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Gatwick Express service went the wrong way after previous service cancelled

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northwichcat

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The Independent said:
Hundreds of holidaymakers had their journey plans jeopardised or wrecked when the Gatwick Express train service delayed their arrival at the airport by nearly 90 minutes.

The non-stop train from London Victoria normally runs four times an hour, taking around 30 minutes. Early on Sunday mornings, though, departures are only half-hourly– making it crucial that trains run as scheduled.

But the 6.30am service on 5 August was cancelled “because of a short-notice crew shortage,” according to Gatwick Express. The operator is part of the much-criticised Govia Thameslink franchise.

Passengers who had just missed the 6am train were then told to board the 7am for what was scheduled to be a 37-minute journey.

But about 10 minutes into the run, the train was misrouted by a signalling error at Balham onto the slow line. Normally this would not be a problem, because it would simply be routed back to the fast line. But the tracks were blocked between Selhurst and East Croydon by engineering work.

To make matters worse, another train was sent along the slow line, preventing the Gatwick Express from reversing to Balham.

The Independent is trying to establish why it could not have been routed back to the fast line at a different point, for example Streatham.

Passengers had to sit and watch as a succession of trains for Gatwick, which had left London Victoria after them, race past on the fast line.

As tension increased and tempers frayed inside the stationary train, several passengers set off emergency alarms, adding to the delay.

One passenger, Jacob Neville, tweeted: “Spectacular f***-up by Gatwick Express the signaller has forgotten to redirect the train to avoid rail works and now a train full of people are probably going to be missing their flights…”

The train eventually reached Gatwick 57 minutes late, at 8.34am.

For those who had tried to travel on the 6.30am train, due to arrive at 7.06am, the delay was almost 90 minutes.

One of the passengers on board was Michael Punter, who was with his family trying to catch the 9.05am easyJet flight to Rome in order to join a cruise.

He later tweeted: “We missed our flight today and thus the departure for our cruise due to a ‘boo boo’ by the signallers sending our train (Gatwick express) onto the wrong line!”

Twenty-four hours later, he reported that he had managed to catch up with the ship by travelling to Heathrow, flying to Nice and taking a train to Cannes – all at his expense.

Two teenagers who were booked on the only flight of the week from Gatwick to Tobago missed the check-in deadline – only to see their plane’s departure delayed by 23 minutes.

The mother of one of them said: “It’s too heartbreaking as they’d saved all year for their trip and paid for it themselves.”

A spokesperson for the train operator said: “We are very sorry to passengers for the disruption to two consecutive Gatwick Express services on Sunday morning.

“Anyone whose Gatwick Express journey is delayed by 15 minutes or more is entitled to claim compensation through our Delay Repay scheme.”

Claiming back the £19.90 cost of the ticket is likely to be of little comfort to passengers who lost hundreds or thousands of pounds as a result of the snarl-ups.

However, a change in the National Rail Conditions of Travel in March 2018 may come to the aid of delayed travellers.

An exclusion of liability for so-called “consequential losses” has been replaced by a reference to the option of claiming under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 “where a service is not performed with reasonable care and skill”.

Gatwick Express said: “Any claim should be sent to our customer relations team where they will be assessed individually.”

Last week Gatwick Express was admonished by the Advertising Standards Authority for journey-time claims.

The “daily performance report” for the service on Sunday shows that fewer than half the trains arrived on time, though six out of seven were no more than five minutes late.

https://www.independent.co.uk/trave...issed-flights-engineering-works-a8479566.html

Must give the foreign tourists the impression that not only is our railway system more pricey than many European countries but you pay more for a rubbish service.
 
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bussnapperwm

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Must give the foreign tourists the impression that not only is our railway system more pricey than many European countries but you pay more for a rubbish service.

Held hostage to high fares but paying them any way... classic case of Stockholm Syndrome
 

ForTheLoveOf

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I do think this is one of the kinds of cases where consequential loss claims might have some merit. Yes, it was Network Rail that screwed up here, not GX, but ultimately the passenger's contract is with GX and NR doesn't have any contract with the passenger. Ultimately it was GX's train that was late.

If the passengers left enough time before their flight (e.g. just over 2 hours for a short-haul flight or 3 for a long-haul), then, since in my view it is foreseeable that someone with a ticket to "Gatwick Airport" (especially something other than a Day Return) might be flying somewhere, I think at least some of the cost of a new flight might be recoverable from GX.

If people think that this leads to too much of a compensation bill then perhaps Single and (Month) Return fares to Gatwick Airport specifically ought to include a supplement for insuring against this kind of consequential loss, with only customers who buy their ticket to the Airport specifically being covered. I am sure not all travel insurance would cover this kind of consequential loss, at least not without adding optional extras.
 

Ianno87

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The Independent is trying to establish why it could not have been routed back to the fast line at a different point, for example Streatham.

The Independent needs to buy a set of Quail Maps.
 

nickswift99

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I do think this is one of the kinds of cases where consequential loss claims might have some merit. Yes, it was Network Rail that screwed up here, not GX, but ultimately the passenger's contract is with GX and NR doesn't have any contract with the passenger. Ultimately it was GX's train that was late.

If the passengers left enough time before their flight (e.g. just over 2 hours for a short-haul flight or 3 for a long-haul), then, since in my view it is foreseeable that someone with a ticket to "Gatwick Airport" (especially something other than a Day Return) might be flying somewhere, I think at least some of the cost of a new flight might be recoverable from GX.

If people think that this leads to too much of a compensation bill then perhaps Single and (Month) Return fares to Gatwick Airport specifically ought to include a supplement for insuring against this kind of consequential loss, with only customers who buy their ticket to the Airport specifically being covered. I am sure not all travel insurance would cover this kind of consequential loss, at least not without adding optional extras.
Many travel policies will cover, to some extent, the loss of rebooking travel if public transport fails. However, many will require you to try to recover what you can from the operator that failed. This may be Delay Repay but in these circumstances I could imagine an insurer wanting to try to recover some of the consequential loss.
 

AndrewE

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The Independent needs to buy a set of Quail Maps.
How does that help the people that bought tickets to Gatwick, but missed their flights by miles? Perhaps like some others here you think that if catching their flight is important to them then they ought to drive? Maybe travel the day before an book into a hotel to make sure? Welcome to third-world Britain!
 

Ianno87

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How does that help the people that bought tickets to Gatwick, but missed their flights by miles? Perhaps like some others here you think that if catching their flight is important to them then they ought to drive? Maybe travel the day before an book into a hotel to make sure? Welcome to third-world Britain!

Calm down. I never said it did, and totally empathise with the passengers.


Merely just suggesting some shortcomings with the Independent's "research".
 

Bromley boy

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Calm down. I never said it did, and totally empathise with the passengers.


Merely just suggesting some shortcomings with the Independent's "research".

Let’s hope the poor sod driving it changed ends on the ballast rather than walking through.
 

philthetube

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I do think this is one of the kinds of cases where consequential loss claims might have some merit. Yes, it was Network Rail that screwed up here, not GX, but ultimately the passenger's contract is with GX and NR doesn't have any contract with the passenger. Ultimately it was GX's train that was late.

If the passengers left enough time before their flight (e.g. just over 2 hours for a short-haul flight or 3 for a long-haul), then, since in my view it is foreseeable that someone with a ticket to "Gatwick Airport" (especially something other than a Day Return) might be flying somewhere, I think at least some of the cost of a new flight might be recoverable from GX.

If people think that this leads to too much of a compensation bill then perhaps Single and (Month) Return fares to Gatwick Airport specifically ought to include a supplement for insuring against this kind of consequential loss, with only customers who buy their ticket to the Airport specifically being covered. I am sure not all travel insurance would cover this kind of consequential loss, at least not without adding optional extras.
Wouldnt the driver also have some responsibility, although standing instructions may be accept any route I would expect them to be aware of which tracks were open on the day.
 

Bromley boy

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Wouldnt the driver also have some responsibility, although standing instructions may be accept any route I would expect them to be aware of which tracks were open on the day.

Nope.

It’s down to the signallers to route you around possessions.

Drivers aren't routinely advised about possessions and when they are started/finished. For example, it’s not unusual for late night trains on a stretch of 4 track mainline I sign to be routed exclusively along the fasts/slows due to possessions taking effect. First you know about it is when you’re checked down and crossed over.

You wouldn’t normally challenge an unusual route that, unknown possessions aside, would still get you to where you diagram needed you to be (fasts to slows in this case).
 
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Mag_seven

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Wouldnt the driver also have some responsibility, although standing instructions may be accept any route I would expect them to be aware of which tracks were open on the day.

I wonder how the delay was split - if it was 50% TOC, 50% NR then that would imply that the driver should have queried the route if 100% NR then not.
 

Hadders

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Perhaps like some others here you think that if catching their flight is important to them then they ought to drive?

Delays on the roads never happen.....

I've been trapped on the M1 for over 2 hours before without moving a single inch. Thankfully I wasn't on my way to the airport but I did miss an important meeting. No delay repay let alone consequential loss is payable of delayed when driving.
 

AndrewE

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This discussion is about as relevant or helpful as asking how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. People were going to the airport to get their flights and a railway operating failure (that sounds amateurish in the extreme, at least the way it was reported) means they will have missed their flights, and quite likely the whole of their annual foreign holiday. Arguing about whether they might get something for consequential loss (if they can afford to sue) will never help rebuild their confidence to the point that they will trust rail again.
 

AndrewE

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Delays on the roads never happen.....
I've been trapped on the M1 for over 2 hours before without moving a single inch. Thankfully I wasn't on my way to the airport but I did miss an important meeting. No delay repay let alone consequential loss is payable of delayed when driving.

Of course they do, and if a flight or something else is really important then you allow an hour (or two - or more) recovery time. It's really odd, but people look at a railway timetable or website travel schedule and then imagine it might provide a reliable guide for their planned journey! I wonder how long that might continue?
 
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Bromley boy

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Don't they still have to carry a WON? (Weekly Operating Notice)

They do, but still (AFAIK) the drivers remit isn’t to query routes based on possessions which could be changed at short notice and aren’t featured on the late notice case. I’ve never done it and don’t know of anyone who would...

(You’ve got me wondering, I must admit :s)
 

Darandio

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Of course they do, and if a flight or something else is really important then you allow an hour (or two - or more) recovery time. It's really odd, but people look at a railway timetable or website travel schedule and then imagine it might provide a reliable guide for their planned journey! I wonder how long that might continue?

And the vast majority of the time they will get there in a reliable and timely manner.
 

Ianno87

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This discussion is about as relevant or helpful as asking how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. People were going to the airport to get their flights and a railway operating failure (that sounds amateurish in the extreme, at least the way it was reported) means they will have missed their flights, and quite likely the whole of their annual foreign holiday. Arguing about whether they might get something for consequential loss (if they can afford to sue) will never help rebuild their confidence to the point that they will trust rail again.

I recall watching an episode of Airline back in the day, where an accident (or "road operating failure") on the M1 caused a load of people to miss their easyJet flights at Luton. I imagine it destroyed those passengers' confidence on relying on road transport to reach their flight.
 

AndrewE

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And the vast majority of the time they will get there in a reliable and timely manner. You are really on one this evening, aren't you?
Maybe it's the result of my embarrassment from too many failures when people I know and like have tried to take my advice (and help themselves and the environment) by using rail rather than cars, when it all blows up in their face. If you can only risk going somewhere by train if you can afford a hotel night before your flight departure or meeting (or if you actually want to get home the same day after one) why would you trust rail? (or to put it another way, waste your money?)
 

Hadders

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Of course they do, and if a flight or something else is really important then you allow an hour (or two - or more) recovery time. It's really odd, but people look at a railway timetable or website travel schedule and then imagine it might provide a reliable guide for their planned journey! I wonder how long that might continue?

There’s always the chance of a delay whatever form of transport is used.

If the journey is that important then you need to allow additional time to be certain.

I never understand why people are less tolerant of railway delays compared to travelling by road or air. Don’t get me wrong, i’m not defending the Gatwick Express performance but people do seem to expect more from the railway compared to other forms of transport.
 

GB

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They do, but still (AFAIK) the drivers remit isn’t to query routes based on possessions which could be changed at short notice and aren’t featured on the late notice case. I’ve never done it and don’t know of anyone who would...

(You’ve got me wondering, I must admit :s)

Whats in the WON may not reflect what is actually happening on the ground as anything can change....including limiting points and times...and of course WONs do not cater for short notice or otherwise emergency possessions. Definitely not up to the driver to question the route under the circumstances imo unless you knew the work was on anyway.
 

Bromley boy

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Whats in the WON may not reflect what is actually happening on the ground as anything can change....including limiting points and times...and of course WONs do not cater for short notice or otherwise emergency possessions. Definitely not up to the driver to question the route under the circumstances imo unless you knew the work was on anyway.

Ta - that agrees with my understanding.

If you drive passed a possession stop board, it’s treated as a spad, and is an extremely serious error by the signaller for obvious reasons (risk of hitting p-way and, just as seriously, your train livening isolated third rail/OHLE when it’s being worked on).
 
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sheff1

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I never understand why people are less tolerant of railway delays compared to travelling by road ...

When booking a rail ticket you do so to travel on train which is advertised to depart and arrive at specific times. The train runs on dedicated regulated infrastructure which is only available to be used by trains which are driven by fully qualified staff - no 'amateur' can turn up and set off at the controls at whatever time takes their fancy.

For a road journey any barely qualified person (including those without a licence) can jump in a car and drive off at whatever time they like. There is no capacity regulation or timetable. Anyone who has ever used the roads is likely to know that the standard of driving they will encounter on a normal day can be pretty poor - this might include, amongst others, people who have apparently never driven on a motorway before and think it is fine to go along in the middle lane at 50 mph and those who travel at well over the speed limit a few yards behind the car in front.

Most people will be more familiar with road travel than rail travel and will have some understanding why/how road traffic delays may occur. Expecting trains to run in accordance with the advertised timetable is not unreasonable* (although it may well be seen as naive by more experienced rail travellers) and delays can be less easy for the layman to understand, particularly when the reasons given by a TOC can sometimes be vague, or even incomprehensible.

*especially when someone has seen adverts along the lines of "let the train take the stress out of getting to the airport - no need to worry about traffic delays" etc.
 
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Bromley boy

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When booking a rail ticket you do so to travel on train which is advertised to depart and arrive at specific times. The train runs on dedicated regulated infrastructure which is only available to be used by trains which are driven by fully qualified staff - no 'amateur' can turn up and set off at the controls at whatever time takes their fancy.

True, and the vast majority of the time you will get where you need to be by train far more reliably than by car.

But mistakes happen, equipment fails, things go wrong. Worst case scenario (happens almost daily somewhere), someone jumps in front of the train immediately ahead of yours. All bets are off and you’re not going anywhere for a couple of hours.

That’s life.

As always with these threads I find it regrettable that a forum of railway enthusiasts doesn’t seem to have any more insight into these issues than the man on the street.
 

Islineclear3_1

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Sad as it is, but why can't people plan their travel better?

It's a Sunday, less trains run, lots of people want to travel, the journey "might" take longer than expected....

Don't GX or TL run during the night? Is it really beyond the wit of man to perhaps travel an hour earlier?

I'll get me coat....
 

AndrewE

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Sad as it is, but why can't people plan their travel better?
It's a Sunday, less trains run, lots of people want to travel, the journey "might" take longer than expected....
Don't GX or TL run during the night? Is it really beyond the wit of man to perhaps travel an hour earlier?
I'll get me coat....
except that people were at the station in good time to catch the 0630 (and might even have had - or thought they had - GX -only tickets) - which was cancelled because of a traincrew shortage (how's that for professional?) then the 0700 didn't arrive at Gatwick until 0834 or so, about 1 1/2 hours after their 0630 37-minute service should have. If you promote a timetable you shouldn't be surprised - or blame them - if the gullible public get taken in. If you were buying a spade that failed so miserably you could go to trading standards. Sadly the consequential losses from rail failures have far worse uncompensated consequences.
 

Bletchleyite

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I recall watching an episode of Airline back in the day, where an accident (or "road operating failure") on the M1 caused a load of people to miss their easyJet flights at Luton. I imagine it destroyed those passengers' confidence on relying on road transport to reach their flight.

When going from MK to Luton Airport I've tended to use the A5 rather than the M1 because of precisely that risk. With a single carriageway A road you'll almost always be able to turn round and go a different way.
 

Bletchleyite

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except that people were at the station in good time to catch the 0630 (and might even have had - or thought they had - GX -only tickets) - which was cancelled because of a traincrew shortage (how's that for professional?) then the 0700 didn't arrive at Gatwick until 0834 or so, about two hours after their 0630 37-minute service should have. If you promote a timetable you shouldn't be surprised - or blame them - if the gullible public get taken in. If you were buying a spade that failed so miserably you could go to trading standards. Sadly the consequential losses from rail failures have far worse uncompensated consequences.

It isn't reasonable to expect people to leave two hours *additional slack* on a short haul flight. For short haul check in closes at 40 minutes, typically, so in practice an hour minimum. Most sensible people will leave on top of that the possibility of one cancelled train or an additional hour, whichever is longer, so two hours before. So this was clearly going to cause a load of missed flights, and as it was due to incompetence...
 

Surreytraveller

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Sad as it is, but why can't people plan their travel better?

It's a Sunday, less trains run, lots of people want to travel, the journey "might" take longer than expected....

Don't GX or TL run during the night? Is it really beyond the wit of man to perhaps travel an hour earlier?

I'll get me coat....

People travelling to the airport tend not to be regular travellers. They probably think there's hardly anyone around at that time on a Sunday, and would have no reason to think it would take longer because its a Sunday morning.
GX do not run all night, and nor do TL on Saturday nights into Sunday morning .
 
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