinson said with a wink.

Robinson was appearing in court for a defamation case over comments he made online about a Syrian teenager who appeared in a viral bullying video.

So if you want to vote for a party which has racist thugs like Robinson supporting it then feel free to do so, but if you have any morals, or don't want to support a potential Russian Stooge in Boris, then vote for another party.

Use your vote wisely.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

So if you want to vote for a party which has racist thugs like Robinson supporting it then feel free to do so, but if you have any morals, or don't want to support a potential Russian Stooge in Boris, then vote for another party.

When you mentioned "a potential Russian Stooge", why did a certain other party leader with Socialist pretensions come to mind....

 

[bramling]

And now another reason not to vote for the Tories...

https://www.rt.com/uk/473546-tommy-robinson-endorses-boris-johnson/



So if you want to vote for a party which has racist thugs like Robinson supporting it then feel free to do so, but if you have any morals, or don't want to support a potential Russian Stooge in Boris, then vote for another party.

Use your vote wisely.

Reminds me of the mayoral election when Livingstone was defeated. A work colleague of mine sent a rather ill-judged email suggesting people should vote for Ken. A friend of mine who had hitherto never voted in any election throughout his life then went out and voted Johnson with the sole purpose of cancelling out that original person’s Livingstone vote.

Seriously, there may or may not be good reasons not to vote for a particular party, but to suggest not voting based on one individual choosing to support them is pretty absurd.

I won’t be changing my vote though, as things stand at present all my household will likely be voting Conservative - including one who has hitherto chosen not to vote but on this occasion wishes to vote based on the sole issue of Brexit. If that is a widespread trend then it would certainly have interesting effects on the results.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

[QUOTE="bussnapperwm, post: 4289777, member: 70950]__but if you have any morals, or don't want to support a potential Russian Stooge in Boris, then vote for another party.

Use your vote wisely.[/QUOTE]

so you are obviously not voting Corbyn then - a proven Russian stooge

 

[507021]

so you are obviously not voting Corbyn then - a proven Russian stooge

What proof?

 

[AlterEgo]

And now another reason not to vote for the Tories...

https://www.rt.com/uk/473546-tommy-robinson-endorses-boris-johnson/



So if you want to vote for a party which has racist thugs like Robinson supporting it then feel free to do so, but if you have any morals, or don't want to support a potential Russian Stooge in Boris, then vote for another party.

Use your vote wisely.

Meanwhile, Nick Griffin has endorsed Corbyn, which just goes to show you shouldn’t draw attention to these things.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Talk about politician endorsements is somewhat similar to "so-called celebrity" endorsements of products, which anyone with a modicum of common sense would totally ignore.

Every time I see TV trails for the programme "I'm a celebrity, get me out of here", I usually think "why?"

 

[Howardh]

I won’t be changing my vote though, as things stand at present all my household will likely be voting Conservative - including one who has hitherto chosen not to vote but on this occasion wishes to vote based on the sole issue of Brexit. If that is a widespread trend then it would certainly have interesting effects on the results.

In this house we're holding our noses and voting Labour in the hope of a remain/referendum coalition. Interesting to see on TV John Curtis (sp?) the polls guru suggests the chances of Labour having an overall majority are "nil or next-to-nil". Probably down to the SNP's strength as Labour can't win any Scots seats.
But a Lab/SNP/LD coalition is still a possible outcome.

 

[Howardh]

Talk about politician endorsements is somewhat similar to "so-called celebrity" endorsements of products, which anyone with a modicum of common sense would totally ignore.

Every time I see TV trails for the programme "I'm a celebrity, get me out of here", I usually think "why?"

I don't think I could name a "celebrity" if my life depended on it. Maybe a couple of youtubers like Jay Foreman!! But TV is such a turn-off these days with the possible exception of current affairs I'd rather stay in blissful ignorance. Are the Spice Girlies still going??
Right now the Euro Curling's on - now they ARE celebrities to me!!

 

[Puffing Devil]

I won’t be changing my vote though, as things stand at present all my household will likely be voting Conservative - including one who has hitherto chosen not to vote but on this occasion wishes to vote based on the sole issue of Brexit. If that is a widespread trend then it would certainly have interesting effects on the results.

Given your posts on the Brexit thread, I expected nothing else.

 

[Howardh]

Given your posts on the Brexit thread, I expected nothing else.

Would be nice if someone could sell Brexit and the Conservatives to me; if they can explain why and how my life will be better with both then I could vote for it - and I'm in a marginal. But I don't hold my breath.

 

[baz962]

Would be nice if someone could sell Brexit and the Conservatives to me; if they can explain why and how my life will be better with both then I could vote for it - and I'm in a marginal. But I don't hold my breath.

It wouldn't necessarily be better. But I reckon it would be no better or worse under Labour , especially if they have a coalition. NB ... My opinion and not fact.

 

[Howardh]

It wouldn't necessarily be better. But I reckon it would be no better or worse under Labour , especially if they have a coalition. NB ... My opinion and not fact.

The status quo is not to be sniffed at; scrap Brexit and we can spend the next five years concentrating on stuff that really matters.

 

[VauxhallandI]

It wouldn't necessarily be better. But I reckon it would be no better or worse under Labour , especially if they have a coalition. NB ... My opinion and not fact.

For Brexiteers and Conservatives it would seem as long as it makes someone else's life worse then that will do.

 

[baz962]

For Brexiteers and Conservatives it would seem as long as it makes someone else's life worse then that will do.

Someone's life will always be worse , however it is better to have the few worse off than the many. All I can tell you is , after leaving school in 86 , my life was pretty much bubbling along nicely until 99 , two years after Labour took power . In 2010 it was really bad and I went bankrupt. I'm just a normal working man . Since Conservatives took power in 2010 , my life has improved dramatically. Labour left a note in the treasury, after pretty much bankrupting the country. Since Conservatives took power , the tax free allowance has almost doubled and minimum wage is up quite nicely , everyone , even the low paid are much better off.

 

[lyndhurst25]

Where did you get the idea that the last Labour government almost bankrupted the country from? Maybe the 2007-8 global financial crisis and the associated economic recession passed you by. I don't know if that had any contribution to you personally going bankrupt, but I imagine that it can't have helped. Under a Conservative government since 2010, our country's national debt has pretty much doubled. The myth that he Conservatives are better at managing the economy than Labour does not stand up to scrutiny.

 

[baz962]

Where did you get the idea that the last Labour government almost bankrupted the country from? Maybe the 2007-8 global financial crisis and the associated economic recession passed you by. I don't know if that had any contribution to you personally going bankrupt, but I imagine that it can't have helped. Under a Conservative government since 2010, our country's national debt has pretty much doubled. The myth that he Conservatives are better at managing the economy than Labour does not stand up to scrutiny.

Didn't say they were better , I just believe Labour won't be any better , just if anything will be worse.

 

[Grimsby town]

Someone's life will always be worse , however it is better to have the few worse off than the many. All I can tell you is , after leaving school in 86 , my life was pretty much bubbling along nicely until 99 , two years after Labour took power . In 2010 it was really bad and I went bankrupt. I'm just a normal working man . Since Conservatives took power in 2010 , my life has improved dramatically. Labour left a note in the treasury, after pretty much bankrupting the country. Since Conservatives took power , the tax free allowance has almost doubled and minimum wage is up quite nicely , everyone , even the low paid are much better off.

The constant tory lies about Labour destroying the economy. Yes Blair had hand in the financial crash but Major and Thatcher are just to blame for not properly regulating the banks. Before the crash the GDP to debt ratio in the UK was around 40%. This was 20% lower than Germany and France at the time. When the Conservatives came in with the Lib Dems the debt ratio was still below Germany. Germanys debt ratio is now 25% less than the UK's.

I will defend the Conservatives by saying that cuts were needed and the public finances needed improving but cutting services for the poorest while cutting taxes for the richest in society was indefensible. We could have eliminated the deficit years ago had the Conservatives not cut taxes for the wealthy but no we are in a position were they are promising both tax cuts and spending increases while we still have a deficit. Oh and the increase in the tax free allowance was a Lib Dem policy. Too many people give all the credit for 9k tuition fees to Clegg without acknowledging one of the best policies of the coalition was his.

 

[507021]

Someone's life will always be worse , however it is better to have the few worse off than the many.

Why should anybody be worse off at the expense of others?

I'm just a normal working man . Since Conservatives took power in 2010 , my life has improved dramatically.

I work 40 hours a week (often more) to provide for my family and I'm also a sandwich carer, caring for my elderly father as well as my two daughters. The Tories have done absolutely nothing to improve life for me or anybody in my family.

Labour left a note in the treasury, after pretty much bankrupting the country.

The global recession would have happened regardless who was in power.

 

[baz962]

Why should anybody be worse off at the expense of others?



I work 40 hours a week (often more) to provide for my family and I'm also a sandwich carer, caring for my elderly father as well as my two daughters. The Tories have done absolutely nothing to improve life for me or anybody in my family.



The global recession would have happened regardless who was in power.

Nobody should be worse off . I was worse off under Labour, they did nothing for me. But my point was not to promote the Tories , but to point out that if anyone thinks Labour will be better , then good luck with that , because they absolutely will not.

 

[507021]

I was worse off under Labour, they did nothing for me.

In what sense, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[mmh]

No idea how to start a poll, but one question - will you go out and vote or not?

Yes, but largely because I always have done and it's ingrained in me that you must. However, I think I'll probably spoil my paper, which is something I've never done before and never thought I would.

All the more surprising looking back, considering my constituency is very marginal.

 

[baz962]

In what sense, if you don't mind me asking?

See above posts.. but to summarise. Living in a room , earning a quarter of what I do now. Went bankrupt , not seen my oldest son for 12 year's and the ex kept ignoring court orders to let me , with no punishment. This last bit hasn't improved under the Tories , but I had given up by that time. Wether or not any particular party would of improved anything or not isn't the point , as I'm sure it was my own desire and commitment to improve things, that did improve it . However the fact is , my life is better in all ways, other than the situation with my son. I can't attribute it to the Tories , but they didn't stop my improvement or stand in my way. For what it's worth I don't like any of the political parties, or indeed politicians , but I think Labour would be the next worst and Lib Dems the next worst after.

 

[507021]

See above posts.. but to summarise. Living in a room , earning a quarter of what I do now. Went bankrupt , not seen my oldest son for 12 year's and the ex kept ignoring court orders to let me , with no punishment. This last bit hasn't improved under the Tories , but I had given up by that time. Wether or not any particular party would of improved anything or not isn't the point , as I'm sure it was my own desire and commitment to improve things, that did improve it . However the fact is , my life is better in all ways, other than the situation with my son. I can't attribute it to the Tories , but they didn't stop my improvement or stand in my way. For what it's worth I don't like any of the political parties, or indeed politicians , but I think Labour would be the next worst and Lib Dems the next worst after.

That's fair enough, I'm glad things have improved for you and I apologise if I came across as rude. That wasn't my intention.

I'm sorry to hear that, I know how it feels and it's awful. I hope you can see your son again soon.