ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[jingsmonty]

Can we keep on topic please? LNER doors and 385s are not the topic here.

Fair enough - it's funny how we've all gone off at a tangent from a discussion about Scotrail HSTs using short platforms on the Aberdeen to Inverness line

 

[najaB]

It's not something I've any experience with, but basically, I think it allows doors to be opened from the active panel to all doors to the rear, or the active panel to all doors to the front.

That's the form of SDO that the classic sets could use. Full SDO allows (in theory at least) any subset of the doors to be open. So on a train at a short platform you could open all but the front and rearmost doors.

These systems generally use either GPS or track level beacons to automatically chose the correct doors, which has the advantage of eliminating wrong-side releases.

I do think that Scotrail have missed a trick by not including it in the refurb specification.

 

[JLUK144]

SDO = Selective Door Opening. Basically, allows some carriage doors to be opened, but not all (for short platforms). It's not something I've any experience with, but basically, I think it allows doors to be opened from the active panel to all doors to the rear, or the active panel to all doors to the front.

Scotrail use 'One Door Operation' for short platforms instead - basically, the Conductor will open their 'Local Door' and that's it. There's definetly less scope for incidents, although it's only really suitable for stations with small traffic levels (Dalwhinnie springs to mind). It's used at Beauly, Conon Bridge, Attadale & Duncraig (request only for both). Possibly some on the West Highland Line too, I think?

Cheers for that.

 

[superkev]

2 were done last year and just 3 so far this year (in 6 months) so I'd be surprised if we get into double figures....

Perhaps as Roger Ford said in the latest Modern Railways perhaps new and rebuilt trains are like shaking Ketchup bottles. Only a few drops at first then a huge flood.
K

 

[hexagon789]

I do think that Scotrail have missed a trick by not including it in the refurb specification.

I certainly think should they have. While it's not the only practical thing preventing longer sets running, it's certainly a main one.

 

[jingsmonty]

I certainly think they have. While it's not the only practical thing preventing longer sets running, it's certainly a main one.

No. The 170s also have SDO but Scotrail don't permit its use

 

[hexagon789]

No. The 170s also have SDO but Scotrail don't permit its use

Sorry a typo on my part - the first sentence should've read as "I certainly think they should have", in relation to equipping the refurbished HSTs with such a system.

 

[InOban]

Changing the subject, ScotRail 'liked' a tweet yesterday from someone who sits in his seat with a stopwatch. Carrbridge to Slochd loop in just under 6 minutes in an HST, almost 11 in a 170.

 

[chuff chuff]

Changing the subject, ScotRail 'liked' a tweet yesterday from someone who sits in his seat with a stopwatch. Carrbridge to Slochd loop in just under 6 minutes in an HST, almost 11 in a 170.

Yes these sets are 'entertaining ' kinda dreading the fifth coach.

 

[najaB]

Yes these sets are 'entertaining ' kinda dreading the fifth coach.

I don't think it will slow things down to much. As was discussed up-thread, nine carriage HST is faster to 100mph than a 170.

 

[hexagon789]

Changing the subject, ScotRail 'liked' a tweet yesterday from someone who sits in his seat with a stopwatch. Carrbridge to Slochd loop in just under 6 minutes in an HST, almost 11 in a 170.

Which I think highlights the ability the HSTs have to cut journey times, even with the current 100mph blanket.

Yes these sets are 'entertaining ' kinda dreading the fifth coach.

I doubt it will have a significant effect tbh. I think 100mph will still be attainable in less than 3 minutes I reckon.

I don't think it will slow things down to much. As was discussed up-thread, nine carriage HST is faster to 100mph than a 170.

Indeed they are, potentially 15 seconds quicker on the data I have.

 

[Highland37]

Perhaps as Roger Ford said in the latest Modern Railways perhaps new and rebuilt trains are like shaking Ketchup bottles. Only a few drops at first then a huge flood.
K

Vague metaphors might sound good but are not backed up by the evidence. The evidence and data show that there has been no quickening of pace or sudden up scaling of the refurb programme.

 

[Meerkat]

Are Wabtec going to throw in some extra coaches as compo for the late delivery?

 

[John R]

They are only doing the refurb. That offer would only work if ScotRail wanted to pay the ongoing leasing costs of extra stock.

 

[jingsmonty]

Sorry a typo on my part - the first sentence should've read as "I certainly think they should have", in relation to equipping the refurbished HSTs with such a system.

Possibly, but One Door Operation has less potential for mishaps & would be sufficient for the short platforms that exist. I wouldn't think there's many left that couldn't take a 5+2/6+2 set now

 

[jingsmonty]

Which I think highlights the ability the HSTs have to cut journey times, even with the current 100mph blanket.



I doubt it will have a significant effect tbh. I think 100mph will still be attainable in less than 3 minutes I reckon.



Indeed they are, potentially 15 seconds quicker on the data I have.

Having driven HSTs on the HML, I'd fully concur with this - the 100mph is easily attainable on the stretch from Kincraig down towards Kingussie (in both directions). About 97mph (Southbound) & just under 90mph (Northbound) is about the best I've managed in a 170 - that's a good 'un too!

 

[hexagon789]

Possibly, but One Door Operation has less potential for mishaps & would be sufficient for the short platforms that exist. I wouldn't think there's many left that couldn't take a 5+2/6+2 set now

In other words there are few benefits from having the SDO, because it wouldn't be needed for that many stations?

 

[hexagon789]

Having driven HSTs on the HML, I'd fully concur with this - the 100mph is easily attainable on the stretch from Kincraig down towards Kingussie (in both directions). About 97mph (Southbound) & just under 90mph (Northbound) is about the best I've managed in a 170 - that's a good 'un too!

It's long be said that 170s are 'gutless' and the figures certainly suggest that is the case.

There have been a number of posts relating to 170s' sluggishness and in teens of acceleration what are they really suited to? Definitely on long-distance there is no contest, an HST wins hands-down.

 

[Indigo Soup]

Changing the subject, ScotRail 'liked' a tweet yesterday from someone who sits in his seat with a stopwatch. Carrbridge to Slochd loop in just under 6 minutes in an HST, almost 11 in a 170.

I believe that was the chap behind Realtimetrains, collecting data to improve the website.

 

[Railperf]

I believe that was the chap behind Realtimetrains, collecting data to improve the website.

I think they are using GPS too. They have been appealing for GPS data from regular users of rail services that record their journeys.

 

[59CosG95]

The next powercar move to Brush Loughborough only made it as far as Waverley before giving up. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R01894/2019/07/01/advanced
No idea which 43s were involved.

 

[najaB]

The next powercar move to Brush Loughborough only made it as far as Waverley before giving up.

46 minutes lost between Haymarket Depot and Haymarket - that's got to be a record!

 

[samuelmorris]

46 minutes lost between Haymarket Depot and Haymarket - that's got to be a record!

and also travelling backwards. I think what you're seeing there is the return trip back to the depot. It was only 2 mins late at Edinburgh, then departed 23 mins late, presumably in the other direction.

 

[Highlandspring]

The next powercar move to Brush Loughborough only made it as far as Waverley before giving up. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R01894/2019/07/01/advanced
No idea which 43s were involved.

43136/43179 wheelset issue...

 

[59CosG95]

43136/43179 wheelset issue...

To quote Mitchell & Webb's Snooker Commentator sketch, "Oh and that's a bad miss"!

Wheelflats, perhaps?

 

[Highlandspring]

Wheelflats, perhaps?

No .

 

[John Bishop]

3 HST sets sat in sidings at Inverness all day. 1527 Huntly onto a 170 vice HST.

 

[hexagon789]

No .

Are you able to say what the issue was?

 

[InvHst]

3 HST sets sat in sidings at Inverness all day. 1527 Huntly onto a 170 vice HST.

Aye cause the 0707 ran as a 170 from queen Street. Invernes has too many HSTS currently only needs 1 overnight to form the 845 to queen Street. Obviously the refurb is their for staff training but there was 4 classic sets in inverness when I arrived home yesterday that's crazy 1 has now gone south on 1b54 1554 inv to Edinburgh and another looks like it was heading south out of tmd at 1630 no idea what was happening with that

 

[InOban]

RTT is showing what I assume is the next delivery on Wednesday morning (dep 03.13)