EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Mag_seven]

Let's remind ourselves of what we were told about brexit shall we...
"Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market" - Daniel Hannan MEP

"Only a madman would actually leave the Market" - Owen Paterson MP, Vote Leave backer

"Wouldn't it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They're rich. They're happy. They're self-governing" - Nigel Farage, Ukip leader

"The Norwegian option, the EEA option, I think that it might be initally attractive for some business people" - Matthew Elliot, Vote Leave chief executive

"Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK" - Arron Banks, Leave.EU founder

Every one seems to have forgotten all that.

People don't like admitting they were taken in by lies.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Every one seems to have forgotten all that.

Yes, the far-Right seem to have taken over - that or it was just more lies.

 

[Master29]

Norway and Switzerland both have a fraction of the UK`s population. A point Farage conveniently omits.

 

[A Challenge]

Norway and Switzerland both have a fraction of the UK`s population. A point Farage conveniently omits.

I don't see what that's got to do with whether you could do a Norway or Switzerland style deal. As it is, I think the chances of that happening, May or no May, were small.

I'll stop trying to be impartial as to my position on Brexit and say that in my view, it would have been better if we'd had Leave/remain and then another one how do we leave, but that should have been August 2016 (at least before March 2017) if it was to happen, with everything from EEA to trigger article 50 and do no negotiating on a deal for 2 years (purposeful no deal), done using STV (NI assembly elections)

 

[ABB125]

A summary of views on the topic:

I know Remainers who think there should never have been a referendum, and Remainers who completely disagree with that sentiment.
I know Remainers who think no-deal is the best way forward.
I know people who voted Leave because of the lies spread by "Project Fear", despite being supportive of the EU.
I know people who voted Remain because of the lies spread by the Leave campaign.
I know Leavers who would now vote Remain simply because they've realised that the EU is never going to budge, so the best way to drew them up is from the inside.
I know Remainers who would now vote Leave because of the attitude of the EU.

In other words: a complete mess.

I think it is best summed up by the following phrase (from a Remainer):
"It won't be as bad as people fear, but it won't be as good as people hope either."

 

[fowler9]

A summary of views on the topic:

I know Remainers who think there should never have been a referendum, and Remainers who completely disagree with that sentiment.
I know Remainers who think no-deal is the best way forward.
I know people who voted Leave because of the lies spread by "Project Fear", despite being supportive of the EU.
I know people who voted Remain because of the lies spread by the Leave campaign.
I know Leavers who would now vote Remain simply because they've realised that the EU is never going to budge, so the best way to drew them up is from the inside.
I know Remainers who would now vote Leave because of the attitude of the EU.

In other words: a complete mess.

I think it is best summed up by the following phrase (from a Remainer):
"It won't be as bad as people fear, but it won't be as good as people hope either."

Personally I think you were doing well until the end. It is a complete f**king mess.

 

[Master29]

I don't see what that's got to do with whether you could do a Norway or Switzerland style deal. As it is, I think the chances of that happening, May or no May, were small.

)

Which is more or less what I was trying to say.

 

[Groningen]

Brexiteers hope that at least 1 country in the remaining EU does not give the UK more time for a controlled leaving of the EU. A No Deal is perfect for them.

 

[nidave]

Nigel Farage will not complete Brexit Betrayal March despite urging supporters to join him

https://news.sky.com/story/nigel-fa...=referral&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral


He is taking the money though. He has been asking people to pay to attend. He is a total prat.

 

[Mag_seven]

Meanwhile the government has held talks with the DUP over their concerns over Brexit:

The DUP has welcomed the government's "renewed focus" on addressing its objections to the Brexit deal ahead of next week's third Commons vote.

The party has twice voted against the deal over concerns it would see Northern Ireland treated differently from the rest of the UK.

After talks with ministers in London, its Westminster leader Nigel Dodds said it was still seeking extra guarantees.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47586694

So what about say Scotland's concerns over Brexit? Will the government be having talks with the SNP?

 

[AM9]

There's always the possibility that if Farage and his henchmen make an unanimous delay agreement by the 27 impossible by dubious interference they may fire up Parliament to use the nuclear option of forcing a withdrawl of article 50. Even the EU cannot stop that!

 

[bramling]

There's always the possibility that if Farage and his henchmen make an unanimous delay agreement by the 27 impossible by dubious interference they may fire up Parliament to use the nuclear option of forcing a withdrawl of article 50. Even the EU cannot stop that!

The likelihood is there may well be a three-way choice between
(1) no deal (either on 29th March or at a specified date between then and June).
(2) May's deal (more likely some time between March and June)
(3) Revoking A50.

Hard to say what the likelihood of the third is. I'd say in the three-way choice (2) is ultimately more likely than (3), however were it to be a choice between (1) and (3) then it's hard to call. Future electoral prospects may make many MPs hesitate, especially if popular opinion holds the EU responsible.

Realistically withdrawal of A50 would almost certainly have to be followed by a general election, and pretty much guaranteed a Conservative leadership change at the same time (I hesitate to use the word contest). Goodness knows who the next leader would be - how about a wild card like Gavin Williamson? I can't see any general election result being much different to 2017, so then look forward to more of the same. The only helpful aspect would be if the Conservatives could scrape a Majority along the lines of what Cameron had, thus allowing the DUP to be dispensed with.

 

[nidave]

The likelihood is there may well be a three-way choice between
(1) no deal (either on 29th March or at a specified date between then and June).
(2) May's deal (more likely some time between March and June)
(3) Revoking A50.

Hard to say what the likelihood of the third is. I'd say in the three-way choice (2) is ultimately more likely than (3), however were it to be a choice between (1) and (3) then it's hard to call. Future electoral prospects may make many MPs hesitate, especially if popular opinion holds the EU responsible.

Realistically withdrawal of A50 would almost certainly have to be followed by a general election, and pretty much guaranteed a Conservative leadership change at the same time (I hesitate to use the word contest). Goodness knows who the next leader would be - how about a wild card like Gavin Williamson? I can't see any general election result being much different to 2017, so then look forward to more of the same. The only helpful aspect would be if the Conservatives could scrape a Majority along the lines of what Cameron had, thus allowing the DUP to be dispensed with.

especially if leave voters blame the EU spurred on by fanatical newspapers desperate to make money despite the evidence saying that leaving the EU will cause a massive recession and (according to JRM will taker at least 50 years to get back to where we were - there fixed that for you

 

[nidave]

Friend just posted this on FB - This is what the future is going to be like with no deal

 

[furnessvale]

Friend just posted this on FB - This is what the future is going to be like with no deal

Didn't know aircraft carried standing passengers? Why not just sit down and chill out with a magazine?

 

[AM9]

The likelihood is there may well be a three-way choice between
(1) no deal (either on 29th March or at a specified date between then and June).
(2) May's deal (more likely some time between March and June)
(3) Revoking A50.

Hard to say what the likelihood of the third is. I'd say in the three-way choice (2) is ultimately more likely than (3), however were it to be a choice between (1) and (3) then it's hard to call. Future electoral prospects may make many MPs hesitate, especially if popular opinion holds the EU responsible.

Realistically withdrawal of A50 would almost certainly have to be followed by a general election, and pretty much guaranteed a Conservative leadership change at the same time (I hesitate to use the word contest). Goodness knows who the next leader would be - how about a wild card like Gavin Williamson?

I did say that recent behaviour of the extremist leavers, (think Arron Banks, who whilst not an MP, has been found involved in dubious payments for some extreme leavers' activities).
Williamson, (who has an unbelievably loose tongue on serious matters which for sure would come up during the hustings) would seem a very wild card, probably more than many voters would tolerate. It's bizarre but Hunt has behaved himself lately, enough to garner some interest and a foreign secretary might be seen as an appropriate precursor to a PM role.

 

[Howardh]

Didn't know aircraft carried standing passengers? Why not just sit down and chill out with a magazine?

You can't chill out inside a hot plane when you've been on the tarmac an hour and have no idea when you will get off (or how long you will be in the immigration queues) and the crew won't bring round drinks etc because they can't. Have a go....

 

[Howardh]

So, in order to get her deal through she will give money to Northern Ireland to get the DUP to sign up. So NI will be sunk down the drain for forty pieces of silver. Is this what Brexit means for Britain and democracy, the only way through is bribery and corruption? If it walks like a duck, quack likes a duck, lays eggs like a duck it's a UK Prime Minister.

Q - if remainers crowdfunded a few millions, could we bribe Tory MP's in leave areas to scrap Brexit? Just think what half-a-billion could do for Luton.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...P431162tAl-TqwjV_cDUMMDN5_Pnec3yX-QI42J2QiZ-E

he DUP said it wants a Brexit deal after intensive talks with Cabinet ministers including Philip Hammond amid suggestions Northern Ireland could be offered extra cash to break the impasse.
Nigel Dodds, the DUP’s Westminster leader, said talks had been “constructive” and the Government was focused on resolving the Irish backstop issue.
He met with Mr Hammond, along with Chief Whip Julian Smith, Environment Secretary Michael Gove and the effective deputy prime minister David Lidington.
The presence of the Chancellor prompted speculation that Northern Ireland could be given a funding boost in exchange for the DUP supporting Theresa May’s Brexit deal.

 

[nidave]

Didn't know aircraft carried standing passengers? Why not just sit down and chill out with a magazine?

Seriously - are you trying to be funny or something? FYI he was sat down when the photo was taken - which is obvious.

But go ahead deliberately ignore the point being made.

They are now being held in a queue towards the terminal

All just "project fear" still?

 

[Howardh]

Seriously - are you trying to be funny or something?

They are now being held in a queue towards the terminal
[IMG=600x450]https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...7a19c66dad9855ebb6b1588d530&oe=5D25954B[/IMG]

We should ask all of them now if they're happy they voted Brexit. NB - the link fails!

 

[nidave]

We should ask all of them now if they're happy they voted Brexit. NB - the link fails!

Fixed it 30 min to get off the plane and to queue at the terminal

 

[Howardh]

Fixed it 30 min to get off the plane and to queue at the terminal

To be fair that's 30 minutes quicker than arriving at Manchester.
PS - thanks!

 

[nidave]

To be fair that's 30 minutes quicker than arriving at Manchester.
PS - thanks!

LOL true - its a really badly designed airport - wonder how it will be after brexit
They won't even be able to claim delay compensation under the EU rules as Brexit definitely isn't the airlines fault.

Thankfully will I have an Irish passport application in so can pick and choose which passport I use - about the only good thing about being from N. Ireland

 

[bramling]

So, in order to get her deal through she will give money to Northern Ireland to get the DUP to sign up. So NI will be sunk down the drain for forty pieces of silver. Is this what Brexit means for Britain and democracy, the only way through is bribery and corruption? If it walks like a duck, quack likes a duck, lays eggs like a duck it's a UK Prime Minister.

I'd say a lot of this is more a function of the 2017 election result, and the DUP being needed to form a majority. This is what happens when we have a system geared round majority government. Brexit aside, I agree it's rather unsavoury. The last time we had an arrangement between parties this also seemed to upset some people, judging by the collapse of the Liberal Democrats subsequently, although to be fair I found that government was quite okay, even if it didn't really do much apart from keep things ticking over.

Q - if remainers crowdfunded a few millions, could we bribe Tory MP's in leave areas to scrap Brexit? Just think what half-a-billion could do for Luton.

Luton really needs completely razing to the ground and being rebuilt 100% from scratch. It's hard to think of any other town or city in Britain which is so completely and uniquely beyond redemption!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Luton really needs completely razing to the ground and being rebuilt 100% from scratch. It's hard to think of any other town or city in Britain which is so completely and uniquely beyond redemption!

Ever been to Rotherham?

 

[bramling]

Ever been to Rotherham?

Yes. In my view Luton is worse. At least Rotherham isn't overcrowded and chronically congested 24/7!

 

[Bantamzen]

Seriously - are you trying to be funny or something? FYI he was sat down when the photo was taken - which is obvious.

But go ahead deliberately ignore the point being made.

They are now being held in a queue towards the terminal

All just "project fear" still?

It reminds me of an overheard conversation at Malaga airport last year. A gentleman was annoyed that our flight was going from the furthest terminal from security, when other European flights where much closer. This is due to the way Malaga airport is built, with security & passport control being seperate and so the e-gates are only installed for non-Schengen flights in Terminal 2. He was convinced that this was to spite Brits (not because we are not in Schengen) and that come Brexit it would be "different". Yep it will be different alright, although I'm not sure how this chap imagined!

 

[Howardh]

I'd say a lot of this is more a function of the 2017 election result, and the DUP being needed to form a majority. This is what happens when we have a system geared round majority government. Brexit aside, I agree it's rather unsavoury. The last time we had an arrangement between parties this also seemed to upset some people, judging by the collapse of the Liberal Democrats subsequently, although to be fair I found that government was quite okay, even if it didn't really do much apart from keep things ticking over.



Luton really needs completely razing to the ground and being rebuilt 100% from scratch. It's hard to think of any other town or city in Britain which is so completely and uniquely beyond redemption!

I offer you one Borough of Bolton. So bad even the street beggars have given up.

 

[Howardh]

I'd say a lot of this is more a function of the 2017 election result, and the DUP being needed to form a majority. This is what happens when we have a system geared round majority government. Brexit aside, I agree it's rather unsavoury. The last time we had an arrangement between parties this also seemed to upset some people, judging by the collapse of the Liberal Democrats subsequently, although to be fair I found that government was quite okay, even if it didn't really do much apart from keep things ticking over.

That is the one argument against PR if it brings coalition governments, it's leaving open to all sorts of back-hand deals to get a government, something our lawmakers (aka government) would have to look very carefully at. But still would rather risk that than the current system, something like 60% of voters haven't voted for the government and, unless it's hung, have lost their say.

 

[bramling]

I offer you one Borough of Bolton. So bad even the street beggars have given up.

I'd still live in Bolton over Luton!