EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Dave1987]

Well I can honestly say that May will go down as one of the worst PM's in history. Virtually challenging the sovereignty of Parliament, whinging that they won't capitulate to her, standing at the dispatch box at PMQ's lamenting the fact that parliament is holding her shambles of a Government to account is an insult to democracy itself. This PM needs to go rather than standing at the dispatch box with a face like a smacked bum. I'm a remainer and always will be but even I would rather ANY other PM right now, even a Brexiteer. We are a democracy. Parliament is very symbol of democracy. If a PM stands at a dispatch box and gets away with insulting parliament then we may as well get rid of our democracy and turn into a dictatorship.

 

[edwin_m]

Look mate I am a remainer so to you I may seem biased but in no way are we being blackmailed by the EU. We can have no deal and walk away whenever we want. There is no way that the EU are going to give us a better deal than everyone else. They have to look out for the best interests of the member states. I don't think the EU is perfect, the whole world needs to change.

I'm also a remainer but I am just absolutely staggered by the boneheaded stupidity of almost everyone involved in the whole wretched process. The EU, possibly in conspiracy with May, is trying to bounce a particular deal through just because it's been agreed with a prime minister who has only listened to an unrepresentative minority and not surprisingly come back with a deal that isn't acceptable to anyone else (but more surprisingly it isn't acceptable to the unrepresentative minority either...).

Until about a week ago I actually thought that nobody else could have done any better than May given the hand she'd been dealt, but I've now changed my mind. But I still think any of the likely replacements would have been worse.

 

[EM2]

The EU, possibly in conspiracy with May, is trying to bounce a particular deal through just because it's been agreed

Well of course they are! They negotiated with May. They reached an agreement. It's not their fault that it's as palatable to the country as rancid mincemeat, they would have taken her at her word that it would pass.
'Are you sure this is what you want, Theresa?'
'Oh yes, absolutely!'
'And there will be no problem getting it agreed by everyone else?'
'Nope, definitely not. They'll love it!'
'Well, OK...if you're sure?'
'Don't worry, it'll all be fine!'

 

[Dave1987]

Personally I reckon in just over a week's time we are getting kicked out. I reckon they'll be asking us not to let the door hit our ar*e on the way out. Hope I'm wrong.

The EU is fed up of Britain. We are a tiny island on the north west corner of Europe with a tiny economy compared to the EU. They have already done trade deals with the likes of Japan that has caused damage to the UK. Fox said we would have circa 30 odd trade deals done by our exit. Last time I checked I believe he had negotiated 4! You get the feeling that Macron is completely fed up with the UK and is ready to tell us to just sod off.

 

[Groningen]

Today is 1000 days that you vote to leave in the famous referendum. Word from the NL is that there still be a third vote on leaving, because TM tries to get an extension and makes a difference in her eyes.

 

[edwin_m]

I agree Britain in the shape of the current government seems to have gone out of its way to blame, offend and annoy the EU at every turn. There is some suggestion that the EU might accept a longer delay if accompanied by a concrete plan, but with the degree of mistrust in the UK it's unlikely any such plan will be forthcoming in not much more than a week.

 

[Darandio]

Today is 1000 days that you vote to leave in the famous referendum. Word from the NL is that there still be a third vote on leaving, because TM tries to get an extension and makes a difference in her eyes.

And we are no closer to sorting this shambles than we were in the previous 999.

 

[Groningen]

There is an EU vote on May 23 - 26. What if article 50 is withdrawn between those days and June 30th. TM thinks about new elections and resigning. At 20 hours she will give a statement tonight.

 

[bnm]

Rumours of the PM addressing the nation at 8pm tonight. I suspect it's just to update the public on the delay to Brexit.

But could there be a more momentous announcement...?

 

[Howardh]

Rumours of the PM addressing the nation at 8pm tonight. I suspect it's just to update the public on the delay to Brexit.

But could there be a more momentous announcement...?

She'll announce she's having twins.

 

[Howardh]

And we are no closer to sorting this shambles than we were in the previous 999.

999, how apt. I was ridiculed for saying we need a military coup; I replied it was a gag.
I'm not so sure now - think we need a people's coup. Let the Scots Nationalists take over parliament, they are the only lot that aren't divided and know what they are doing.

 

[Darandio]

Corbyn also walked out of a scheduled meeting with the PM earlier this evening because Chuka Umunna was there. Apparently something was said along the lines of "He's not a proper party leader". People unsure whether he was talking about himself or Umunna.

 

[Howardh]

Corbyn also walked out of a scheduled meeting with the PM earlier this evening because Chuka Umunna was there. Apparently something was said along the lines of "He's not a proper party leader". People unsure whether he was talking about himself or Umunna.

I blame Corbyn for this fiasco as much as, if not more than, May. They are both culpable for the disaster that is unfolding.

 

[Darandio]

So she has spoken, another 5 minutes of my life i'll never get back. Here is the full transcript.

I'm on your (the people) side. None of this is my fault, blame the MP's. Strong and stable.

 

[Mag_seven]

She'll announce she's having twins.

One called Jacob and the other Boris.

 

[Ianno87]

Yep, if you missed the speech don't bother watching it on catchup (Video Plus if you're old-skool). Pathetically pointless.

And Corbyn walking out today.

The ultimate lowpoint in modern British political history today?

 

[Howardh]

Yep, if you missed the speech don't bother watching it on catchup (Video Plus if you're old-skool). Pathetically pointless.

And Corbyn walking out today.

The ultimate lowpoint in modern British political history today?

Yup. Can't get any lower and even worse is a general election won't solve it.

 

[Mag_seven]

And Corbyn walking out today.

The guy would embarrass a left wing student union.

 

[Darandio]

Does she really believe the public are that stupid though? People expect leadership and she gives a 4-5 minute sob story about how none of this is her fault and tries to tug the strings with smatterings of things we should be sorting like schools, the NHS and knife crime. Of course those things need sorting, it's pretty damn obvious but none of it removes any blame for her huge part of this mess.

 

[Struner]

[...]
All this assumes TM isn't planning to resign this evening or something else up her sleeve.
[...]

not very much, a rather pathetic non-event

 

[Ianno87]

Quite interesting the amount of effort she put into trashing the second referendum idea.

Suggests she knows what the 'people' *really* want (as opposed what she *says* they want).

 

[Senex]

What a pair of party-leaders, at the time of just about the most imprtant events in British politics sine WW2. Both of them on ego-trips, Corbyn because his dignity is offended by having someone who recently left his appallingly-led party in the same room, as the "leader" of another group, and May because of her massive self-imprtance in believing that she and she alone has had the vision of what the British public want and is the only person who can lead them into the Promised Land. (Will she in the end earn anything but enduring hatred for herself and her party?)

 

[bramling]

Quite interesting the amount of effort she put into trashing the second referendum idea.

Suggests she knows what the 'people' *really* want (as opposed what she *says* they want).

Part of the trouble is May has made zero effort to “sell” her deal to the populace. Apart from the backstop, does anyone really know anything about her desk and how good or bad it is? That’s a massive failing for a start.

 

[fowler9]

Its because the remain campaign got too involved in the slanging match that was the so-called debate. Had they simply stuck to the facts of EU membership they may have attracted those million or so more votes that would have swung it. And then this mess may not have happened in the first place. As someone who started on the fence, and ended up not voting because of the nonsensical debate, I blame both sides for this situation.

So you know what was going on but still decided not to vote. Nice one.

 

[fowler9]

I'm also a remainer but I am just absolutely staggered by the boneheaded stupidity of almost everyone involved in the whole wretched process. The EU, possibly in conspiracy with May, is trying to bounce a particular deal through just because it's been agreed with a prime minister who has only listened to an unrepresentative minority and not surprisingly come back with a deal that isn't acceptable to anyone else (but more surprisingly it isn't acceptable to the unrepresentative minority either...).

Until about a week ago I actually thought that nobody else could have done any better than May given the hand she'd been dealt, but I've now changed my mind. But I still think any of the likely replacements would have been worse.

So you think that the European Union conspired with May, that no one could have done worse but that anyone else would have done worse? How does that work?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Yep, if you missed the speech don't bother watching it on catchup (Video Plus if you're old-skool). Pathetically pointless.

And Corbyn walking out today.

The ultimate lowpoint in modern British political history today?

Hmmm. This wouldn't be the same Corbyn who met Hamas and described them as 'friends' on the grounds that (to paraphrase), 'you have to talk to people' would it?

 

[Giugiaro]

Given that there's no parliament consensus on the matter, wouldn't the Queen have the power to dissolve the current government and ask parliament to build a new multiparty one from the MP's available on the House of Commons? That would avoid having to go through a snap election and possibly have a new deal reached in the next few months. Given the deal would be negotiated by a government of multiple parties, I expect the new deal to have more acceptance within the House.

Given the government would have to be built from the already elected MP's, I believe that wouldn't be a democratic issue. In Portugal, the current government wasn't the party that didn't get the majority vote, but since it meets the majority of parliamentary consensus, it has worked pretty well, though I wouldn't recommend a single party government for the UK's case.

 

[Bantamzen]

So you know what was going on but still decided not to vote. Nice one.

May I suggest re-reading my post?

 

[JamesT]

Given that there's no parliament consensus on the matter, wouldn't the Queen have the power to dissolve the current government and ask parliament to build a new multiparty one from the MP's available on the House of Commons? That would avoid having to go through a snap election and possibly have a new deal reached in the next few months. Given the deal would be negotiated by a government of multiple parties, I expect the new deal to have more acceptance within the House.

Given the government would have to be built from the already elected MP's, I believe that wouldn't be a democratic issue. In Portugal, the current government wasn't the party that didn't get the majority vote, but since it meets the majority of parliamentary consensus, it has worked pretty well, though I wouldn't recommend a single party government for the UK's case.

She has the power to dismiss the Prime Minister and ask someone else to attempt to form a government. But almost certainly would not use it, the monarchy has mostly kept out of politics.
If you want a change, it requires either Theresa to decide to resign and have a leadership contest in the Conservative party, or a vote of no confidence which brings down the government and forces new elections.

 

[krus_aragon]

Its because the remain campaign got too involved in the slanging match that was the so-called debate. Had they simply stuck to the facts of EU membership they may have attracted those million or so more votes that would have swung it. And then this mess may not have happened in the first place. As someone who started on the fence, and ended up not voting because of the nonsensical debate, I blame both sides for this situation.

True, but it's a bit hard to stick to a line of "these are the benefits of membership" when the other side say "we can leave, and still keep all of those benefits" .