Liverpool Lime St remodelling

[B&I]

Apart from reasons highlighted above, turning trains at Huyton as well as having through trains is slightly impractical.

You’d have to turn the TPE back in Platform 2, which is also used by Wigan-Liverpool services, twice an hour. Doable, yes, if the train is in and out but what pathing along the Chat Moss and then at Victoria, if you running it at a different time?

So instead you’d have to shunt the unit behind the signal at Huyton Junction and into Platform 4, again working around 2tph to Wigan, any late running and you’re asking for trouble.

Not only that, you have to think of traincrew breaks, you’d have to taxi traincrew Huyton to Lime Street, which is booked to take 30 mins. You can’t have PNB’s at Huyton and you can’t leave units mainline at Huyton with no traincrew, you have to a member of traincrew with the unit at all times, even with the units fully berthed/disposed, again think of traincrew relief issues/PNB’s related to this.

All of those sound eminently resolvable to me

 

[B&I]

Remain unconvinced then. You have no idea of the practicalities involved.

I have just read through a list of the practicalities, as set out by Loop & Link, and all of them seem pretty easily overcome

 

[driver_m]

I have just read through a list of the practicalities, as set out by Loop & Link, and all of them seem pretty easily overcome

They aren't. For a start, there's no messing facilities at Huyton, so you'd have to get transport laid on to take them somewhere, where there is facilities. Or you just stay at Manchester. Then you add in the walking times, the transport times to/from, and that's assuming everything runs to time. 6 moves an hour on a single track is also pretty busy, so to add at least another 4 is asking for trouble especially with only two shortened platforms to play with.

 

[driver_m]

If I can can give you one more example of our moves at LSP. The use of Euston drivers has been kept to a bare minimum, as there's no proper messing facilities there. Nearest ones are Runcorn or Crewe, so most of the work is being undertaken by Liverpool drivers, and a number of the longer jobs are near the time limits .

 

[B&I]

If I can can give you one more example of our moves at LSP. The use of Euston drivers has been kept to a bare minimum, as there's no proper messing facilities there. Nearest ones are Runcorn or Crewe, so most of the work is being undertaken by Liverpool drivers, and a number of the longer jobs are near the time limits .

So in other words, they've overcome the problems at South Parkway, but nobody could be bothered at Huyton

 

[driver_m]

So in other words, they've overcome the problems at South Parkway, but nobody could be bothered at Huyton

Unless you can magic up a messroom for TPE at Huyton or somewhere like NLW or Lea Green then it's not a case of can't be bothered at all. I'd be the first to criticise for a lack of effort but it's a monumental waste of money to get a bit further down the line and still need a bus in two weeks time anyway.. At least with LSP the pax can carry on, on a train. Plus, until the admittedly remote possibility of a Wapping link/ Central Rebuild, then there aren't going to be any more blocks like this for years round Liverpool. Every station has been refurbed, all track redone, Sandhills PSB is still relatively modern and not likely to be altered for years. So we should have a settled railway again soon.

 

[edwin_m]

A web search for "mobile welfare facilities" produces a string of results for companies that will hire out cabins or trailers with the necessary facilities.

 

[B&I]

Unless you can magic up a messroom for TPE at Huyton or somewhere like NLW or Lea Green then it's not a case of can't be bothered at all. I'd be the first to criticise for a lack of effort but it's a monumental waste of money to get a bit further down the line and still need a bus in two weeks time anyway.. At least with LSP the pax can carry on, on a train. Plus, until the admittedly remote possibility of a Wapping link/ Central Rebuild, then there aren't going to be any more blocks like this for years round Liverpool. Every station has been refurbed, all track redone, Sandhills PSB is still relatively modern and not likely to be altered for years. So we should have a settled railway again soon.

And we could have had a much less unsettled onw for 2 months, but sure, it's only passengers and they only live in Liverpool, so drastically reducing their services ro Manchester because no-one at TPE wanted to pay for a mobile welfare facility can't really have mattered

 

[driver_m]

Ok yes, Liverpool has been treated abominably, its people have been messed about left right and centre, as have the people who work there travelling in.

Tell you what, I'd hate for you to live somewhere like the Conwy valley or Pwllheli, or Windermere. Where they really do get messed about when something has gone wrong. There's no talking to you, despite 3 of us trying to explain why we don't agree with you. So I'll leave it here.

 

[LowLevel]

EMT provided the mess rooms at South Parkway - this time it is a rather grand double deck affair with fitted television!

We have a few places on the network where we abandon units on the mainline - the best example I can think of is Spalding where the driver and guard are both booked a break and usually wander off into town for dinner - phonecalls from the signaller on approach begging you to stick the dogbox somewhere different to normal first to accommodate freight are pretty common nowadays!

We just lock up and disable the train.

Otherwise at South Parkway the EMT crew breaks are managed by the driver being relieved on arrival by the previous hour's driver. They take the train DOO to Edge Hill reception and then come back when convenient. In the mean time the guard has their break and gets back on when the unit returns and the driver waits an hour to do the shunt with the next arrival then drives it back to Nottingham.

Whether Huyton has the facilities to permit all this I doubt - I only ever pass through there at a rate of knots on a diversion or ECS.

We are quite bitter about being left to provide the service between Liverpool and Manchester though with Northern's unreliability and our own rolling stock issues, with crush loaded trains being as standard and strike days being utterly intolerable.

 

[driver_m]

No there's no room at all at Huyton. All been took up by the 4 tracking and even before that the lineside was tightly bound.

Where are you going to have your PNB at Lime St now that the 'bubble' has gone? Are you sharing with one of us lot or getting a dedicated place of your own again? Surprised you dont use ours in Rail House seeing as we've common owners.

 

[LowLevel]

No there's no room at all at Huyton. All been took up by the 4 tracking and even before that the lineside was tightly bound.

Where are you going to have your PNB at Lime St now that the 'bubble' has gone? Are you.shating.woth one of us lot or getting a dedicated place of your own again? Surprised you dont use ours in Rail House seeing as we've common owners.

The Northern mess room has always been our official mess room going back presumably to Regional Railways. In practice we used to bunk up with the cleaners in the bubble on platform 8 as you say and it now varies between using the cleaner's new accommodation above the gateline or the Northern mess room by platform 1 depending on how well you get along with the cleaners.

 

[driver_m]

The Northern mess room has always been our official mess room going back presumably to Regional Railways. In practice we used to bunk up with the cleaners in the bubble on platform 8 as you say and it now varies between using the cleaner's new accommodation above the gateline or the Northern mess room by platform 1 depending on how well you get along with the cleaners.

The cleaners are sound who work at Lime St as is pretty much everyone else at Lime St. A pity we dont all have a common user mess room as there's a camararerie at Lime St that you don't really get at many other places.

 

[fowler9]

Do think Parkway has a heck of a lot more space for temporary facilities and rail replacement buses than Huyton. I think the best has been made of a difficult situation. I just hope once Lime Street and the surrounding area reopens that the Northern service doesn't go back to the awful state it was in before. The rail replacement buses have been incredibly reliable.

 

[B&I]

Ok yes, Liverpool has been treated abominably, its people have been messed about left right and centre, as have the people who work there travelling in.

Tell you what, I'd hate for you to live somewhere like the Conwy valley or Pwllheli, or Windermere. Where they really do get messed about when something has gone wrong. There's no talking to you, despite 3 of us trying to explain why we don't agree with you. So I'll leave it here.

You really don't like being questionned or

Ok yes, Liverpool has been treated abominably, its people have been messed about left right and centre, as have the people who work there travelling in.

Tell you what, I'd hate for you to live somewhere like the Conwy valley or Pwllheli, or Windermere. Where they really do get messed about when something has gone wrong. There's no talking to you, despite 3 of us trying to explain why we don't agree with you. So I'll leave it here.

Ok yes, Liverpool has been treated abominably, its people have been messed about left right and centre, as have the people who work there travelling in.

Tell you what, I'd hate for you to live somewhere like the Conwy valley or Pwllheli, or Windermere. Where they really do get messed about when something has gone wrong. There's no talking to you, despite 3 of us trying to explain why we don't agree with you. So I'll leave it here.

As you are now comparing one of the country's largest cities to small villages in Wales, I think you're best leaving it there.

 

[bb21]

Good! we have consensus.

I therefore expect no further words from either of you on this very same issue. Line drawn, and move on.

All been sufficiently explained where you are both coming from from what I can see. People can all take onboard whatever they want and form their own opinions.

 

[driver_m]

Cool. Now for some actual info. Gantries have now gone in at West Allerton for the new signalling and plenty of bases and AWS magnets installed at Speke and all points towards Edge Hill. Looks like some new OLE structures are going up near Halewood too, whether this is for a new neutral, AT transformer or to get rid of the remnants of the last remaining auxillary OLE I don't know.

 

[nw-sparks]

Plus, until the admittedly remote possibility of a Wapping link/ Central Rebuild, then there aren't going to be any more blocks like this for years round Liverpool. Every station has been refurbed, all track redone, Sandhills PSB is still relatively modern and not likely to be altered for years. So we should have a settled railway again soon.

What about Edge Hill resignalling?

 

[driver_m]

Looking at plans, it appears to be mostly like for like, as at Speke and Allerton, and to an extent, Runcorn- Weaver. It shouldn't be as bad as the Lime St blockades. Hearing rumours of an xmas switch out, so maybe an Xmas/weekend block maybe, as has happened elsewhere?

 

[fowler9]

Cool. Now for some actual info. Gantries have now gone in at West Allerton for the new signalling and plenty of bases and AWS magnets installed at Speke and all points towards Edge Hill. Looks like some new OLE structures are going up near Halewood too, whether this is for a new neutral, AT transformer or to get rid of the remnants of the last remaining auxillary OLE I don't know.

Ooh, where are the gantries? The station is at the end of my road, before the closure I saw a lot of land cleared by platform 4.

 

[driver_m]

Ooh, where are the gantries? The station is at the end of my road, before the closure I saw a lot of land cleared by platform 4.

There's one for the signals which put you into LSP .It hasn't got anything on yet as it will block the current Up Slow signal. However the one protecting West Allerton which will be for the Dn Fast has housing attached .It is in advance of the current signals. They're single signal brackets like the big hefty one at Speke Jn. and others on the WCML around Milton Keynes .

 

[HUY2ROB]

The rail replacement buses have been incredibly reliable.

Does anybody know why the buses go such a long way round between Wavertree and Edge Hill? It's almost a mile further than the routes suggested by google maps. (2.2 miles vs 1.3 miles). Are there rules about where the buses stop ?

 

[fowler9]

Does anybody know why the buses go such a long way round between Wavertree and Edge Hill? It's almost a mile further than the routes suggested by google maps. (2.2 miles vs 1.3 miles). Are there rules about where the buses stop ?

The ones from Parkway to Lime Street? I'm struggling to think of a significant, sensible alternative if calling at both Mossley Hill and Edge Hill.

 

[HUY2ROB]

Sorry I should have said "Wavertree Technology Park".I meant the Huyton to Lime Street buses which go via Smithdown Road.

 

[fowler9]

Sorry I should have said "Wavertree Technology Park".I meant the Huyton to Lime Street buses which go via Smithdown Road.

Ah sorry mate, I didn't realise they still ran since trains are leaving Lime street to Huyton. If I had to guess it would be so all the busses from Edge Hill to Lime Street and also heading out of town leave from the same side of the road outside Edge Hill. Also Edge Hill to Lime Street heading the other way would add some distance. Plus Picton Road gets even more crowded than Smithdown Road as it is slightly narrower, pretty much one lane each way instead of two. I could be wrong.

 

[louis97]

What about Edge Hill resignalling?

Edge Hill isn't getting resignalled, it is getting re-controlled as part of the Lime Street closure.

 

[nw-sparks]

Edge Hill isn't getting resignalled, it is getting re-controlled as part of the Lime Street closure.

I'm fairly sure Edge Hill has been postponed, although I can't find a reference at the moment so I could be mis-remembering?

 

[6Gman]

Not ideal today. Track circuit failure at Sandhills stopped the job between Sth Parkway and central Liverpool.

Around 1530 Platform 5 was packed, with people being held in a queue on the concourse.

Personally I just gave up and headed for Crewe on a very lightly-loaded Desiro.

 

[The_Engineer]

Another nice video of progress on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/networkrail/status/1017725325919191041

Old platforms 1&2 close tonight. No trains until 30th July!

 

[Class 170101]

A web search for "mobile welfare facilities" produces a string of results for companies that will hire out cabins or trailers with the necessary facilities.

No guarantee that the unions will accept them.