DarloRich
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And St Ives?
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Idea for junction change on St Ives Branch
- Thread starter DenmarkRail
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And St Ives?
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HSTEd
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Well you could extend a platform at St Erth if you used the OOU bay, would mean that the extra carriages would have to be driven independently to St Ives and couple there as they would not be able to enter or leave the branch as a single formation.
John Luxton
Established Member
Just to put it on record the comments concerning St Erth Interchange - the original plan was to also build a new heliport next to the station and enhanced parking. This was to replace the heliport at Penzance .
Sadly the 'nimbys' scuppered the plans, the helicopter service ceased and the heliport replaced by yet another Supermarket!
Progress?
John
John
Sadly the 'nimbys' scuppered the plans, the helicopter service ceased and the heliport replaced by yet another Supermarket!
Progress?
John
John
The OPs suggestion shows a distinct lack of understanding of how the branch works. It shuttles back and forth all day. There isn’t the paths to allow trains from elsewhere. There isn’t the capacity to gamble on late running trains from the main line, even 1-2 minutes late would destroy the line times all day. The unit working the line comes from Long Rock and conveniently the points face that way!
DenmarkRail
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At no point do I suggest that this should happen NOW. I suggested that this shouldve happened from day 1. I am aware of the lines workings, but with SIGNIFICANT and UNREALISTIC investment, it could be worked to allow ML trains. I NEVER suggest that we should go ahead and build this now.
It is an amazing sainsburys though... I also can't imagine the St Erth residents wanting a heliport.
Or with the SIGNIFICANT and UNREALISTIC investment which I suggest above, a complete new platform could be built.
If there wasn't a junction there, it's possible St Erth might not have gained a main line station at all. It's not exactly a big place and Hayle is very close.
An east facing 200m radius chord might be possible technically. It could allow the current station at St Erth to close or be downgraded to 'local status', with St Ives trains diverted to terminate at Hayle in a new bay platform constructed along the back face of the up platform or on the old wharf branch alignment. Hayle would thus become the branch interchange, simplifying stopping patterns in the area and encouraging more frequent calls there by longer distance trains, instead of at St Erth. In the evening in particular the down service is atrocious today, with no calls at Hayle for nearly three hours while a series of five trains pass and call at St Erth. Oddly, the down beds stop at Hayle while the up working doesn't! A new platform could be built on the branch somewhere near St Erth to provide the St Ives park and ride function.
An east facing 200m radius chord might be possible technically. It could allow the current station at St Erth to close or be downgraded to 'local status', with St Ives trains diverted to terminate at Hayle in a new bay platform constructed along the back face of the up platform or on the old wharf branch alignment. Hayle would thus become the branch interchange, simplifying stopping patterns in the area and encouraging more frequent calls there by longer distance trains, instead of at St Erth. In the evening in particular the down service is atrocious today, with no calls at Hayle for nearly three hours while a series of five trains pass and call at St Erth. Oddly, the down beds stop at Hayle while the up working doesn't! A new platform could be built on the branch somewhere near St Erth to provide the St Ives park and ride function.
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Am I missing something about why this would be a problem? Surely the mainline platform is long enough?
DenmarkRail
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Extending the platform is not possible, as it would have to push over the junction onto the mainline...
DenmarkRail
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Alot of the infrastructure could easily be put into Hayle... Fairly cost light.
bramling
Veteran Member
Are ther any plans to close Lelant Saltings station when the new car park opens, or is it an extra facility?
Have to say I dislike the interchange name, could apply it many many stations which would make it rather pointless.
Which was the point of reinstating the other bay platform as it could be longer simply by way of its location.
I still don't see what that has to do with not being able to bring a 6 car 150 formation onto the branch in one go?
A bay platform, a footbridge (must be accessible as new build) and trailing crossover on top of the works at St Erth.
4 mins or so each way (and a stop for the P&R) added PLUS having to timetable the service along the main line and with two conflicting moves on every down branch train. So you need two trains to run a half hourly shuttle instead of one.
Or you could go for singling the main line to keep the branch separate...
Cost light?
HSTEd
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Oh sorry, I forgot the presence of the crossover to access the mainline platforms from the branch.
I had it in my head that the only connection onto the mainline was eastbound for some reason.
DenmarkRail
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A) Hayle station wouldn’t need a foot bridge for the platform? The current situation would continue to work fine, providing the footpath and back racks were moved slightly to allow the track bed to be built.
B) on top of the works at st erth... I suggested that this should’ve been done from day 1, not now. Therefore unless they were building an interchange at st erth back in the 1800s, there wouldn’t be an extra cost there.
C) I also never suggested that the branch line should be moved away from St Erth. I suggested a junction should be built, to allow for mainline trains to access the branch (albeit, infrastructure improvements needed) without needing to reverse at St Erth.
D) This is to someone else’s post about the curve on my diagram -> My diagram was a quick draw up. For a more accurate representation, see MarkyT’s post.
E) I suggest that the cost light part would be rebuilding Hayle station to have the bay platform... Worth noting Hayle has had a bay in the past. It could easily be tagged onto the side of platform 2, with little changes being made, e.g moving the platform 2 entrance to the ‘new’ platform 3 bay.
Warwick
Member
So let me get this right. Peoples are suggesting closing a station that's just in the process of having an enormous amount of car parking put there at enormous expense for a park and ride scheme as well as having a purpose built platform arrangement for the St. Ives branch. Then they want to spend more money updating the station at Hayle. Hayle has limited car parking space with little chance of it being enlarged as there's no room. The beauty of St. Erth as a park and ride is that it's right on the A30 whereas Hayle isn't. Hayle railway station is a tortuous drive through streets to get to (it must be remembered that Hayle and St. Erth don't just have their eponymous villages as a catchment area) which will discourage people from driving there (remind me why the Hayle by-pass was built) and also has no facilities whereas St. Erth has a lovely little tea room as well as a bus stop on the A30 just outside if all else fails.
The remark about more trains stopping at St. Erth than Hayle is easily explained by the fact that St. Erth is the connecting station for St. Ives. If it were the other way around people would then complain that more trains are stopping at Hayle.
DenmarkRail
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at no point has anyone here suggested moving the branch line, just building a new junction facing London, as well as facing Penzance.
I would argue that having two station so close to each other is a problem because there's a natural desire to avoid expresses stopping at both due to the effect on journey time. Hayle is a fairly well sited town centre station while St Erth is an edge town parkway with a few houses nearby. Hayle, which has great potential, is hobbled by a poor train services as many longer distance trains eschew it in favour of St Erth, as you say because it is the St Ives junction. Move the branch interchange to Hayle and the fast trains can all stop there while also serving the town. The car parking expansion at St Erth need not go to waste as the regular branch shuttle trains diverted to Hayle could still call at a new through platform built in the vicinity on the new chord for the St Ives P&R function. I would remove the existing junction towards Penzance, and the main line platforms at St Erth might close entirely or be retained just for local stopping train calls. The branch diverted to Hayle would also provide a more useful facility for locals travelling between there and St Ives. With an interchange at St Erth and few calls at Hayle today, this journey is inconvenient by train although there is a frequent bus service, although it finishes fairly early in the evening.
DenmarkRail
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So since everyone thought I was suggesting we should build this now, I might as well show you how I would plan this if I was doing this now... Not perfect, but here you go
Warwick
Member
The extra ten/twelve minutes running to, changing ends and running back from Hayle would also upset the timings of the single train on the branch necessitating two trains for the operation. St. Erth is the more practical stations for the reasons that I've stated .
Closeness to a main road for a greater and easier catchment area. Hayle is too awkward a place to drive to.
Better - much better - parking facilities at St. Erth.
Easier for that dreaded rail replacement bus to get in and out of St Erth than Hayle.
Closeness to a main road for a greater and easier catchment area. Hayle is too awkward a place to drive to.
Better - much better - parking facilities at St. Erth.
Easier for that dreaded rail replacement bus to get in and out of St Erth than Hayle.
The operational argument is very persuasive. A 30 minute interval service is currently possible with just one train. Very economic. Access to Hayle by road is hardly difficult though, straight in along the causeway from the A30 roundabout, and parking could be improved. Something really needs to be done about Hayle's atrocious train service which has some huge gaps. It's the only station in the far west of the county that gets such a rubbish service. Long distance trains all typically call at Redruth, Camborne and St Erth but only a few also call at Hayle. As once you're this far west long distance trains are providing much of the local service, this leaves Hayle with the short straw, not because it's an insignificant stop or because its station is poorly sited (it's extremely well sited in fact) but simply because it's too close to the next station which happens to be the junction for St Ives. Even many local trains from Bristol or Exeter miss out Hayle especially in that infamous three hour gap in the evening. If the branch had been built from Hayle in the first place, I would not have thought a station at St Erth would have survived the Beeching era. Maybe it would not even have been built.
As a former local myself, I couldn't agree more. The causeway route is horrible in the summer - and the daft new one-way section doesn't help. Plus Hayle has a very long, ribbon-like town "centre" and is frequented by buses in any case.
I've often said they should rebuild Marazion and get some extra rolling stock. to run a half-hourly Penzance - Marazion - St Erth - St Ives service, passing at St Erth. If the 2tph Cornish Main Line services were to leave Penzance at xx:00 and xx:30, perhaps these could fit in at xx:15 and xx:45? Could be a nice 'coast to coast beach shuttle' for the Emmets, no?
OK, I'll put the crayons away...
DenmarkRail
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Marazoin Station's platform looked in a good enough state for that when I saw it last week.
Warwick
Member
Marazion is located precisely where no-one wants to be. That's why the good Doctor had it closed.
Adding yet another 2 trains an hour over the single line approaching Penzance doesn't seem like a good idea for reliability. Better to ensure the additional hourly local service on the main line always calls at Hayle, all day. With a more respectable local service, calls by some of the longer distance trains might be withdrawn. A distinctly local service alternating with the fasts could also call at Marazion and any new stations built en route to Truro. Carn Brea for instance.
bramling
Veteran Member
Is it that badly sited? I’d certainly have quite happily used it to visit St Michael’s Mount by train from St Ives earlier this year - the walk is only about 15 minutes, and no doubt a taxi company could provide a service for people who won’t or can’t walk.
[CRAYON]
Build a new station on the west bank of the Hayle River near the mouth of the river, build a bridge across to the east bank to the car park by the beach. This would give a shorter walk to the beach (it would at least be visible from the train so wouldn't be such a perceived long way from the current stations), making rail travel to Hayle much more attractive. [/CRAYON]
Build a new station on the west bank of the Hayle River near the mouth of the river, build a bridge across to the east bank to the car park by the beach. This would give a shorter walk to the beach (it would at least be visible from the train so wouldn't be such a perceived long way from the current stations), making rail travel to Hayle much more attractive. [/CRAYON]
The crowds on Long Rock Beach on a hot summer's day would beg to differ. Just ask the good folk at Jordan's Cafe.
(And on a winter's day with a sou'westerly blowing, GWR could offer deals for kitesurfers and deliver them direct to the beach, ferrying them back to whence they came on the Night Riviera!)
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