EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Jonny]

Which is why the U.K. government should have made clear that the tens of billions the EU is expecting on a plate when we leave isn’t guaranteed unless they play ball.

Hit them where it hurts to concentrate their minds...

Which is just one of the many reasons that the EU would be complete and utter fools to go for a hard brexit. Well, either fools or hell-bent on revenge. Or both...

 

[EM2]

These are not the kind of people we should be chasing away.

But we're happy enough to chase away equally well-qualified people just because they come from the EU.

Which is why the U.K. government should have made clear that the tens of billions the EU is expecting on a plate when we leave isn’t guaranteed unless they play ball.

Hit them where it hurts to concentrate their minds...

All they're asking for is what we'd already promised to pay, before we decided that we were going to leave.

 

[bramling]

Which is just one of the many reasons that the EU would be complete and utter fools to go for a hard brexit. Well, either fools or hell-bent on revenge. Or both...

The EU were complete and utter fools to go for a single currency on ideological grounds, yet this didn't stop them...

 

[Howardh]

And five years down the road, when people see that, far from experiencing some tangible evidence that their lives are better, in all sorts of ways and not just the economic their lives are actually worse, what will they think of the politicians who led them down this road?

Politicians can be voted out, Brexit can't. Probably.

 

[Bromley boy]

Politicians can be voted out, Brexit can't. Probably.

If you’re concerned about being able to vote to avoid things you don’t like, you should have voted leave.

 

[Bromley boy]

But we're happy enough to chase away equally well-qualified people just because they come from the EU.

Are we? Who said Brexit is about chasing people away? It’s about controlling our own immigration policy rather than having it imposed on us by others.

All they're asking for is what we'd already promised to pay, before we decided that we were going to leave.

Well things have changed.

We have bankrolled the EU for decades, as one of the few net contributors. If the EU want further bankrolling they should agree to a bespoke deal, befitting of our enormous contribution over the years.

If they aren’t prepared to do that, we should cut off financial support immediately.

(If the government had negotiated on that basis in the first place I suspect things would be progressing more positively than they are).

 

[mmh]

Which is just one of the many reasons that the EU would be complete and utter fools to go for a hard brexit. Well, either fools or hell-bent on revenge. Or both...

Both, plus a wish to deter other members from daring to leave.

 

[AlterEgo]

Are you happy with the Labour Party tearing itself apart?

I see Jezza has served up another helping of disappointment, with a generous dollop of dashed expectations, to the Jewish community.

Worth a thread of its own but the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism isn’t one I’d agree with, because it removes people’s right to criticise or call into question the existence of Israel as a state. I think such criticism should be perfectly allowable, in and of itself.

There’s nothing anti-Semitic at all about plainly saying Israel is a disputed territory, shouldn’t have been created, and so on. I could think of dozens of examples around there world of states where such criticism would be perfectly allowable.

 

[Jonny]

Both, plus a wish to deter other members from daring to leave.

The loss of Britain's payments from the five-year cycle will throw the European Commission - the part of the EU that allocates funding, among other things - into utter chaos. Especially since, as their own website states, "Own resources are the EU's revenue. Annual expenditure must be completely covered by annual revenue." (source) The EU are in a very precarious grandstand position indeed. The adverse effects of a hard Brexit will last for weeks at most. The EU will never recover.

 

[EM2]

Are we? Who said Brexit is about chasing people away? It’s about controlling our own immigration policy rather than having it imposed on us by others.

Yes we are. It's what is happening. There have been numerous stories about very highly-qualified professionals, with EU nationalities, that have been forced out of the UK.

Well things have changed.

Only in the respect that we've decided to leave. We had promised to pay a certain amount to the EU and the EU had budgeted to spend that money in whatever way they needed to. We have now decided that we're no longer going to be members, and the EU are simply asking for what was promised.

 

[Howardh]

If you’re concerned about being able to vote to avoid things you don’t like, you should have voted leave.

Soz, I don't understand that
I like being in the EU, why would I vote to leave it??

 

[Jonny]

Only in the respect that we've decided to leave. We had promised to pay a certain amount to the EU and the EU had budgeted to spend that money in whatever way they needed to. We have now decided that we're no longer going to be members, and the EU are simply asking for what was promised.

Except that we (Britain) will be working out our notice period. Once that is done, the EU has had more than enough time to prepare. They will just have to cope.

 

[450.emu]

May's leadership is beginning to sag like the OHLE on the Enfield Town line in summer... now reduced to a touring roadshow trying to beg each invidual EU state for a trade deal, of course they will all say no. Labour opposition too busy fighting each other to capitalise on the poor state of the government. Looks like England will crash out of the Euro's. Cue Match of the Day style post mortem this time next year as we try to figure out what on earth went wrong

 

[EM2]

Except that we (Britain) will be working out our notice period. Once that is done, the EU has had more than enough time to prepare. They will just have to cope.

Well, yes. That's obvious.
Who has suggested paying in once we leave (outside of a Norway-style arrangement)?

 

[nlogax]

May's leadership is beginning to sag like the OHLE on the Enfield Town line in summer...

Oooof..harsh but fair..

 

[Bromley boy]

Worth a thread of its own but the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism isn’t one I’d agree with, because it removes people’s right to criticise or call into question the existence of Israel as a state. I think such criticism should be perfectly allowable, in and of itself.

There’s nothing anti-Semitic at all about plainly saying Israel is a disputed territory, shouldn’t have been created, and so on. I could think of dozens of examples around there world of states where such criticism would be perfectly allowable.

I think it turns on the definition of criticism/questioning - interesting point - thread forthcoming - watch this space!

Yes we are. It's what is happening. There have been numerous stories about very highly-qualified professionals, with EU nationalities, that have been forced out of the UK.

Name one. We are currently paid up members of the EU. Which EU nationals have been “forced out of the UK”, as opposed to choosing to leave!?

Soz, I don't understand that
I like being in the EU, why would I vote to leave it??

Soz. You’ve missed the point.

 

[317 forever]

Even if we leave the EU with some kind of deal, we will still have to start from scratch in dealing with other countries, having at best WTO rules. Any deals we have with other countries through the EU will become null and void once we leave the EU.

 

[EM2]

Name one. We are currently paid up members of the EU. Which EU nationals have been “forced out of the UK”, as opposed to choosing to leave!?

A Spanish friend whose company are now closing their UK office and concentrating all their staff in Spain. If she wants to remain with that company (who are leaders in their field) for whom she has worked for twenty years, risen to a senior position and has a very good remuneration package, she has to move too. Not only that, so does her British husband, who will now have to fly back to London three times a week for his job.
I know what you will say. She hasn't been forced to leave, she has chosen to, to keep her job. Your Australian friend chose to leave too. The end result is the same.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Is this you @Jonny

Man claims that his life is being ruined by immigration but can't explain how

 

[Bromley boy]

A Spanish friend whose company are now closing their UK office and concentrating all their staff in Spain. If she wants to remain with that company (who are leaders in their field) for whom she has worked for twenty years, risen to a senior position and has a very good remuneration package, she has to move too. Not only that, so does her British husband, who will now have to fly back to London three times a week for his job.
I know what you will say. She hasn't been forced to leave, she has chosen to, to keep her job. Your Australian friend chose to leave too. The end result is the same.

Neither has been forced to leave, but your Spanish acquaintance could have looked for another job in the U.K., should she have chosen to. My Australian friend was told that, in order to change jobs, he would have to spend a minimum period outside the U.K. for visa reasons - that didn’t fit into his family/life circumstances hence his choice to leave (he wasn’t here for the weather!).

That is a ridiculous situation. It would be far better to abandon free movement and go back to a sensible visa system which doesn’t discriminate between EU and non EU immigrants.

 

[Bromley boy]

Is this you @Jonny

Man claims that his life is being ruined by immigration but can't explain how

That’s a little childish.

 

[EM2]

Neither has been forced to leave, but your Spanish acquaintance could have looked for another job in the U.K., should she have chosen to.

And your Australian friend could have not changed jobs.
Let's call them 'constructive dismissals'.

 

[mmh]

And your Australian friend could have not changed jobs.
Let's call them 'constructive dismissals'.

Let's not, because they aren't

 

[Howardh]

Governer of the Bank of England Carney suggests there's a "high (risk)" of no-deal, and he's slated for being part of "project fear",
Business Secretary Fox says the same thing and puts figures on it, "60/40% chance of no-deal", and.......silence.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1026017003377778688

So. It is Project Fear bad that the Bank of England Gov says a No Deal is “uncomfortably high” whereas it’s fine Liam Fox says it’s 60:40, and it’s good that we prepare for No Deal, but Project Fear to publish preps that might scare public, but good to publish plans scaring EU27

 

[EM2]

Let's not, because they aren't

Well what are they then? Bromley boy's friend has effectively been told that they might as well leave unless they want to be stuck in the same job, and my friend has been told that they have to leave if they want to keep the same job.
Neither wanted to leave, but felt that they have no choice.

 

[mmh]

Governer of the Bank of England Carney suggests there's a "high (risk)" of no-deal, and he's slated for being part of "project fear",
Business Secretary Fox says the same thing and puts figures on it, "60/40% chance of no-deal", and.......silence.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1026017003377778688

Carney allows himself to be easily get project fear allegations because you could argue it's not his place to give such predictions. The Bank of England was made more independent to distance it from politics and accusations it just did whatever the Treasury told it to, not so it could make political comments itself.

He doesn't have a great track record on Brexit related predictions anyway, so I think yes, a tub of saxa is needed when it comes to this.

(Fox's 60/40 comment hasn't been ignored, I listened to people banging on about it on the radio this morning for far longer than was sensible)

 

[NSEFAN]

Carney allows himself to be easily get project fear allegations because you could argue it's not his place to give such predictions. The Bank of England was made more independent to distance it from politics and accusations it just did whatever the Treasury told it to, not so it could make political comments itself.

Politics and the finance of the country are inseparable, so it seems fair to me that the Bank should be estimating what's likely, and what to do about it.

 

[mmh]

Well what are they then? Bromley boy's friend has effectively been told that they might as well leave unless they want to be stuck in the same job, and my friend has been told that they have to leave if they want to keep the same job.
Neither wanted to leave, but felt that they have no choice.

I've got masses of sympathy with both of them, but unfortunately 25 years as a "union man" has shown me the term is very misunderstood. It doesn't cover changes to a business's organisation which you might think are unfair (even if they might be) - it's e.g. when someone is pressurised to quit by unreasonable changes to their established working pattern, changes without any consultation that might be expected, treatment of an individual differently to others, that sort of thing.

An employer closing an office / location doesn't count, I'm afraid.

It's also notoriously hard to prove, and how to get rid of people without risking it is likely on any Personnel 101 course worth its salt.

 

[Senex]

Governer of the Bank of England Carney suggests there's a "high (risk)" of no-deal, and he's slated for being part of "project fear",
Business Secretary Fox says the same thing and puts figures on it, "60/40% chance of no-deal", and.......silence.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1026017003377778688

Interesting, isn't it? It just shews how even at this late stage the Leave brigade's publicity machine is far, far better organised than anything on the Remain side. Maybe the aftermath of all that illegal spending is still with us.

 

[Senex]

Politics and the finance of the country are inseparable, so it seems fair to me that the Bank should be estimating what's likely, and what to do about it.

Brown gave the Bank of England its independence so that it could get on with looking after the money free from political pressures. If Carney sees real risks in what the politicians are doing (or not doing) then he really should say something about it if that freedom is to mean anything.