EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[EM2]

Watched the BBC2 Europe in crisis last night.
Poor David Cameron if got nothing but embarrassment from the EU, the EU just do not want any changes to systems, policy.

So why did they agree to:

• the opt-out from 'ever closer union'
• the 'emergency brake' on migrants claiming welfare
• the 'red card' which would have allowed a member of the Council of the EU with the support of 15 other members to return a law to the European Parliament for further changes
• the 'beefing up' of the exceptions to the general rule that EU citizens can live and work where they choose in the EU
• a system for non-Eurozone members to object to laws being passed that might harm them. Admittedly, it would not give them a legal opt-out (although EU law already bans discrimination so this is merely an additional protection)?

All of these were won by Cameron, and would have been implemented if Remain had won.

 

[Esker-pades]

So why did they agree to:

• the opt-out from 'ever closer union'
• the 'emergency brake' on migrants claiming welfare
• the 'red card' which would have allowed a member of the Council of the EU with the support of 15 other members to return a law to the European Parliament for further changes
• the 'beefing up' of the exceptions to the general rule that EU citizens can live and work where they choose in the EU
• a system for non-Eurozone members to object to laws being passed that might harm them. Admittedly, it would not give them a legal opt-out (although EU law already bans discrimination so this is merely an additional protection)?

All of these were won by Cameron, and would have been implemented if Remain had won.

And could still be implemented if we do not leave.

 

[nlogax]

Looking ever closer to no deal. The Cooper amendment lost out by 23 votes.

 

[EM2]

So MPs have rejected a no deal Brexit, by 318 votes to 310.
However, this is a non-binding vote, which means that the Government can ignore it.
But would they risk the opprobrium they'd receive ignoring one non-binding vote but not another?

 

[EM2]

This also means that there is nothing close to a majority of MPs for any practical means of actually avoiding No Deal.

 

[nidave]

We are now worse off than yesterday because MP's cant agree on what they don't agree on any more. Such fun!
Now they have to sort an alternative arrangement without anyone saying more than we need an alternative and details don't matter.

The Brexit Secretary can't answer questions on what on earth the government's alternative to the Irish backstop might be, and then adds without a blush "it's time to get on with it"

So to sum up on No Deal : MPs voted that they don’t want to do it, but also voted not to do anything to stop it.

and to prove we are now at the "Let them eat cake" moment

DUP's Sammy Wilson says people should 'go to the chippy' in event of Brexit food shortages

The DUP has been accused of telling people to "go to the chippy instead" if there were food shortages caused by a no-deal Brexit.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...-event-of-brexit-food-shortages-37762888.html

 

[Basher]

So MPs have rejected a no deal Brexit, by 318 votes to 310.
However, this is a non-binding vote, which means that the Government can ignore it.
But would they risk the opprobrium they'd receive ignoring one non-binding vote but not another?

So we have shown our hand of cards to the EU. What a stick up.

 

[nidave]

Reuters UK‏
JUST IN: Spokesman for EU's Donald Tusk says backstop is part of withdrawal agreement, it is not up for renegotiation

19 minutes the plan lasted.
Edit: Apparently it was 5 minutes before it was shot down. So the mythical Alternative remains just as mythical as everyone says it is
https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1090357676964491264

 

[EM2]

So we have shown our hand of cards to the EU. What a stick up.

The EU lays down a royal flush.
UK looks at its own cards: Mr Bun the Baker, Pikachu, a Shadowmage, a fireball spell, and the Fool.

 

[nidave]

The EU lays down a royal flush.
UK looks at its own cards: Mr Bun the Baker, Pikachu, a Shadowmage, a fireball spell, and the Fool.

Another reminder what we were told...

EU needs us more than we need it, says Vote Leave

"We are the fifth largest economy in the world. We will be able to have a decent deal with the EU", said John Moynihan, speaking on BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

"The EU needs a trade deal with us more than we need a trade deal with them".

26 January 2016

Even the Americans think its all mental

After agreeing to the Irish backstop, Theresa May’s government has now reneged on it. Why would anyone negotiate with her now? #Brexit

https://twitter.com/hashtag/Brexit?src=hash
https://twitter.com/RepBrendanBoyle/status/1090351323550236675

 

[furnessvale]

And could still be implemented if we do not leave.

I think not. After the vote I believe the offer was withdrawn by the EU.

 

[HH]

Doomed, doomed I tell you.

 

[Esker-pades]

The two amendments which passed:
1 - Spelman and Dromey (Rejects leaving the EU without a deal)
2 - Brady (Seeks alternative arrangements for the NI Backstop)

Neither is binding, but May was using this as a way to test what there was a majority for.

 

[Groningen]

It is nice of Theresa May party to lay its problem of the backstop on the plate of the EU. We will not allow that Northern Ireland and the 3 parts of the UK keeps on using the internal market.

 

[Senex]

Stephen Barclay was on the Today programme this morning (in a pretty unconvincing interview) referring yet again to "the biggest vote in our history". How significant are the simple numbers of bigness, of the 17.4 million and the 16.1 million, given how much the population has grown over the last 70 years or so? As a proportion of the total electorate, was 17.4 million actually larger than some of the votes in the years after the Second World War?

 

[Mag_seven]

The two amendments which passed:
1 - Spelman and Dromey (Rejects leaving the EU without a deal)
2 - Brady (Seeks alternative arrangements for the NI Backstop)

Neither is binding, but May was using this as a way to test what there was a majority for.

Talking about things that are not binding, the referendum result itself was not binding.

 

[SteveP29]

Watched the BBC2 Europe in crisis last night.
Poor David Cameron if got nothing but embarrassment from the EU, the EU just do not want any changes to systems, policy.
I felt embarrassed at what went on, the same is happening to May. She just put up two fingers to them and walkaway, she is not going to get anything.
The second episode is on next Monday.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...oil-review-david-cameron-brexit-a8750816.html

"Inside Europe: Ten Years of Turmoil review: Shows why David Cameron was quite possibly our worst Prime Minster''
'Paints a vivid portrait of a leader showing no leadership, and explains how we ended up in such a mess over Europe'

The two amendments which passed:
1 - Spelman and Dromey (Rejects leaving the EU without a deal)
2 - Brady (Seeks alternative arrangements for the NI Backstop)

Neither is binding, but May was using this as a way to test what there was a majority for.

Neither was the referendum, but they went ahead with it anyway

 

[AM9]

Stephen Barclay was on the Today programme this morning (in a pretty unconvincing interview) referring yet again to "the biggest vote in our history". How significant are the simple numbers of bigness, of the 17.4 million and the 16.1 million, given how much the population has grown over the last 70 years or so? As a proportion of the total electorate, was 17.4 million actually larger than some of the votes in the years after the Second World War?

The referendum was nothing special in turnout when looking back. At 72.2% of the electorate, every General Election between 1945 and 1992 had a greater turnout, in fact 1997 was only marginally less at 71.4%. So as usual, it was drivel or a lie (depending on the balance of intelligence vs integrity you attribute to the current lot).
The 1975 referendum had a 64.67% turnout.

 

[Jonny]

With a hard Brexit being the default option and just over 49% of MPs going to so far as to put their name to it in a non-binding vote, it seems that Parliament is running low on ideas. The so-called "People's Vote" campaign has proven to be a lot of hot air (and we had an actual People's Vote on 23rd June 2016). The final nail is when the Electoral Commission said that it needed twelve months to arrange such a referendum anyway. With two months on the clock, there is not long enough.

She is dire. The government's approach is dire. The opposition is dire.

And now I read that if - as the EU has insisted all along and which should be of no surprise to anyone - the deal cannot be renegotiated regardless of what's decided this evening in the HoC, then the hardened Leavers will be putting the blame at the door of Brussels.

Pass the single malt.

We’re going to need a good few bottles ....

It's hard to disagree with the description of Parliament as dire. Also, Brussels have been even worse; all they have shown is that they are a load of stubborn donkey's back passages. All Brussels have managed is to fuel the appetite for getting it over and done with.

A lot of N. Ireland shops take the euro anyway with a conversion based on the current rate - a lot of places on both sides of the border take both as well - so its happening but wont stop the issues of having a hard border which the good Friday agreement sates cant be there - lots of contracts for businesses in N. Ireland will pretty much be null and void until renegotiated with whatever ruled the UK decide on or if no rules - therefore things like 9% of electricity generating capacity from the RoI used in N. Ireland becomes void and lights go out. No one can re negotiate these sorts of contracts as no one knows what the final state of play is going to be.

Contracts may be in any currency that the parties agree to - or for an exchange of goods that are considered to be non-currency for that matter.

 

[nidave]

Contracts may be in any currency that the parties agree to - or for an exchange of goods that are considered to be non-currency for that matter.

If the regulatory agreement is not there the contracts become null and void.
Lets see what the UK's solution to this problem to keeping lights on in N. Ireland shall we?
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...y-plan-to-keep-ni-lights-on-if-no-brexit-deal

Do you know something the UK goverment dosent about the GFA and the contracts in place? If so I am sure you will get a well paid job in westminister.

 

[geoffk]

With a hard Brexit being the default option and just over 49% of MPs going to so far as to put their name to it in a non-binding vote, it seems that Parliament is running low on ideas. The so-called "People's Vote" campaign has proven to be a lot of hot air (and we had an actual People's Vote on 23rd June 2016). The final nail is when the Electoral Commission said that it needed twelve months to arrange such a

There is time to organise another referendum if MPs vote for an extension of the Article 50 process, and they will get another chance. The EU is likely to agree to this. Much as I dislike referendums, it's the only way forward as Parliament is deadlocked. Those 14 Labour MPs who voted against the Cooper and Reeves amendments need to ask themselves if they really want to drag the country over a cliff.

 

[HH]

There is time to organise another referendum if MPs vote for an extension of the Article 50 process, and they will get another chance. The EU is likely to agree to this. Much as I dislike referendums, it's the only way forward as Parliament is deadlocked. Those 14 Labour MPs who voted against the Cooper and Reeves amendments need to ask themselves if they really want to drag the country over a cliff.

It's the only way to get our nice blue passports this year...

 

[Muttley]

So why did they agree to:

• the opt-out from 'ever closer union'
• the 'emergency brake' on migrants claiming welfare
• the 'red card' which would have allowed a member of the Council of the EU with the support of 15 other members to return a law to the European Parliament for further changes
• the 'beefing up' of the exceptions to the general rule that EU citizens can live and work where they choose in the EU
• a system for non-Eurozone members to object to laws being passed that might harm them. Admittedly, it would not give them a legal opt-out (although EU law already bans discrimination so this is merely an additional protection)?

All of these were won by Cameron, and would have been implemented if Remain had won.

Because they'd stay only till 2022 when majority voting gets brought in ?

 

[EM2]

Because they'd stay only till 2022 when majority voting gets brought in ?

Majority voting will still not be the case in all areas. Unanimity will be required in numerous areas relating to social security, taxation, justice and home affairs, foreign and security policy, to name just a few.

 

[furnessvale]

Majority voting will still not be the case in all areas. Unanimity will be required in numerous areas relating to social security, taxation, justice and home affairs, foreign and security policy, to name just a few.

That's good. So when we remain, which is the most likely outcome, we will have the satisfaction of screwing them from the inside, just as they have screwed Brexit.

 

[Basher]

There is time to organise another referendum if MPs vote for an extension of the Article 50 process, and they will get another chance. The EU is likely to agree to this. Much as I dislike referendums, it's the only way forward as Parliament is deadlocked. Those 14 Labour MPs who voted against the Cooper and Reeves amendments need to ask themselves if they really want to drag the country over a cliff.

No second referendum is needed. WE ARE GOING OUT. Only bad loosers want a second referendum. Then a 3rd then a 4th !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[EM2]

That's good. So when we remain, which is the most likely outcome, we will have the satisfaction of screwing them from the inside, just as they have screwed Brexit.

How have they screwed it? It's not theirs to screw!
All the UK had to do, was wait two years after the A50 notification, and walk away. The fact that the UK hasn't wanted to do that, suggests that it is a very, very, bad idea.

 

[Mag_seven]

WE ARE GOING OUT.

There is no need to shout.

Only bad loosers want a second referendum.

I think you will find we will all be losers (note the correct spelling of "losers") if we crash out with no deal.

 

[Ianno87]

With a hard Brexit being the default option and just over 49% of MPs going to so far as to put their name to it in a non-binding vote, it seems that Parliament is running low on ideas. The so-called "People's Vote" campaign has proven to be a lot of hot air (and we had an actual People's Vote on 23rd June 2016). The final nail is when the Electoral Commission said that it needed twelve months to arrange such a referendum anyway. With two months on the clock, there is not long enough.

Unless A50 were withdrawn to allow there to be time.

It's hard to disagree with the description of Parliament as dire. Also, Brussels have been even worse; all they have shown is that they are a load of stubborn donkey's back passages. All Brussels have managed is to fuel the appetite for getting it over and done with.



.

The same intransigent and stubborn EU that has historically over many years permitted a number of significant concessions, rebates and opt-outs to the UK?

 

[Ianno87]

There is no need to shout.

We're at the football chanting stage of the debate now. That's how low the argument has sunk.