Ways to improve the First Glasgow Network

[PaulMc7]

I think ‘the One’ has to be looked at, particularly at peak times. This route is extremely busy from about 2ish onwards and progressively gets busier. That’s not to mention during the holidays it is the main bus to Balloch/Helensburgh. I’ve seen E300s absolutely bursting without exaggeration. Even the B9TLs seem to struggle they are full upstairs and downstairs.

I never really felt like the E300s were suitable for a route like that imo. It would be nice to see a single that would allow for more capacity. The B9TLs could be replaced by the E500MMC or something along those lines. They could be based at Caledonia so they could be used during the day/weekends on the busy 5, 75 routes. This would allow more B9TLs to be refurbished as I believe they are one of the very few which haven’t been touched and still have the original seat coverings. They look quite tired now.

SK68 LXD (33215) on the 2 today spotted in Baillieston. Rare to see a decker on the 2 these days let alone a branded 75 one. They suit being on this route it was pretty busy.

Yeah the 1s to their credit are probably the most busy service now certainly until at least Old Kilpatrick. Between Bowling and Dumbarton can be a bit quiet but the rest of the route can be extremely busy and the 1C and 1D are never that quiet either. Yeah the E300s as far as the seating goes at least won't last much longer from what I've seen. Looks very worn out on most of them. At peaks it gets to the point drivers just seem to keep letting people on because people charge on and some people need specific 1s to their destination as they don't all go to the same place. I remember when they were still relatively new that one time I got the first 1B from Helensburgh into the city centre and the bus was even full from the end of Cardross. Out of the Dumbarton 1s the 1B is probably most quiet but definitely still like the others in summer.

The 2 could definitely do with more deckers tbh. Even at fairly random off peak times they can be extremely busy and it's another really successful route so definitely worthy of new buses. Would help move the E300s onto more suitable routes too. Could push more of them onto the 6/6A, 8,90 and even maybe the 16 or make the X4 all E300 again

 

[awsnews]

Yeah the 1s to their credit are probably the most busy service now certainly until at least Old Kilpatrick. Between Bowling and Dumbarton can be a bit quiet but the rest of the route can be extremely busy and the 1C and 1D are never that quiet either. Yeah the E300s as far as the seating goes at least won't last much longer from what I've seen. Looks very worn out on most of them. At peaks it gets to the point drivers just seem to keep letting people on because people charge on and some people need specific 1s to their destination as they don't all go to the same place. I remember when they were still relatively new that one time I got the first 1B from Helensburgh into the city centre and the bus was even full from the end of Cardross. Out of the Dumbarton 1s the 1B is probably most quiet but definitely still like the others in summer.

The 2 could definitely do with more deckers tbh. Even at fairly random off peak times they can be extremely busy and it's another really successful route so definitely worthy of new buses. Would help move the E300s onto more suitable routes too. Could push more of them onto the 6/6A, 8,90 and even maybe the 16 or make the X4 all E300 again

Having used the first 1B on several occassions (due to the absence of the train) I have never come across more than half a dozen people on the first 1B out of Helensburgh, I am surprised it is still commercial at the time of the day. It is noticable that the seats on the more recent E300s that have been transferred in are in much worse condition than those that were new to Dumbarton even though the arrivals are newer. During peak times 'the one' is really suffering due to congestion at key points on the route, getting in and out of Osbourne Street in the city, Dumbarton Road through Scotstoun up to Yoker Ferry and again through Dalmuir. Unless improvements are made to improve the routes for public transport there isn't a lot First Glasgow can do to significantly improve things.

 

[PaulMc7]

Having used the first 1B on several occassions (due to the absence of the train) I have never come across more than half a dozen people on the first 1B out of Helensburgh, I am surprised it is still commercial at the time of the day. It is noticable that the seats on the more recent E300s that have been transferred in are in much worse condition than those that were new to Dumbarton even though the arrivals are newer. During peak times 'the one' is really suffering due to congestion at key points on the route, getting in and out of Osbourne Street in the city, Dumbarton Road through Scotstoun up to Yoker Ferry and again through Dalmuir. Unless improvements are made to improve the routes for public transport there isn't a lot First Glasgow can do to significantly improve things.

Yeah the 1B is definitely far quieter than the 1/1A. Most 1s are late even outside of peak time tbh especially towards Glasgow from Clydebank onwards. Always find that it's mostly the 1 ending up late enough to come with the 1B after it by the time it gets to me just before Scotstoun but the 1A and 1D have even got worse lately. City centre definitely needs reworked. A ban on cars would certainly be a start on that and retiming of the 1s would go a long way too. They are very odd between Scotstoun and Clydebank westbound especially with them all taking different amounts of time and going towards Glasgow the 12mins between the 2 places needs to be about 16/17 minimum from experience

 

[156478]

https://www.firstgroup.com/greater-glasgow/routes-and-maps/x1

Just found this. Wonder how much it'll actually help the X1

This will be the "evidence" that First will use to justify cutting the X1 further on down the line in the future. - their attempt in making the service more attractive, with a generic page on their website with a routemap by Pindar Creative- the only cost is the map, other than that it's cost them nothing. A generic page that very few people will actually see.

 

[PaulMc7]

This will be the "evidence" that First will use to justify cutting the X1 further on down the line in the future. - their attempt in making the service more attractive, with a generic page on their website with a routemap by Pindar Creative- the only cost is the map, other than that it's cost them nothing. A generic page that very few people will actually see.

Yeah definitely. Should be advertised on their other busier services around Hamilton tbh or at least with leaflets being handed out in the town centre

 

[156478]

Yeah definitely. Should be advertised on their other busier services around Hamilton tbh or at least with leaflets being handed out in the town centre

Even a modest run of posters to put on the frames behind the drivers cabs for all the buses out of Blantyre would be cheap and easy to do and they would probably cost pennies as they can print them within the business at Blantyre Depot or at the Shop at Motherwell even, but this is this is First after all and especially for a route they are desperate to ditch.

I'm surprised they havent even made a similar half hearted page for the X2.

 

[PaulMc7]

The 1s for me at peaks sometimes isn't even enough. Yesterday, just before 5 pm there were close to 100 people at the bus stop at Oswald St all ending up on 1s. It took a 1B,1D and 1E to come to empty it out because of how busy they were from before that stop. There is an issue though that I've noticed and it's despite being so frequent that even if one of them is late it ends up meaning the next one is almost guaranteed to be full. Could they end up with more expresses like that down that corridor to say Faifley or Duntocher again like the 217 of old? Could even just have the 2s run to Clydebank or Hardgate and less 81s to make space for that

I'm normally someone who believes too many expresses can be overkill but I'm not opposed to it down that corridor as there's been so much success already. I created the following suggestions considering the fact that the 1Ds only operate Clydebank to Mountblow in evenings and Sundays anyway along with some other journeys and the 1B is far quieter than the other Dumbarton 1s

I also think the 6 could be cut back slightly too with this idea if it wasn't just a peak thing. Could end up with the following tbh:

1- Remain as current
1A- Remain as current
1B- Renumber 205 and run Dumbarton Asda to Helensburgh only
1C- Remain as current but from Stockwell place with X4 but renumber X6
1D- renumber 82 and run Clydebank to Mountblow only
New 1D- City Centre to Duntocher
1E- Run all day with the current route but renumber as 1B
1F- City Centre to Faifley
2/2A-Baillieston to Clydebank/Hardgate alternatively every 15 mins each
6-Calderwood to Scotstoun West only

81- Cut to every 20 mins to alternate to Duntocher with every 20 mins 1D. Also, extend to Clydebank Asda

The timetable from Osborne St could work quite well-meaning an express bus every 5 mins too.

Osborne St:

1-00 and 30
1A-10 and 40
1B-20 and 50
1D-05,25,45
1F-15,35,55

Stockwell Place:

X4-10,30,50
X6-00,20,40

 

[CM]

The 1s for me at peaks sometimes isn't even enough. Yesterday, just before 5 pm there were close to 100 people at the bus stop at Oswald St all ending up on 1s. It took a 1B,1D and 1E to come to empty it out because of how busy they were from before that stop. There is an issue though that I've noticed and it's despite being so frequent that even if one of them is late it ends up meaning the next one is almost guaranteed to be full. Could they end up with more expresses like that down that corridor to say Faifley or Duntocher again like the 217 of old? Could even just have the 2s run to Clydebank or Hardgate and less 81s to make space for that

I'm normally someone who believes too many expresses can be overkill but I'm not opposed to it down that corridor as there's been so much success already. I created the following suggestions considering the fact that the 1Ds only operate Clydebank to Mountblow in evenings and Sundays anyway along with some other journeys and the 1B is far quieter than the other Dumbarton 1s

I also think the 6 could be cut back slightly too with this idea if it wasn't just a peak thing. Could end up with the following tbh:

1- Remain as current
1A- Remain as current
1B- Renumber 205 and run Dumbarton Asda to Helensburgh only
1C- Remain as current but from Stockwell place with X4 but renumber X6
1D- renumber 82 and run Clydebank to Mountblow only
New 1D- City Centre to Duntocher
1E- Run all day with the current route but renumber as 1B
1F- City Centre to Faifley
2/2A-Baillieston to Clydebank/Hardgate alternatively every 15 mins each
6-Calderwood to Scotstoun West only

81- Cut to every 20 mins to alternate to Duntocher with every 20 mins 1D. Also, extend to Clydebank Asda

The timetable from Osborne St could work quite well-meaning an express bus every 5 mins too.

Osborne St:

1-00 and 30
1A-10 and 40
1B-20 and 50
1D-05,25,45
1F-15,35,55

Stockwell Place:

X4-10,30,50
X6-00,20,40

Cutting the 6 back to Scotstoun West would go down like a ton of bricks as you'd effectively be cutting off people from Clydebank, Yoker etc from places like Anniesland and Gartnavel Hospital.

 

[PaulMc7]

Even a modest run of posters to put on the frames behind the drivers cabs for all the buses out of Blantyre would be cheap and easy to do and they would probably cost pennies as they can print them within the business at Blantyre Depot or at the Shop at Motherwell even, but this is this is First after all and especially for a route they are desperate to ditch.

I'm surprised they havent even made a similar half hearted page for the X2.

Yeah even just a batch of them for say the 201, 226 and 267 would probably be enough and maybe the 227. I don't see them keeping the route going for much longer after Christmas tbh and going by the complaints regarding them failing to show up and being constantly late at peaks it already feels like a service they've dropped in their minds. I'd be amazed if that X2 is ever busy tbh. I really don't see it lasting either. The 8 was always busier than the 19A in Robroyston but even at that, it's not overly busy. I believe the last 8 each way from Robroyston is around 6pm which does show the lack of a need for more of a service.

 

[PaulMc7]

Cutting the 6 back to Scotstoun West would go down like a ton of bricks as you'd effectively be cutting off people from Clydebank, Yoker etc from places like Anniesland and Gartnavel Hospital.

M11 covers part of Yoker, Anniesland and Gartnavel anyway and it's by far the quieter end of the 6 route. Yoker has such overkill for buses during the day too and the 6 reliability is horrendous. It would still only take a 2min walk at most to swap over to a 1 or 2 as well with the new terminus so it's not cutting anything off when a very good connection is still there

 

[CM]

M11 covers part of Yoker, Anniesland and Gartnavel anyway and it's by far the quieter end of the 6 route. Yoker has such overkill for buses during the day too and the 6 reliability is horrendous. It would still only take a 2min walk at most to swap over to a 1 or 2 as well with the new terminus so it's not cutting anything off when a very good connection is still there

The M11 and 6 go completely different routes between Anniesland and Clydebank apart from a very short part between Kelso Street and the bottom of Yokermill Road. The M11 also doesn't serve Barnes Street either and instead goes direct along Dumbarton Road so you would be cutting people off. People don't like having to get two buses everywhere which has been clearly proven by the people in Clydebank and Drumchapel who have to get 2 buses to get to the QEU Hospital.

 

[PaulMc7]

The M11 and 6 go completely different routes between Anniesland and Clydebank apart from a very short part between Kelso Street and the bottom of Yokermill Road. The M11 also doesn't serve Barnes Street either and instead goes direct along Dumbarton Road so you would be cutting people off. People don't like having to get two buses everywhere which has been clearly proven by the people in Clydebank and Drumchapel who have to get 2 buses to get to the QEU Hospital.

Hospital link from Drumchapel was so underused but I'm surprised there's not a Clydebank to QEUH bus since the 1 stop bus was cut. I think for a Drumchapel one to work it would need to probably follow the 1C route but anytime there's been 2 different buses through Alderman Road and down Polnoon 1 has failed terribly so no idea how they could work it. I think when it involves frequent services getting 2 buses is fine. Thornwood definitely shows that because so many people swap off of the 77 on one side and straight onto 2s and 3s. Would be a similar thing with the 6 especially as the 1s would be every 5mins and still 8 2s an hour so 20 buses an hour all in

 

[CM]

Hospital link from Drumchapel was so underused but I'm surprised there's not a Clydebank to QEUH bus. I think for a Drumchapel one to work it would need to probably follow the 1C route but anytime there's been 2 different buses through Alderman Road and down Polnoon 1 has failed terribly so no idea how they could work it. I think when it involves frequent services getting 2 buses is fine. Thornwood definitely shows that because so many people swap off of the 77 on one side and straight onto 2s and 3s. Would be a similar thing with the 6 especially as the 1s would be every 5mins and still 8 2s an hour so 20 buses an hour all in

Try telling people with mobility impairments to get two buses out and two buses back... It's not all just about frequencies, you have to actually think about the people who use these services as well.

 

[PaulMc7]

Try telling people with mobility impairments to get two buses out and two buses back... It's not all just about frequencies, you have to actually think about the people who use these services as well.

I do especially considering I suffer a lot from my own leg and back problems. Even to put in a hospital service again something would need to be cut. Currently 23 buses through Yoker then add the M11 onto that. The 6 is nowhere near as busy as the 1s and 2s plus despite them not being reliable the 6 is even worse because of route length more than anything so cutting off the quietest part makes the most sense not to mention it would be a good mileage saver for the 6s operated from Scotstoun. Would literally be coming out to start straight away

 

[CM]

I do especially considering I suffer a lot from my own leg and back problems. Even to put in a hospital service again something would need to be cut. Currently 23 buses through Yoker then add the M11 onto that. The 6 is nowhere near as busy as the 1s and 2s plus despite them not being reliable the 6 is even worse because of route length more than anything so cutting off the quietest part makes the most sense not to mention it would be a good mileage saver for the 6s operated from Scotstoun. Would literally be coming out to start straight away

Again, the M11 does not go via Barnes Street like the 1s, 2s and 6, it goes via Dumbarton Road which between Yokermill Road and Argyll Road is mostly industrial. I've been on plenty of 6s that have taken on a decent load at Clydebank. Not every journey is going to have a full standing load.

 

[route101]

I think eventually the 6 will be split .Clydebank is a logical terminus though

 

[PaulMc7]

Again, the M11 does not go via Barnes Street like the 1s, 2s and 6, it goes via Dumbarton Road which between Yokermill Road and Argyll Road is mostly industrial. I've been on plenty of 6s that have taken on a decent load at Clydebank. Not every journey is going to have a full standing load.

That's what I'm saying though. The M11 doesn't need to go that way because there's so many other buses plus with I've suggested in this case 20 is definitely plenty. Even back before Simplicity the 66 was always far quieter than the 62 and express buses. I've seen far more 6s being extremely quiet than busy and I'm talking about my local services too so I'm not suggesting things based on nothing. The 6 needs to change one way or another and this is as good as any suggestion I've seen plus since First are aiming to cut PVR at every set of changes this one would certainly work for that

 

[route101]

SK68 LXD (33215) on the 2 today spotted in Baillieston. Rare to see a decker on the 2 these days let alone a branded 75 one. They suit being on this route it was pretty busy.

See a few geminis on the 2 , had a 75 branded e400mmc on the 31 other night and one was on the 38.

 

[PaulMc7]

See a few geminis on the 2 , had a 75 branded e400mmc on the 31 other night and one was on the 38.

Spotted a few of them on the 2 as well. Seen a 34 branded bus on the 2 yesterday as well. Had a really old decker on the 1D on bonfire night too. Pretty sure it was a 53 plate if memory serves me right.

 

[PaulMc7]

I think eventually the 6 will be split .Clydebank is a logical terminus though

Needs to be split for reliability tbh but other than the cut I've suggested or cutting it in 2 in the City Centre I've not seen any other suggestions of how it could be done

 

[route101]

Yeah the 1s to their credit are probably the most busy service now certainly until at least Old Kilpatrick. Between Bowling and Dumbarton can be a bit quiet but the rest of the route can be extremely busy and the 1C and 1D are never that quiet either. Yeah the E300s as far as the seating goes at least won't last much longer from what I've seen. Looks very worn out on most of them. At peaks it gets to the point drivers just seem to keep letting people on because people charge on and some people need specific 1s to their destination as they don't all go to the same place. I remember when they were still relatively new that one time I got the first 1B from Helensburgh into the city centre and the bus was even full from the end of Cardross. Out of the Dumbarton 1s the 1B is probably most quiet but definitely still like the others in summer.

The 2 could definitely do with more deckers tbh. Even at fairly random off peak times they can be extremely busy and it's another really successful route so definitely worthy of new buses. Would help move the E300s onto more suitable routes too. Could push more of them onto the 6/6A, 8,90 and even maybe the 16 or make the X4 all E300 again

Yeah dont think theres enough deckers to put on the 2 ,would need a new order.

 

[route101]

Something definitely needs to change anyway.

I don't think it's quite as simple as just banning cars from the city centre. Think it'll take a lot more like retiming buses, bus lanes being properly enforced and slightly lower prices to get people going back onto buses. It's certainly on a worrying downtrend in Glasgow anyway.

Here's a pic of a common thing that happens with the 1Cs.

Due at 17:16, 17:34 and 17:50

Here's another screenshot now too:

Buses are buses though , is there anywhere where buses run on time most of the time.

 

[PaulMc7]

Yeah dont think theres enough deckers to put on the 2 ,would need a new order.

Yeah definitely. Would think the 2 is high up on the list of services for new buses anyway. Only other Scotstoun operated services that there's been deckers on that probably doesn't need them is the X4. Seen a couple on that which weren't busy at all even at peaks

 

[PaulMc7]

Buses are buses though , is there anywhere where buses run on time most of the time.

True but out of the cities I've been too nowhere is as bad as Glasgow for late buses plus anything the council do seems to make it worse

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Yeah definitely. Would think the 2 is high up on the list of services for new buses anyway. Only other Scotstoun operated services that there's been deckers on that probably doesn't need them is the X4. Seen a couple on that which weren't busy at all even at peaks

Those ex-U1/U2 buses at Blantyre should be debranded and used elsewhere where they’re really needed rather than them running on the 255 and 267 where the capacity isn’t really needed. It’s almost like they don’t have a place for them. Pretty sure they could be used elsewhere to meet capacity. Even use them on the one if they aren’t going to get new deckers.

Has the 75 been reduced? I’ve noticed a lot of branded buses appearing on other routes recently - the 2, 87, 88, 89, 60/60A etc

 

[PaulMc7]

Those ex-U1/U2 buses at Blantyre should be debranded and used elsewhere where they’re really needed rather than them running on the 255 and 267 where the capacity isn’t really needed. It’s almost like they don’t have a place for them. Pretty sure they could be used elsewhere to meet capacity. Even use them on the one if they aren’t going to get new deckers.

Has the 75 been reduced? I’ve noticed a lot of branded buses appearing on other routes recently - the 2, 87, 88, 89, 60/60A etc

Yeah I've even seen those U1 buses on the 21 occasionally and the 227 too. Could easily move them onto other far busier services. I'm not sure it has but I'm the same. The buses from the 75 definitely are getting moved around each day which is funny because there's been the odd occasion where I've got a 75 and it's not been one of the branded deckers for it. I know the X78 evening journey is usually one of those buses too tbh

 

[lastbus]

Those ex-U1/U2 buses at Blantyre should be debranded and used elsewhere where they’re really needed rather than them running on the 255 and 267 where the capacity isn’t really needed. It’s almost like they don’t have a place for them. Pretty sure they could be used elsewhere to meet capacity. Even use them on the one if they aren’t going to get new deckers.

Has the 75 been reduced? I’ve noticed a lot of branded buses appearing on other routes recently - the 2, 87, 88, 89, 60/60A etc

The U1 still runs plus 1 of them has been debranded albeit still with the red front.

 

[route101]

Those ex-U1/U2 buses at Blantyre should be debranded and used elsewhere where they’re really needed rather than them running on the 255 and 267 where the capacity isn’t really needed. It’s almost like they don’t have a place for them. Pretty sure they could be used elsewhere to meet capacity. Even use them on the one if they aren’t going to get new deckers.

Has the 75 been reduced? I’ve noticed a lot of branded buses appearing on other routes recently - the 2, 87, 88, 89, 60/60A etc

267 could do with deckers at peak times , the streetlites are pretty small.

 

[route101]

Yeah I've even seen those U1 buses on the 21 occasionally and the 227 too. Could easily move them onto other far busier services. I'm not sure it has but I'm the same. The buses from the 75 definitely are getting moved around each day which is funny because there's been the odd occasion where I've got a 75 and it's not been one of the branded deckers for it. I know the X78 evening journey is usually one of those buses too tbh

Few 75s a peak have been gemini , always been the case. I thought the unbranded e400mmcs where to be used on 38 and 75.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Few 75s a peak have been gemini , always been the case. I thought the unbranded e400mmcs where to be used on 38 and 75.

I’m not sure if that is the intention. The unbranded E400MMCs have started turning up on the 41, 60/60A, 61 services. Not to mention the 57 and the 10. I think they were just to be used on services out of Caledonia which can be just about anything.