Disabled scooter user humiliated by Train Manager for using disabled space on GWR service.

[Darandio]

As with any mobile phone footage it will only commence after someone feels that they haven't been treated in the way they should be.

I'm not buying it this time. The footage from the Youtube video shows to me a guard being calm and trying to reason for the first couple 90 or so.

I'd have thrown the American off the train instead, you can all stick that in your equality pipe.

 

[bnm]

I think it's worth mentioning that Tanyalee Davis contacted GWR, and got a response from them, before the story made it to the media.

 

[bnm]

I'd have thrown the American off the train instead, you can all stick that in your equality pipe.

Any particular American?

Or did you mean the disabled Canadian lady and/or her Canadian husband?

 

[Darandio]

Any particular American?

Or did you mean the disabled Canadian lady and/or her Canadian husband?

Oh, he was Canadian? Him then, but I suspect you knew who I meant.

 

[Bromley boy]

Oh, he was Canadian? Him then, but I suspect you knew who I meant.

His accent sounded far more American than Canadian to me...

 

[bnm]

Oh, he was Canadian? Him then, but I suspect you knew who I meant.

I did. But I tend to research people's backgrounds (oh and listen to their accent) before I insult them by calling them American.

 

[Darandio]

I think it's worth mentioning that Tanyalee Davis contacted GWR, and got a response from them, before the story made it to the media.

The same TanyaLee Davis that contacted GWR on Twitter immediately after it happened on Sunday and tagged the BBC and ITV on the same Tweet? No, she wasn't trying to make the media aware at all.

 

[bnm]

His accent sounded far more American than Canadian to me...

Marty Hiebert. Born Winnipeg, Manitoba.

 

[Darandio]

I did. But I tend to research people's backgrounds (oh and listen to their accent) before I insult them by calling them American.

In all fairness her Twitter does say Canadian/American. So if they aren't sure, how the hell are we supposed to be?

 

[nottsnurse]

'Disabled space'. The clue is in the name.

It's not a, "mum with injured arm and very large pram space".

The law covers the former, not the latter. The Train Manager is responsible for a breech of the law and compounded this by berating the party who was wronged over the PA.

As it was I said "sacked, or at the least removed from customer facing duties".

If I were to have made a similar comment over the PA in A&E about a patient or relative the NMC would have taken my registration in a heartbeat.

 

[bnm]

The same TanyaLee Davis that contacted GWR on Twitter immediately after it happened on Sunday and tagged the BBC and ITV on the same Tweet? No, she wasn't trying to make the media aware at all.

That's not what I said. She had a response from GWR (and yes, it was from higher than just the Twitter team) before the media reported the story. I think GWR recognised the seriousness of the issue quite quickly. For that they should be applauded.

 

[northwichcat]

In all fairness her Twitter does say Canadian/American. So if they aren't sure, how the hell are we supposed to be?

Canadian who also has American citizenship.

 

[bnm]

In all fairness her Twitter does say Canadian/American. So if they aren't sure, how the hell are we supposed to be?

Born and raised in Canada. Obtained US citizenship in 2010. So I'll concede dual nationality. But the accents haven't been given up.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Making such an announcement is quite clearly unprofessional.
But if GWR's policy says scooters must be folded and placed in the luggage space, then that must be followed. The incident would not have happened at all if whichever staff member put the passenger in a mobility scooter in the wrong place had not done so in the first place.
The Guard always had the option of refusing to take the train rather than causing a hoo-ha.

If GWRs policy does not follow the law (as suggested earlier in this thread) then no the policy shouldn't be followed.

 

[Bromley boy]

I not sure being in his shoes is really required.

'Disabled space'. The clue is in the name.

It's not a, "mum with injured arm and very large pram space".

No, but he was clearly trying to accommodate both. Once again saying the law applies to one but not the other belies a woeful lack of understanding of the reality of the situation.

 

[bramling]

The same TanyaLee Davis that contacted GWR on Twitter immediately after it happened on Sunday and tagged the BBC and ITV on the same Tweet? No, she wasn't trying to make the media aware at all.

Without having been there and seen the whole thing from start to finish it’s impossible to judge, hence why people here are rightly showing understanding towards the position of the guard.

I’m always rather suspicious of these emotive broadcasts- for a start let the TOC deal with the complaint then by all means use the media if not happy with the response. Whenever the media, especially social media, is the first resort then in my view it at best devalues the complaint, and perhaps raises doubts about its validity. Especially as it will always be selective in terms of what we see and hear.

And, regardless of the rights or wrongs, many people watching will think wouldn’t it just be easier if such people just weren’t allowed to travel in the first place?

 

[nottsnurse]

The same TanyaLee Davis that contacted GWR on Twitter immediately after it happened on Sunday and tagged the BBC and ITV on the same Tweet? No, she wasn't trying to make the media aware at all.

And?

One of their employees had just breeched disability legislation and compounded it by berating her over the public address system to other passengers. Their employee chose to 'ramp up' the situation, should Tanyalee not seek more exposure for this, lest an internal investigation try to sweep it under the carpet?

Given her previous efforts to raise the profile of issues that disabled people face when travelling raising the profile of this incident falls right in her purview.

 

[Bromley boy]

Without having been there and seen the whole thing from start to finish it’s impossible to judge, hence why people here are rightly showing understanding towards the position of the guard.

I’m always rather suspicious of these emotive broadcasts- for a start let the TOC deal with the complaint then by all means use the media if not happy with the response. Whenever the media, especially social media, is the first resort then in my view it at best devalues the complaint, and perhaps raises doubts about its validity. Especially as it will always be selective in terms of what we see and hear.

And, regardless of the rights or wrongs, many people watching will think wouldn’t it just be easier if such people just weren’t allowed to travel in the first place?

Nail hit squarely on the head.

 

[Darandio]

And?

One of their employees had just breeched disability legislation and compounded it by berating her over the public address system to other passengers. Their employee chose to 'ramp up' the situation, should Tanyalee not seek more exposure for this, lest an internal investigation try to sweep it under the carpet?

Given her previous efforts to raise the profile of issues that disabled people face when travelling raising the profile of this incident falls right in her purview.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'd read the post i'd quoted as though there was a claim she had waited for a response from GWR before going to the media, I read that post wrong as she wanted the media involved straight away, they were just slow to take it up.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Tanyalee Davis was allowed to board (with ramp provided at Plymouth), and to occupy the disabled space, with her travelling companion sat with her. That should have been the end of the matter.

An able bodied companion is NOT immune from giving up their seat and standing near the person they are accompanying if someone needs it more than them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

His accent sounded far more American than Canadian to me...

I agree, I thought it sounded quite American too. But whatever is the case, he sounded like a self-entitled idiot.

There were ways of handling that situation that might have resulted in a better outcome (threatening legal action and swearing would never have achieved that). He failed to do so. His first failure was, according to one of the articles, failing to give up *his* seat for the mother who clearly needed it more than he did as an able bodied person. He could have stood near the lady and her scooter instead.

 

[bnm]

An able bodied companion is NOT immune from giving up their seat and standing near the person they are accompanying if someone needs it more than them.

Indeed they are not immune from doing so. Can't be compelled to do so unless the space they are occupying is required by someone with protected characteristics.

We don't know the general seating situation in this instance. What we do know is that a disabled person was moved, almost certainly unlawfully, from a designated disabled space.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed they are not immune from doing so. Can't be compelled to do so unless the space they are occupying is required by someone with protected characteristics.

No, but anyone wholly able-bodied who fails to give up a seat for someone who politely requests it who needs it more for ANY reason, even if simply elderly or with a babe in arms (let alone a babe in arms *and* an injury meaning they can't stand holding said babe in arms), frankly needs to take a serious look at themselves.

If you listen to the video he was shouting that they were there first, they had paid for it etc. False. If the train is full and standing, the seats go to those who need them most. Even if you have a reservation, assuming non-reserved and priority seats were tried first.

 

[bnm]

The babe in arms that was being held by Mum at one point in one of the videos?

I've seen mention of an arm injury here, referencing a news item, but haven't found that information as yet. At one point in one of the videos it appears that Mum helps the TM lift the pram with one hand while baby is presumably held in the other arm.

I didn't here any shouting. I heard voices that were loud enough to be heard above the vestibule noise.

I totally agree it is courteous to give up a seat to a person less able to stand. But it isn't compulsory.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I totally agree it is courteous to give up a seat to a person less able to stand. But it isn't compulsory.

It isn't legally compulsory, but it is morally compulsory in my view once it has been requested and the request is reasonable.

 

[47802]

Well from looking at all the Video's that appear to be available I would the say guard handled wrongly, He seemed to be trying to find a compromise but with hindsight shouldn't have involved moving the Disabled Lady and certainly shouldn't have made the said announcement on the PA, but obviously the Guard needs to be given a fair hearing, I certainly don't think he should be sacked but given better training for that situation.

 

[yorkie]

Certainly on the face of it, it seems totally wrong, and GWR have basically said it was the wrong call.

But I am wondering if there is more to it than first appears, and there are certainly unanswered questions about her apparently able bodied accompanying passenger.

 

[AlterEgo]

Or we could all just be reasonable about it. Which means, yes, if she was able to transfer to a seat and fold the scooter with assistance to do so. (She has use of her legs; it isn't the same situation as a wheelchair user at all - indeed I'm surprised she didn't *want* to sit in the far more comfortable environs of a Grammer IC3000 compared to a scooter seat).

I do find it a symptom of modern life that people are more interested in their rights and entitlements than in giving a little slack to allow everyone to travel.

The woman was sat in her seat, not on the mobility scooter. This is clear from her video she posted where she complains about her treatment.

The mobility scooter should have been folded.

The guard appears to have handled this badly.

Not all the facts are known or verifiable though, so we should all reserve judgment.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

The woman was sat in her seat, not on the mobility scooter.

Was there a hint in the video that she was actually in a seat reserved by someone else, possibly the mother with the child?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Marty Hiebert. Born Winnipeg, Manitoba.

Unusually impolite for a Canadian (who are almost all *incredibly* polite). I think one can be forgiven for the error.