ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[_toommm_]

Pair of Inter7city power cars just passed Newcastle going south. 43176 was one of them.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R01102/2019/06/06/advanced

 

[jingsmonty]

So if the refurb sets are all being used for training when not in service we must be starting to come to the end of the training surely? Earlier posts on the thread suggested the training was stopped to ensure the new timetable ran smoothly and further disruption was expected in the back end. Anyone know if training is coming to an end?

I think there's a bit of confusion here - from a Driver's point of view, there's a big difference between 'training on HST traction' from scratch (3 Weeks of training, which entails up to 4 drivers having to have their shifts covered for 3 Weeks & either 1 or 2 Driver Instructors being 'off jobs' for 2 weeks, to deliver the practical handling training (basically, learning how to drive an HST).

The 'conversion to a refurbished set' training, by contrast, is for Drivers who ARE qualified in HSTs already (the training trains used Classic sets) to 'convert' to the refurbished sets. It's an (approximately) 2 hour course, I understand. This is the position I'm in just now - I can drive Classic sets, but not Inter7City sets. It covers the differences between the Classic & the Inter7City sets, such as the traction interlock system (I can't comment much on the content, as I haven't actually done the course myself yet).

When it's mentioned that set HA22 is being used in Inverness for 'Staff Training', it's the Conversion training we're talking about NOT the HST traction training - this HAS been suspended, for now. The Conversion training is vital, as it would be ridiculous that, once more refurbished sets appear on the HML, if Inverness crews couldn't work them! The Conversion training could be completed fairly quickly, with multiple Drivers being trained daily.

Incidentally, I saw HA22 heading past my house Yesterday afternoon- think it was just after 15.00.

 

[jingsmonty]

But wasn't Inverness the last depot to get the training for the refurbished set's?

Yes, that's why HA22 is in Inverness! The other 4 should be in service. Once Inverness crews have been converted to the Inter7City sets, they should head straight into service, pending any exam/acceptance work. As I said above, this conversion training is vital, otherwise we could have the ludicrous situation of more & more refurbished sets entering service & Inverness crews not being able to work them! Once all the staff have been 'converted', the sets should be much easier to diagram - once more refurbished sets appear, I'd think that they will just be replacing Classic sets on the same diagrams, as opposed to being separately diagrammed.

 

[Highlandspring]

Pair of Inter7city power cars just passed Newcastle going south. 43176 was one of them.

The other is 43127. They are going to pick up the next refurbished set, HA21.

 

[Wst71Pa2]

I think there's a bit of confusion here - from a Driver's point of view, there's a big difference between 'training on HST traction' from scratch (3 Weeks of training, which entails up to 4 drivers having to have their shifts covered for 3 Weeks & either 1 or 2 Driver Instructors being 'off jobs' for 2 weeks, to deliver the practical handling training (basically, learning how to drive an HST).

The 'conversion to a refurbished set' training, by contrast, is for Drivers who ARE qualified in HSTs already (the training trains used Classic sets) to 'convert' to the refurbished sets. It's an (approximately) 2 hour course, I understand. This is the position I'm in just now - I can drive Classic sets, but not Inter7City sets. It covers the differences between the Classic & the Inter7City sets, such as the traction interlock system (I can't comment much on the content, as I haven't actually done the course myself yet).

When it's mentioned that set HA22 is being used in Inverness for 'Staff Training', it's the Conversion training we're talking about NOT the HST traction training - this HAS been suspended, for now. The Conversion training is vital, as it would be ridiculous that, once more refurbished sets appear on the HML, if Inverness crews couldn't work them! The Conversion training could be completed fairly quickly, with multiple Drivers being trained daily.

Incidentally, I saw HA22 heading past my house Yesterday afternoon- think it was just after 15.00.

I was going to try to explain what you have just said. But I think you've done it better than I would have.
Still plenty mainline drivers to do the 3 wk basic conversion in addition to the trainees coming thru

 

[jingsmonty]

I was going to try to explain what you have just said. But I think you've done it better than I would have.
Still plenty mainline drivers to do the 3 wk basic conversion in addition to the trainees coming thru

Yes, a lot of traction training still to be done - I think (with a few exceptions) that most of the 'Non HST' Drivers are on a separate link & that newly qualified trainees will either join this link or go onto a 'starter' link.

Hopefully this will be as short-term temporary situation, I can see a couple of Classic sets being retained for Driver training next year, even if we do have all 27 Refurbs in place by then (which definetly isn't a given). There's a huge number of trainee drivers just now, who will need HST traction training at sone point. Also, the priority (once the full traction training has started up again) must be to train qualified drivers who've missed out , through no fault of theirs. It must be frustrating - it would certainly annoy me!

 

[Goldromans]

The other is 43127. They are going to pick up the next refurbished set, HA21.

Any word on when this set will be released?

 

[Esker-pades]

Any word on when this set will be released?

Judging by previous things, I'll bet the word "imminently" is used.

 

[7522]

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R01102/2019/06/06/advanced

The other is 43127. They are going to pick up the next refurbished set, HA21.

Thanks for the info.

 

[jingsmonty]

Thanks for the info.

I'll second that as well - appreciate the info. Although the coach refurbishment has been 'problematic' (being diplomatic here), the pace of delivery does seem to be improving (as it badly needs to).

Scotrail staff visiting Doncaster put some photos on Yammer a while ago, which showed sets 4 & 5 (both now delivered). It was also mentioned that sets 6 & 7 were also in progress, along with sets 8 & 9 onsite as well. It's progress.

 

[DannyMich2018]

I'll second that as well - appreciate the info. Although the coach refurbishment has been 'problematic' (being diplomatic here), the pace of delivery does seem to be improving (as it badly needs to).

Scotrail staff visiting Doncaster put some photos on Yammer a while ago, which showed sets 4 & 5 (both now delivered). It was also mentioned that sets 6 & 7 were also in progress, along with sets 8 & 9 onsite as well. It's progress.

Yes let's hope for everyone's sake progress is been made and if set 6 is coming up in the next few days it's certainly better than a few month's ago progress and if Wabtec can keep rate this up we should easily be into double figures by the end of the year.

 

[hexagon789]

I'll second that as well - appreciate the info. Although the coach refurbishment has been 'problematic' (being diplomatic here), the pace of delivery does seem to be improving (as it badly needs to).

Scotrail staff visiting Doncaster put some photos on Yammer a while ago, which showed sets 4 & 5 (both now delivered). It was also mentioned that sets 6 & 7 were also in progress, along with sets 8 & 9 onsite as well. It's progress.

Indeed - it's progress. You hope they can sustain this somewhat quicker output. I still doubt that they'll manage all 26 sets by December but with every set delivered I suppose at the very least it's closer to being able to run a full complement of HST-diagrammed services as such even if it's likely to still be with a mix of Classic and Refurbished sets.

 

[InOban]

I suspect quite a lot of the work can only be completed and signed off with the power cars attached. I'm sure I recall sightings of previous sets with power cars attached at least two weeks before delivery.

 

[hexagon789]

I suspect quite a lot of the work can only be completed and signed off with the power cars attached. I'm sure I recall sightings of previous sets with power cars attached at least two weeks before delivery.

I would guess they need the power cars to test the interlock for a start.

 

[jingsmonty]

I would guess they need the power cars to test the interlock for a start.

Yes, I'd think so too. Plenty of refurbished power cars on the go anyway, most of the Classic sets have at least 1 refurbished power car (with Traction Interlock isolated) anyway. Not sure how many power cars are left to do now?

 

[Highlandspring]

Not sure how many power cars are left to do now?

My super spreadsheet (updated yesterday) shows 9 powercars currently in traffic still to be refurbished and a further 7 at Brush.

 

[43096]

My super spreadsheet (updated yesterday) shows 9 powercars currently in traffic still to be refurbished and a further 7 at Brush.

It’s 8 at Brush and 8 still to go in. Like the Ark, the animals go in two-by-two.

 

[Highlandspring]

It’s 8 at Brush and 8 still to go in. Like the Ark, the animals go in two-by-two.

Of course! Having had a wee look into it I had 43151 down as being in Scotland vice Brush.

 

[jingsmonty]

My super spreadsheet (updated yesterday) shows 9 powercars currently in traffic still to be refurbished and a further 7 at Brush.

Out of 54 power cars, that's over half of them completed. Bit further on than the coaches!

 

[Goldromans]

I suspect quite a lot of the work can only be completed and signed off with the power cars attached. I'm sure I recall sightings of previous sets with power cars attached at least two weeks before delivery.

Even if the next set is a couple of weeks away, that’s still a huge improvement in the rate of delivery.

How many sets (in whatever stage of refurbishment) are currently at Wabtec?

 

[Northhighland]

I'll second that as well - appreciate the info. Although the coach refurbishment has been 'problematic' (being diplomatic here), the pace of delivery does seem to be improving (as it badly needs to).

Scotrail staff visiting Doncaster put some photos on Yammer a while ago, which showed sets 4 & 5 (both now delivered). It was also mentioned that sets 6 & 7 were also in progress, along with sets 8 & 9 onsite as well. It's progress.

It is a welcome improvement. Anyone know if Kilmarnock have started any sets yet?

 

[jingsmonty]

It is a welcome improvement. Anyone know if Kilmarnock have started any sets yet?

Others on this thread have commented that coaches have been heading to Kilmarnock, but not sure if this is for refurbishment or for repairs to unrefurbished coaches

 

[jingsmonty]

Even if the next set is a couple of weeks away, that’s still a huge improvement in the rate of delivery.

How many sets (in whatever stage of refurbishment) are currently at Wabtec?

Last I heard was that set nos up to 9 were in Doncaster

 

[Highlandspring]

Others on this thread have commented that coaches have been heading to Kilmarnock, but not sure if this is for refurbishment or for repairs to unrefurbished coaches

Some unrefurbished coaches have been to Brodies for general repair work - HA31 was outshopped and returned to Haymarket on Wednesday morning. Seperately trailers 42143 and 42145 arrived at Wabtec Kilmarnock as part of the refurbishment program on the 1st of April. My understanding is that the full refurbishment won’t be carried out there and at some point the coaches will be taken by road to Doncaster to be finished.

 

[Class83]

What is the process going to be for the 5 car sets? Will the priority be to complete all sets as 4 car then do the extra carriages as drop ins, or will they eventually start delivering some 5 car sets complete?

 

[Goldromans]

What is the process going to be for the 5 car sets? Will the priority be to complete all sets as 4 car then do the extra carriages as drop ins, or will they eventually start delivering some 5 car sets complete?

I image they'd be delivered as 5-car.

 

[Wst71Pa2]

I image they'd be delivered as 5-car.

I imagine we'll never see a 5 car

 

[43096]

I imagine we'll never see a 5 car

I imagine you're wrong.

 

[Northhighland]

Be disappointing if Kilmarnock influence doesn’t start to speed things up a bit. The product is very good a refurbed HST is an excellent passenger experience. I see the life of these trains extend beyond 10 years. It will be difficult to find a decent replacement.

 

[hexagon789]

Yes, I'd think so too. Plenty of refurbished power cars on the go anyway, most of the Classic sets have at least 1 refurbished power car (with Traction Interlock isolated) anyway.

I could be wrong, but weren't they trying to have one Inter7City power car on each Classic set deliberately? So as to demonstrate the new brand as it were.