East Midlands Franchise 2019-

[whhistle]

For the record and something may have a small impact in having it as EMR, East Midlands Railway Limited is a dormant company owned by Go-Ahead

This is fairly common though.
Virgin Trains is the common name, but the actual company name is West Coast Trains LTD.

I wonder if East Midlands Railway is trademarked (by Go-Ahead) though, which means surely another company can't use it?

 

[northwichcat]

This is fairly common though.
Virgin Trains is the common name, but the actual company name is West Coast Trains LTD.

I wonder if East Midlands Railway is trademarked (by Go-Ahead) though, which means surely another company can't use it?

A registered company name is very different to a trademark. For instance, in Manchester Stagecoach have a registered company called Greater Manchester Buses South but they trade as Stagecoach Manchester - another company has traded under Greater Manchester Buses alongside Stagecoach services but if another company tried to call themselves Stagecoach Greater Manchester or Stage Coach Manchester I expect there would be a legal challenge.

 

[TheWalrus]

Well it won’t be will it! Haven’t you read the OP

Thank god for that, GWR are shocking.

 

[whhistle]

Sorry, I couldn't find this online.
Have bids been submitted?

I thought it was due to be announced in April starting later in the year.

 

[43055]

Sorry, I couldn't find this online.
Have bids been submitted?

I thought it was due to be announced in April starting later in the year.

I don't think they have as the franchise is due to start sometime next year. Think its August time.

 

[A0]

A registered company name is very different to a trademark. For instance, in Manchester Stagecoach have a registered company called Greater Manchester Buses South but they trade as Stagecoach Manchester - another company has traded under Greater Manchester Buses alongside Stagecoach services but if another company tried to call themselves Stagecoach Greater Manchester or Stage Coach Manchester I expect there would be a legal challenge.

That Stagecoach one is historic - GM Buses was born out of the old GMPTE - IIRC it was split into GM Buses North and GM Buses South - North was sold to First and South to Stagecoach.

 

[northwichcat]

That Stagecoach one is historic - GM Buses was born out of the old GMPTE - IIRC it was split into GM Buses North and GM Buses South - North was sold to First and South to Stagecoach.

Yes but my point was it's the brand name that matters not the registered company name. I was also referring to the UK North set up which traded under Greater Manchester Buses, opposed to the other part of the original Greater Manchester Buses which was sold to First Group.

 

[londonmidland]

So a friend that works for TransPennine Express has reported that these three codes have been added to the destinations in a recent update.

Interesting...

 

[swt_passenger]

Desiro external displays can be altered by keyboard entry by train crew.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Desiro external displays can be altered by keyboard entry by train crew.

Indeed so.

(Photo is a Class 350/1 in the old blue and grey livery showing "I,m Lost Again")

 

[londonmidland]

Desiro external displays can be altered by keyboard entry by train crew.

Indeed as I have seen many custom made messages on Desiro’s however these one’s were not manually inputted.

As said, these three destinations have been added in an update and are on the TPE database.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

If this is a truthful thing with the relevant codes added to enable these to be keyed in quickly, I question what Leicester is doing there?

 

[LowLevel]

They have to be able to go somewhere in the event of Nottingham being unavailable! EMT 153s and 156s have Cambridge and Birmingham on the blinds but generally don't go there! Incidentally 3 years and 3 months and counting till I can cross Liverpool off my route card - can't come soon enough! They're welcome to their unreliable, congested railway.

 

[northwichcat]

They have to be able to go somewhere in the event of Nottingham being unavailable! EMT 153s and 156s have Cambridge and Birmingham on the blinds but generally don't go there! Incidentally 3 years and 3 months and counting till I can cross Liverpool off my route card - can't come soon enough! They're welcome to their unreliable, congested railway.

Have EMT had the blinds changed since Central Trains days?

Surely TPE terminate short and operate a replacement bus if they can't run to Nottingham over running to a random alternative town in the East Midlands. They don't run to Blackpool or Chester because the line to Liverpool is closed, so why would they run to Leicester or Derby because the line to Nottingham is closed?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Have EMT had the blinds changed since Central Trains days?

I think so, I recall the EMT blinds have a dark blue background, vs the old CT ones which were BR style (or just the old BR ones).

 

[LowLevel]

Have EMT had the blinds changed since Central Trains days?

Surely TPE terminate short and operate a replacement bus if they can't run to Nottingham over running to a random alternative town in the East Midlands. They don't run to Blackpool or Chester because the line to Liverpool is closed, so why would they run to Leicester or Derby because the line to Nottingham is closed?

A small number of Central blinds survive on the 153s (the 156s have largely broken and been removed) - interesting not all the units with Central blinds came from Central!

Yes, it's the newer blue EMT blinds that have destinations not served on them.

As for serving random other towns - this is meant to be an important service for the East Mids as well as the North West. Northern serve Derby as a diversion enabler and EMT Norwich services aren't unknown to serve Leicester if there's a problem. Maybe TPE have designs on those places as well though? Maybe they're future proofing for 'nice to haves' in the future that may or may not happen. Derby in particular is a regular diversion and occasional emergency calling point.

Either way as long as they get me away from the Castlefield Corridor I'm not complaining - they had better not try TUPEing us!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Either way as long as they get me away from the Castlefield Corridor I'm not complaining - they had better not try TUPEing us!

Wouldn't you want to play on all that nice new LHCS and the likes TPE have?

Mind you, there is always the possibility of an AGA style total fleet replacement bid - AGA and EMT have quite a lot in common...then that's all the Sprinters Northern can eat until they all fall to bits

 

[LowLevel]

Wouldn't you want to play on all that nice new LHCS and the likes TPE have?

Mind you, there is always the possibility of an AGA style total fleet replacement bid - AGA and EMT have quite a lot in common...then that's all the Sprinters Northern can eat until they all fall to bits

Going to Liverpool or whatever day in day out might just finish me off. I like working local trains. You can spend more time talking to people and the atmosphere is different. Plus the variety of the routes is pleasant in the East Mids. Urban, rural and inter regional trains all in one go. Plus who knows what will happen, maybe I'll end up on the shiny new London stuff

The fleet will be what it will be - there's no weighting for new trains though and with the distinct lack of staffing and infrastructure throughout our operating area I don't think single manning is an imminent concern - we even have the 20 year old PSB at Worksop ringing block bells at Shirebrook Junction while the 50-60 mile long Skegness branch is littered with old signalling and has large town stations unmanned from early afternoon.

BR was well before Mr Grayling with cost cutting in the East Midlands!

 

[northwichcat]

As for serving random other towns - this is meant to be an important service for the East Mids as well as the North West. Northern serve Derby as a diversion enabler and EMT Norwich services aren't unknown to serve Leicester if there's a problem. Maybe TPE have designs on those places as well though? Maybe they're future proofing for 'nice to haves' in the future that may or may not happen. Derby in particular is a regular diversion and occasional emergency calling point.

I personally don't believe the claim that they've been programmed in, especially considering DfT haven't given the green light to TPE to run services to Nottingham never mind Network Rail allowing TPE to run 185s to all of Nottingham, Leicester and Derby. Unless First win the East Midlands franchise I can't see 185s running to Leicester - they'd face strong opposition from the EMT franchise.

Either way as long as they get me away from the Castlefield Corridor I'm not complaining - they had better not try TUPEing us!

Surely some Nottingham drivers will get TUPE. TPE will need more drivers and East Midlands will need fewer.

 

[edwin_m]

I don't think we should read too much into this. If they have to update the displays for some other reason and there is spare memory available, they might as well programme in any destinations they think they might need in the next few years. By doing that there's a chance they won't have to go through the same process again in the future.

 

[LowLevel]

I personally don't believe the claim that they've been programmed in, especially considering DfT haven't given the green light to TPE to run services to Nottingham never mind Network Rail allowing TPE to run 185s to all of Nottingham, Leicester and Derby. Unless First win the East Midlands franchise I can't see 185s running to Leicester - they'd face strong opposition from the EMT franchise.



Surely some Nottingham drivers will get TUPE. TPE will need more drivers and East Midlands will need fewer.

You may be correct. Railway staff love a wind up. I'm sure someone will confirm at some point. As for train crew, TPE have a depot at Sheffield - a limited number of EMT crew may be interested but I can't imagine there will be a TPE depot at Notts.

 

[TheBigD]

...TPE will need more drivers and East Midlands will need fewer...

I doubt EMT will need fewer drivers. There's a huge uplift in Lincolnshire services proposed in the new franchise which will require a lot more crews.
They may not be at Nottingham though.

 

[Kneedown]

Going to Liverpool or whatever day in day out might just finish me off. I like working local trains. You can spend more time talking to people and the atmosphere is different. Plus the variety of the routes is pleasant in the East Mids. Urban, rural and inter regional trains all in one go. Plus who knows what will happen, maybe I'll end up on the shiny new London stuff

The fleet will be what it will be - there's no weighting for new trains though and with the distinct lack of staffing and infrastructure throughout our operating area I don't think single manning is an imminent concern - we even have the 20 year old PSB at Worksop ringing block bells at Shirebrook Junction while the 50-60 mile long Skegness branch is littered with old signalling and has large town stations unmanned from early afternoon.

BR was well before Mr Grayling with cost cutting in the East Midlands!

If you dislike the Liverpool route so much, and love local work, you could always transfer to Lincoln or Boston. You'd never have to go to Liverpool again!
Me? I'd prefer to keep the work and not play around with the livelihoods of ~100 Drivers & Guards.

 

[LowLevel]

If you dislike the Liverpool route so much, and love local work, you could always transfer to Lincoln or Boston. You'd never have to go to Liverpool again!
Me? I'd prefer to keep the work and not play around with the livelihoods of ~100 Drivers & Guards.

I don't particularly fancy moving all the way out there!

In all seriousness it appears to be out of our hands. I make a good fist of working those trains and there was a time I enjoyed it but the complete shambles the route has degraded to in the last few years has killed it for me.

It's in the ITT what they want to do with it, along with the implication that the wait is to provide alternative work for the staff involved.

Same as the last 4 years have been - it's a wait and see game while other people play trains with our future.

 

[LowLevel]

Or perhaps to put it more diplomatically - I resent deeply the paper shuffling exercise putting people ill at ease and on a personal level the implication that the only answer to provide a decent service standard can be TPE - I think we are just as good if not better and I know the resentment is similar throughout the North with the cherry picking that has gone on there.

On that basis I'd have left things as they are.

As however neither your or my own irritation over various aspects over the decision makes any impact on it I can't lie and say I'll be crying into my pillow at the prospect of not going to Liverpool anymore - it can be truly horrible work for the on board crews with the blend of infrastructure, rolling stock and social issues (large numbers of rival football teams, heavy student loading with luggage at weekends etc).

If it reverses then all well and good I suppose, I'll continue grinning and bearing it as I do now. But I certainly don't want to end up working for TPE at any price.

 

[The Ham]

I don't think we should read too much into this. If they have to update the displays for some other reason and there is spare memory available, they might as well programme in any destinations they think they might need in the next few years. By doing that there's a chance they won't have to go through the same process again in the future.

It could even be that they have done a fleet wide update because of places where there are discussions about where the spare 185's could be used (being done as there was other changes which needed doing anyway). Which could be with another company, but because it is fleet wide they come up on the TPE units.

Likewise until something is announced I'll just wait and see, and not jump to conclusions about what may or may not be.

 

[Skymonster]

I personally don't believe the claim that they've been programmed in, especially considering DfT haven't given the green light to TPE to run services to Nottingham never mind Network Rail allowing TPE to run 185s to all of Nottingham, Leicester and Derby. Unless First win the East Midlands franchise I can't see 185s running to Leicester - they'd face strong opposition from the EMT franchise.

The East Midlands ITT is currently with the shortlisted bidders, with the deadline for submissions being September 5 - next week in fact. I'd be surprised if TPE was given the nod to expand its network while the East Midlands ITT process is ongoing, as it could materially affect the bid responses (shape of network, competition, passenger numbers, revenue projections, etc.). Equally, IIRC the East Midlands ITT suggested bidders should submit proposals for splitting the Nottingham-Liverpool, and until those proposals are evaluated a decision to transfer it to TPE would seem to be a little premature.

 

[edwin_m]

The East Midlands ITT is currently with the shortlisted bidders, with the deadline for submissions being September 5 - next week in fact. I'd be surprised if TPE was given the nod to expand its network while the East Midlands ITT process is ongoing, as it could materially affect the bid responses (shape of network, competition, passenger numbers, revenue projections, etc.). Equally, IIRC the East Midlands ITT suggested bidders should submit proposals for splitting the Nottingham-Liverpool, and until those proposals are evaluated a decision to transfer it to TPE would seem to be a little premature.

I imagine they have got a price from TPE for taking over Liverpool-Nottingham and they will look at offers from the East Midlands bidders. If a bidder's offer excludes Liverpool-Nottingham then they will in effect add in the TPE price when comparing it with other offers.

 

[43096]

Unless First win the East Midlands franchise I can't see 185s running to Leicester - they'd face strong opposition from the EMT franchise.

First have pulled out of the East Mids franchise competition, have they not?

 

[Kneedown]

Or perhaps to put it more diplomatically - I resent deeply the paper shuffling exercise putting people ill at ease and on a personal level the implication that the only answer to provide a decent service standard can be TPE - I think we are just as good if not better and I know the resentment is similar throughout the North with the cherry picking that has gone on there.

On that basis I'd have left things as they are.

As however neither your or my own irritation over various aspects over the decision makes any impact on it I can't lie and say I'll be crying into my pillow at the prospect of not going to Liverpool anymore - it can be truly horrible work for the on board crews with the blend of infrastructure, rolling stock and social issues (large numbers of rival football teams, heavy student loading with luggage at weekends etc).

Whatever will be, will be, and there is nothing you or I can do about it, so lets just see what happens and worry later.
We all have our own pet hate routes. Robin Hood services and non HST formed Skeggys are mine. We have to take the rough with the smooth though, as in any job.