Brown out and about

[Aictos]

Our PM was out and about today travelling on the 1006 Kings Cross to Cambridge which was booked as a 321 but due to the First Class not of suitable quality, a 365 was used instead.
No photos available but no doubt some photo will be in the papers.

 

[Oswyntail]

.... was booked as a 321 but due to the First Class not of suitable quality, a 365 was used instead......

Too good for him, was it?

 

[devon_metro]

booked as a 321 but due to the First Class not of suitable quality,

:roll:

Staying clear of the 'plebs' then. Shame they are the people who should be voting for him!

 

[Aictos]

Well he got off at Stevenage heading to Harlow, why he didn't go out of Liverpool Street directly is beyond me.

 

[37401]

Well he got off at Stevenage heading to Harlow, why he didn't go out of Liverpool Street directly is beyond me.

maybe (like some on here) he has a disliking for NXEA, or maybe he cant resist the urge to flail and bellow behind a skoda

 

[Geezertronic]

Our PM was out and about today ...

He might be your PM but I never voted for him so he's not mine

 

[Aictos]

maybe (like some on here) he has a disliking for NXEA, or maybe he cant resist the urge to flail and bellow behind a skoda

That made no sense at all, 90s are Skodas which run in passenger service on the GEML and 365s which he actually travelled on, looks and acts nothing at all like a 90.

He might be your PM but I never voted for him so he's not mine

I meant "Our" PM as in general terms, I never voted for him to be PM and never will.

 

[37401]

That made no sense at all, 90s are Skodas which run in passenger service on the GEML and 365s which he actually travelled on, looks and acts nothing at all like a 90.

why he didn't go out of Liverpool Street directly is beyond me.

Hope it makes sence now, he didnt want to go to liverpool st because he hates even the sight of NXEA, and he didnt want a skoda because he would be too tempted to flail and bellow behind it.

lol the moments gone

 

[Drsatan]

What's wrong with standard class for him? After all, first class can be prohibitively expensive for the people who would naturally vote for him (even though they won't come May this year). In fact, first class, as far as I'm aware, can be prohibitively expensive for everyone.

Also, he's supposed to be setting a good example following the expenses scandal.

 

[Pumbaa]

I meant "Our" PM as in general terms, I never voted for him to be PM and never will.

No-one did As a country though, we voted in Labour.

 

[Failed Unit]

No-one did As a country though, we voted in Labour.

The good old Lies, Damn Lies and Statisics the majority of the country voted for someone else or didn't bother at all I don't think any government in recent history has been voted in by more than 50% of the voting population. (recent meaning the last 100 years)

 

[Old Timer]

Labour got in only with 25% of the overall vote because too many "can't be bothered" types were about. Hopefully they will be the ones now suffering most by what they have brought upon us all.

 

[Metroland]

Don't worry, they'll be 'more of the same' whether its the Lib-dems, Conservatives or Labour you vote for next. Anyone that thinks any different is kidding themselves. And they'll all be making massive cuts too.

 

[Old Timer]

That is an undisputable fact but gross inept mismanagement and Political chicanery have made this worse

 

[asylumxl]

That is an undisputable fact but gross inept mismanagement and Political chicanery have made this worse

And yet Britain has not been affected catastrophically by the "recession". I think people should count their blessings.

Oh, and for what it's worth, the blessed Thatcher is the source of many of these problems. And irrelevant of the party this is how things will remain.

 

[Old Timer]

And yet Britain has not been affected catastrophically by the "recession". I think people should count their blessings.

Oh, and for what it's worth, the blessed Thatcher is the source of many of these problems. And irrelevant of the party this is how things will remain.

Really, and both I and the rest of the financial world think it was unrestrained spending and financial mismanagement. THe EU and The World Bank agree on that as well.

So how come Labour inherited a rising economy in 1997, and why is the gap between poor and rich widened under Labour to the extent that lower earners can pay a marginal tax rate of 98% ?

Were you even born when Mrs Thatcher became PM ?

Next time a little research would do no harm, eh ?

 

[A0]

And yet Britain has not been affected catastrophically by the "recession". I think people should count their blessings.

Oh, and for what it's worth, the blessed Thatcher is the source of many of these problems. And irrelevant of the party this is how things will remain.

Oh come off it. Margaret Thatcher hasn't been PM for almost 20 years.

Who's been in power since 1997 ? Who was Chancellor of the Exchequer for most of that time and therefore in charge of the British economy?

As for your assertion that Britain hasn't been "affected catastrophically by the "recession"." You really are showing a complete and utter ignorance for basic economics.

Quite apart from the impact on people who have lost their jobs and homes, you might like to reflect on the parlous state of Britain's public finances and the fact that not only my generation (mid 30s) but also that of my children and in all probability their children will be paying the price of Brown's complete economic shambles for many years to come.

 

[Pumbaa]

Really, and both I and the rest of the financial world think it was unrestrained spending and financial mismanagement. THe EU and The World Bank agree on that as well.

Actually he has a point.

Yes to both of your points OT, but the dice was cast in an odd way with the rampant growth of the Chinese economy. The US, WTO, WB and EU often like to ignore points such as this and pretend they don't exist. Britain was only to eager to offer out Govt Gilts on a ready to buy back in basis, but we ran out. The extra money flowing in was nice at the time, so a new way of doing things was developed that led to the eventual 'creation' of money when banks, insurers, PEFs and every other sully could easily lose track of exactly what it was they were selling on.

That idea was dreamt up, put in place and acted upon by, err, Thatcher's government.

 

[Metroland]

Quite correct. Indeed, the Conservatives were on about deregulating financial services even more, before the whole lot went pop. While Brown has wasted a lot of money (although the populace as managed to get itself in a huge amount of consumer debt too) and failed to close the divide between rich and poor, essentially this is because New Labour carried on pretty much all the Tory party policies than went before. Didn't Margaret Thatcher boast her greatest success was Tony Blair?

So what's going to change under a new Government?

Well expect immigration to carry on pretty much as before, because we're members of this trading block we now need after the collapse of the empire, aka the EU. Especially now were running out of coal, oil, gas and just about every other natural resource and have international problems to tackle in an international world.

Expect property prices still to rise, and young people to actually face a declining standard of living compared to their parents and much more debt - principally because they almost have to have a Degree and house purchase is only going to get more expensive as its seen as a get rich quick way of investing.

Expect rural areas to decline more, and be full of an ever ageing population.

Expect more industry, and even white collar jobs to go abroad (such as in IT and even financial services), because frankly the work can be done cheaper elsewhere, and with container/airline/internet networks its a no brainer.

Expect India, China, Russia and Brazil to become more powerful, and US influence to diminish.

Expect the same benefit culture, because frankly unless you are on more than £20k a year you are better off on benefits, especially with the housing situation (see above).

Expect the same yobbishness and idiots, because without a culture change from the grass roots, that ain't gonna change.

Expect big cuts to all services, and to implement those expect more employment legislation.

None of those things will change whoever gets in, because none of the parties have any idea or the answers to any of it in reality.

 

[asylumxl]

Were you even born when Mrs Thatcher became PM ?

Next time a little research would do no harm, eh ?

Well it seems people agree with me, so I must not be that ignorant after all.

Regarding Thatcher, no I wasn't. But I think anyone who denies the negative affects of her policies is either a) a fool or b) a hardcore Tory.

Afterall, it was the Conservative government which set up the franchise system. The same system many of that generation are now describing as unfair and unworkable.

Do you automatically assume anyone younger than you is a fool and has idea what they are talking about? Someone of your generation you would expect to be somewhat less condescending.

People lost jobs and their homes, the financial world is in turmoil, but proportionally, compared to the likes of the USA, Britain got off lightly.

 

[royaloak]

When Liebore took over control of this country we were one of the richest in the world, now after they have finished screwing us over we are struggling to hold onto our AAA rating, they basically asset stripped this country and will now run away with OUR money in their personal bank accounts.

They continue to provide aid to many countries that in some ways (not all) are better off than we are, and don't look as if they have got any thoughts of stopping.

Whoever gets in has got to make some VERY unpopular decisions and the workers will be paying for this Liebore government for years to come.

Okay when the Tories got voted out they had lost their direction a bit, but Liebore carried on the worst bits (the sell offs) and paid for increased amounts of benefits for the lazy/ chavvy/ asylum seekers with our assets, the country is skint and that is entirely because of the actions of this lot in power.
Why do you think all the illegals want to get into this country, if our benefit systems were in line with europe do you think they would be so eager? We are a soft touch and all they have to do is get into the country and they are made, no need to work and enough money to be very well off and a free house to boot. We have enough lazy gits of our own without importing them, genuine cases and workers are welcome but the scroungers can sod off, in my opinion.

 

[Old Timer]

That idea was dreamt up, put in place and acted upon by, err, Thatcher's government.

Totally wrong Brown has created a masssive finacial problem, made worse by his removal of ALL control over banking and his freeing up of the Building Societies such as northern Rock to become banks,and gamble with people's money. Like all Labour Chancellors, Brown has spent money which he borrowed until we cannot borrow anymore and now its payback time.

Well it seems people agree with me, so I must not be that ignorant after all.

Regarding Thatcher, no I wasn't. But I think anyone who denies the negative affects of her policies is either a) a fool or b) a hardcore Tory.

Afterall, it was the Conservative government which set up the franchise system. The same system many of that generation are now describing as unfair and unworkable.

Do you automatically assume anyone younger than you is a fool and has idea what they are talking about? Someone of your generation you would expect to be somewhat less condescending.

People lost jobs and their homes, the financial world is in turmoil, but proportionally, compared to the likes of the USA, Britain got off lightly.

I doubt that you can assume one person forms a cheering mass of support.

12 years after Labour took power you have the amazing concept that it is STILL the Conservatives fault that franchising operates as it does. This is despite overwhelming evidence (easily found if you bother to look) that Labour have had plenty of opportunities to alter things and several opportunities to take the Railways back into Public ownership. This incidentally was a Labour Manifesto committment, confirmed even as late as the night before the General Election. As with all Labour promises and committments it was forgotten the following day once in power.

You talk of the recession as if it has gone away. Far from it, it is simply deepening, incidentally the UK is only one of TWO EU states where things are getting worse. A quick check will confirm this.

Finally you speak of being "condescending". As with your previous post much of what you say is factually incorrect and ill-thought I wonder if you are taken in by Leftist propoganda and Labour hype.

I assume nothing about people being fools it is for them to demonstrate that.

As for being young that is irrelevant except to say that I have lived through several different Labour administrations. They have all ended up in the same way with inflation rising, the economy in pieces and the Country up to its eyes in debt through profligate spending. As always it requires a Conservative Government to pick up the pieces and thus give the less aware the opportunity to selectively pick and criticise.

Labour have destroyed our previously world class pensions system, something YOU will come to realise in due course and will have to pay very heavily for over the remainder oif your working life, as well as funding the interest on Labour's loans.

 

[bengley]

Totally wrong Brown has created a masssive finacial problem, made worse by his removal of ALL control over banking and his freeing up of the Building Societies such as northern Rock to become banks,and gamble with people's money. Like all Labour Chancellors, Brown has spent money which he borrowed until we cannot borrow anymore and now its payback time.

I doubt that you can assume one person forms a cheering mass of support.

12 years after Labour took power you have the amazing concept that it is STILL the Conservatives fault that franchising operates as it does. This is despite overwhelming evidence (easily found if you bother to look) that Labour have had plenty of opportunities to alter things and several opportunities to take the Railways back into Public ownership. This incidentally was a Labour Manifesto committment, confirmed even as late as the night before the General Election. As with all Labour promises and committments it was forgotten the following day once in power.

You talk of the recession as if it has gone away. Far from it, it is simply deepening, incidentally the UK is only one of TWO EU states where things are getting worse. A quick check will confirm this.

Finally you speak of being "condescending". As with your previous post much of what you say is factually incorrect and ill-thought I wonder if you are taken in by Leftist propoganda and Labour hype.

I assume nothing about people being fools it is for them to demonstrate that.

As for being young that is irrelevant except to say that I have lived through several different Labour administrations. They have all ended up in the same way with inflation rising, the economy in pieces and the Country up to its eyes in debt through profligate spending. As always it requires a Conservative Government to pick up the pieces and thus give the less aware the opportunity to selectively pick and criticise.

Labour have destroyed our previously world class pensions system, something YOU will come to realise in due course and will have to pay very heavily for over the remainder oif your working life, as well as funding the interest on Labour's loans.

This may all be true, but if the tories get in, poor people will have a hard time trying to survive.

 

[glynn80]

Totally wrong Brown has created a masssive finacial problem, made worse by his removal of ALL control over banking and his freeing up of the Building Societies such as northern Rock to become banks,and gamble with people's money. Like all Labour Chancellors, Brown has spent money which he borrowed until we cannot borrow anymore and now its payback time.

How ridiculous to claim ALL control over the banking sector has been relinquished by Labour.

The Bank of England is responsible for keeping an eye on the money markets and being the lender of last resort. The FSA supervises the individual banks and looks after the interests of consumers. The Treasury provides the public money for all this and also sets up the regulatory structures.

12 years after Labour took power you have the amazing concept that it is STILL the Conservatives fault that franchising operates as it does. This is despite overwhelming evidence (easily found if you bother to look) that Labour have had plenty of opportunities to alter things and several opportunities to take the Railways back into Public ownership. This incidentally was a Labour Manifesto committment, confirmed even as late as the night before the General Election. As with all Labour promises and committments it was forgotten the following day once in power.

Why do you perpetuate these lies and falsities.

As I believe you well know, the Labour manifesto did not claim that the party intended to renationalise the rail network. It simply stated that "the [rail] system must be run in the public interest with higher levels of investment and effective enforcement of train operators' service commitments."

A simple Google search will easily bring up the full document (http://www.labour-party.org.uk/manifestos/1997/1997-labour-manifesto.shtml).

You talk of the recession as if it has gone away. Far from it, it is simply deepening, incidentally the UK is only one of TWO EU states where things are getting worse. A quick check will confirm this.

Quite the contrary is true, again a quick check will actually confirm that the UK is OUT of recession! Where do you get this drivel claiming the recession is deepening?

Official figures next week are expected to confirm that the UK climbed out of recession in the last quarter of 2009...

...official figures due out next week will show that the UK has officially come out of the recession it has been in since the summer of 2008.

...the economy is officially expected to emerge from recession next Tuesday, when the ONS publishes GDP figures for the fourth quarter of 2009...

The UK finally moved out of recession in the final three months of last year, according to latest estimates...

 

[asylumxl]

Couldn't agree more with you Glynn .

 

[Pumbaa]

Totally wrong Brown has created a masssive finacial problem, made worse by his removal of ALL control over banking and his freeing up of the Building Societies such as northern Rock to become banks,and gamble with people's money. Like all Labour Chancellors, Brown has spent money which he borrowed until we cannot borrow anymore and now its payback time.

Oh please.

You talk of this like it is all Brown's fault. For a start, he acted no differently than any other Chancellor has done since '79. The problem was exacerbated by our economic make-up, our heavy dependance on service sector industries and banking. I don't need to point out at what point in history we rapidly spun off from providing Primary and secondary sector products. As it were, our dependance on tertiary and quaternary made us a lot more vulnerable to world financial mood swings.

You talk of the recession as if it has gone away. Far from it, it is simply deepening, incidentally the UK is only one of TWO EU states where things are getting worse. A quick check will confirm this.

Kindly check again.

As for being young that is irrelevant except to say that I have lived through several different Labour administrations. They have all ended up in the same way with inflation rising, the economy in pieces and the Country up to its eyes in debt through profligate spending. As always it requires a Conservative Government to pick up the pieces and thus give the less aware the opportunity to selectively pick and criticise.

Labour have destroyed our previously world class pensions system, something YOU will come to realise in due course and will have to pay very heavily for over the remainder oif your working life, as well as funding the interest on Labour's loans.

And like most other people who take the above attitude, you probably choose to selectively ignore the fact that we can single-handedly point the blame finger at the Conservatives for adopting the boom-bust policy after the war, for their stubborn refusal and admittance that the ERM was NOT a good thing, and that it's okay as the people who were hit the hardest in the early 90s are the ones who "selectively pick and criticise"?

 

[Failed Unit]

How long will some people blame Mrs T for all of the UK's problems? Some of her policies have resulted in damage to the UK, others have improved them. Pretty much like every government before and probably every one to come. There is no such thing as perfect government.

 

[Oswyntail]

How ridiculous to claim ALL control over the banking sector has been relinquished by Labour.

The Bank of England is responsible for keeping an eye on the money markets and being the lender of last resort. The FSA supervises the individual banks and looks after the interests of consumers. The Treasury provides the public money for all this and also sets up the regulatory structures.

The Treasury does not provide the funds for BofE activities, as they come from BofE reserves; the BofE takes action independently on using those reserves as appropriate (It can, however, be instructed to sell some of its gold reserves if the world-saving chancellor of the time decides that the price is low enough :roll Once the regulatory structure has been implemented, Treasury control is effectively lost until they introduce a new regulatory system. The BofE and the FSA are independent of the government. There is some debate as to whether this is a good thing

Why do you perpetuate these lies and falsities.

As I believe you well know, the Labour manifesto did not claim that the party intended to renationalise the rail network. It simply stated that "the [rail] system must be run in the public interest with higher levels of investment and effective enforcement of train operators' service commitments."

A simple Google search will easily bring up the full document (http://www.labour-party.org.uk/manifestos/1997/1997-labour-manifesto.shtml).

It was not in the manifesto, but Transport spokesman were saying that this meant renationalisation. I have, somewhere, a letter from Clare Short to this effect[/quote]

Quite the contrary is true, again a quick check will actually confirm that the UK is OUT of recession! Where do you get this drivel claiming the recession is deepening?

For the last couple of quarters, the official estimates that have been produced have been promoted beforehand as showing that the recession is over, only to actually show that it had been deepening. I do not know if this has happened with this set, but forgive me for being sceptical.

Sadly, there is not one single area of government activity that has been even a moderate success since 1997 - unless you count a) putting out convincing lies and half-truths or b) winning elections (not itself a government activity, though you would not know it from the way this lot have abused the system). I do not know if the Conservatives would be any better (they can't be any worse, can they?) and i would actually favour a "National Unity" style government to get the country out of the current mess.

 

[Metroland]

How long will some people blame Mrs T for all of the UK's problems? Some of her policies have resulted in damage to the UK, others have improved them. Pretty much like every government before and probably every one to come. There is no such thing as perfect government.

Some of Mrs Thatcher ideas on self reliance, hard work, and generally smaller government were great. But some of her policies that had the unfortunate side effect of greed, unrestricted, unfettered consumption whatever the consequences and crapping on the poorest in society were diabolical. That was much the result of unfettered market capitalism, which needs very careful regulation and works better in some sectors rather than others.

Some of New Labours policies on social reform to untap the talents of people that might not get the chance to excel are great, but the centralised, police state they have created, and the further shift towards a blame/spin culture rather than one of grass roots co-operation and respect stinks.

I'm not convinced that any of the main parties offer too much alternative, whoever is in, you are pretty much going to get the same result and sometimes politicians can't solve everything, much is cultural.

Far too much of the political class end up an Oxbridge doing PPE courses to have any real alternative vision.

 

[Oswyntail]

......Far too much of the political class end up an Oxbridge doing PPE courses to have any real alternative vision.

The rest of this post was steady and reasonable, but please do not buy in to the last bit. I am an Oxford graduate, and I can assure you that there is as much "alternative vision" among that sector of society as there is in any other. It is not the socially elite community that some seem to wish to portray (otherwise I, a Grammar School lad from Wales, would not have been there). What has reduced "alternative vision" is the number of politicians who have gone straight into Parliament without any outside experience (and I discount "Political research" from that). We have now had two Prime Ministers whose career has been almost entirely devoted to serving a party machine, and we look likely to have a third soon. This has led (in Blair/Brown) to the acceptance that they are there to hold power, rather than govern, and their policies and practices have been aimed solely at this end. For this, and many other reasons, i would abolish the idea of "Party" when within any elected body. But that is for another revolution.