ATW/Keolis Amey Wales stock shortages

[krus_aragon]

Also from December,loco hauled 3 trains per day from Cardiff- holyhead.. will free up 175s .. I wouldn't be surprised if they are moved to the Chester-liverpool route, to free up the 150s for the valleys.. otherwise.. more than likely, they too will be short stocked.. since the pacers will be going.

Do bear in mind: as the three MkIV rakes come in for the 3tpd for Cardiff-Holyhead, both of the MkIII rakes' leases will be ending. So some of the released 175s will have to cover the peak North Wales - Manchester diagram that the second MkIII rake currently operates.

 

[Bovverboy]

neilboo said: ↑
I suppose sticking two 175s together today (6th) won't help with availability.175008 and 175010.
1508 Llandudno to Man Picc (below seen at Man Ox only 2 minutes late) and then the 1752 Man Picc to Holyhead.
I've never seen these run in multiple in all my YEAR of getting back into trains.
View attachment 62568

It's booked to be a 4 car - but for the last few months it was running as a 3 car due to unit shortages. It's only in the last few weeks it's been restored to 4 cars.

I can remember it being reduced to a single 175/1, but how was the Llandudno Junction to Llandudno (and subsequent journeys) covered? In normal circumstances the trailing 175/0 is scheduled to drop off at LLJ.
There's a similar obvious question about the 0852 Picc-Holyhead, which is scheduled to drop the trailing unit at Chester, which then follows as a stopping service to Llandudno. I'm sure the 0852 was running as a 2-car unit for a time. Of course, it couldn't be reduced to a 3-car 175/1, since the leading unit needs to be a 158, it finishes up on the Cambrian later in the day.

 

[craigybagel]

I can remember it being reduced to a single 175/1, but how was the Llandudno Junction to Llandudno (and subsequent journeys) covered? In normal circumstances the trailing 175/0 is scheduled to drop off at LLJ.
There's a similar obvious question about the 0852 Picc-Holyhead, which is scheduled to drop the trailing unit at Chester, which then follows as a stopping service to Llandudno. I'm sure the 0852 was running as a 2-car unit for a time. Of course, it couldn't be reduced to a 3-car 175/1, since the leading unit needs to be a 158, it finishes up on the Cambrian later in the day.

The 1823 Crewe - Chester 150 went ECS from Chester to Llandudno junction to fill out the rest of that diagram. The 1855 Chester - Crewe was postponed to 1910 and used the arriving 175 off the evening Swansea - Chester.

 

[S-Bahn]

Could TFW take delivery of more Mk4 coaches and have more loco hauled services between South Wales and North Wales/Manchester? Then the 175's could carry out other duties (and freeing up 150's for the valley lines in the interim), until the next generation of stock is available?

 

[PHILIPE]

Could TFW take delivery of more Mk4 coaches and have more loco hauled services between South Wales and North Wales/Manchester? Then the 175's could carry out other duties (and freeing up 150's for the valley lines in the interim), until the next generation of stock is available?

The answer to everything, LHCS. It's not just as easy as that after considering availability of DVTs or run round facilities. Locos, Stock, extensive traincrew training, increased track access charges.

 

[PHILIPE]

Not directly linked to topic but 175010 is working 2M10 1435 Swansea to Crewe via HOWL today due to the booked 153 (353) not available to go north (presume exam ?) and swapped with 1510 Swansea to Chester swapping 353 out at Cardiff in order to go to Canton.

 

[Cardiff123]

The answer to everything, LHCS. It's not just as easy as that after considering availability of DVTs or run round facilities. Locos, Stock, extensive traincrew training, increased track access charges.

What other options are there?
The only DMU options are TPE 185s or GA 156s, neither of which are available until the end of the year at the earliest. If those are ruled out, there are no options left to cover for units that need extensive refurbishment and PRM mods.

 

[craigybagel]

There is another option being investigated according to the rumours internally. But I don't think I can share it until it's confirmed publicly.

 

[Philip]

Is 175107 still running as a 2-car train?

 

[6Gtraincrew]

Is 175107 still running as a 2-car train?

Yes, it is and it will be for several more weeks yet. Sometime in June until it's back as a three car.

 

[krus_aragon]

There is another option being investigated according to the rumours internally. But I don't think I can share it until it's confirmed publicly.

It'd be interesting to know if the internal rumours match any of the external ones. But it'd be even more useful to have something publicly announced!

 

[PHILIPE]

It'd be interesting to know if the internal rumours match any of the external ones. But it'd be even more useful to have something publicly announced!

If negotiations and investigations are still taking place I wouldn't expect any official announcement to be made until things had been finalised.

 

[craigybagel]

It'd be interesting to know if the internal rumours match any of the external ones. But it'd be even more useful to have something publicly announced!

If the rumours were the same internally and externally I'd feel more comfortable discussing them online (as I did with the HST rumour last month) but I've not heard this particular one outside of work so far.

If negotiations and investigations are still taking place I wouldn't expect any official announcement to me made until things had been finalised.

Very true. And presumably there's a hope that they can still stick to the original plan drawn up in the franchise bid that doesn't require any extra stock.

 

[Bovverboy]

Is 175107 still running as a 2-car train?

Yes, it is and it will be for several more weeks yet. Sometime in June until it's back as a three car.

Is it running on 175/0 or 175/1 diagrams?

 

[craigybagel]

Is it running on 175/0 or 175/1 diagrams?

It's on a 175/1 diagram today anyway. But what can you do? There's a 150 on a 175 diagram today as well, and at least one other 2 car 175 vice 3 car.

 

[Rhydgaled]

What other options are there?
The only DMU options are TPE 185s or GA 156s, neither of which are available until the end of the year at the earliest. If those are ruled out, there are no options left to cover for units that need extensive refurbishment and PRM mods.

Weren't there 5 ScotRail 156s (and possibly 5 ScotRail 170s that were expected to go to Southern but then were no longer wanted) due off lease in Dec 2018 that are unaccounted for? Can't think of any other quick options - anything else will require training drivers on something that's not a quick convertion from existing stock and wouldn't be staying long-term. Even mark 4s are unlikely to be released in time given that the DVTs will need mods to work with 67s - unless they are top & tailed with locos.

 

[Mordac]

Weren't there 5 ScotRail 156s (and possibly 5 ScotRail 170s that were expected to go to Southern but then were no longer wanted) due off lease in Dec 2018 that are unaccounted for? Can't think of any other quick options - anything else will require training drivers on something that's not a quick convertion from existing stock and wouldn't be staying long-term. Even mark 4s are unlikely to be released in time given that the DVTs will need mods to work with 67s - unless they are top & tailed with locos.

I think Scotrail has now secured the lease on all of those.

 

[Cardiff123]

Very true. And presumably there's a hope that they can still stick to the original plan drawn up in the franchise bid that doesn't require any extra stock.

The original rolling stock plan in the franchise bid assumed all 5 of the 769s being in service from the start and all 9 being in service by now.............

 

[craigybagel]

The original rolling stock plan in the franchise bid assumed all 5 of the 769s being in service from the start and all 9 being in service by now.............

Indeed. Maybe I should replace "stick to the plan" with "stick as close to the plan as possible without having to spend a fortune hiring in alternative stock".

 

[Chris217]

I take it any mk4s will have
the mk4 DVT's as well?

 

[43096]

I take it any mk4s will have
the mk4 DVT's as well?

Yes, they will.

 

[Jacob Didcote]

Bit off topic and a bit of a stupid question but what will happen to the 'Pacers' when they are replaced? Booths? Auction?

 

[tomwills98]

I think one's being adopted the NRM but the rest will either be going for scrap or preservation

 

[LOL The Irony]

I think one's being adopted the NRM but the rest will either be going for scrap or preservation

142 001 is the one being preserved, none from the TFW fleet.

 

[Chris217]

Would be nice if a class 143 Pacer was saved as well.

 

[hexagon789]

Would be nice if a class 143 Pacer was saved as well.

I guess for posterity, but mounting it would be sufficient.

I take it any mk4s will have
the mk4 DVT's as well?

As said they will be using DVTs. Presently the 67s can't work in push-pull mode with Mk4 DVTs and so those are getting the same mods the Mk3s received in order to work with the AAR push-pull system rather than the TDM system Mk3s and Mk4s are ordinarily equipped to utilise.

Don't think there'd be enough 67s to top and tail either.

 

[Honest Ross]

TFW now telling twitter customers that from 19th only additional stock will be 3 x 153s with possible further additions in June.

 

[PHILIPE]

Bit off topic and a bit of a stupid question but what will happen to the 'Pacers' when they are replaced? Booths? Auction?

There is a brief mention of 142001 here in Post #1

www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-142-diagrams-post-may-timetable-change.182760/#post-4006930

 

[hexagon789]

TFW now telling twitter customers that from 19th only additional stock will be 3 x 153s with possible further additions in June.

No mention of the 37s?

 

[PHILIPE]

No mention of the 37s?

Yes, in June. Training still to be completed