Classic Traction which never aged

[delt1c]

For me the following classes have never aged, 20, 35, 47 (including 57), 50 , 55 ,56, 73 , 87 and 92. Others which are very successeful but look very dated, 31, 37, 58 , 60,90 and 91

 

[Failed Unit]

I think the current livery does nothing for the 91s

The same with HST. Some liveries make the train look dated.

 

[pdeaves]

I suppose all stock that had a very short life and was cut up before any further technological advances happened would not have 'aged'!

I respectfully disagree with your class 20 on the basis that it was aged when brand new, using steam loco styling. Many miniature railways pretend to have steam by using diesel (or petrol) with a 'steam look' body on top. The 20 was a full size equivalent!

 

[randyrippley]

class 60 and class 92 use the same body, so I don't understand why you view them differently.
As for the others, 35/47/56/57 all came from the same basic studio design based on a brief from the BR Design Bureau. So did Lion & Falcon.
Class 50 came from an alternative interpretation of the same bureau briefing, while the class 81-87 were the result of another Design Bureau instruction.
The bad designs (and I include 20 in that) were the ones built without input from the bureau - either before it was formed, or after it was shut down

 

[Cowley]

I know that this is about locomotives, but I think the 442 units have aged (looks wise) very well.
As far as locomotives go I think class 47s still look good, partly due to them having a friendly looking face and also because of the lack of bodyside grilles - meaning that many different liveries including modern ones look decent on them.

 

[Busaholic]

I think the Great Western railcars have a classic, ageless feel to them, probably helped by the livery.

 

[Bevan Price]

I suppose all stock that had a very short life and was cut up before any further technological advances happened would not have 'aged'!

I respectfully disagree with your class 20 on the basis that it was aged when brand new, using steam loco styling. Many miniature railways pretend to have steam by using diesel (or petrol) with a 'steam look' body on top. The 20 was a full size equivalent!

I note your point about Class 20, but would also comment that having one cab instead of two must have reduced the construction costs ?

But to me, it is the Class 03 & 04 shunters that look even more like steam-based designs- they even have a "chimney" at one end.

 

[theageofthetra]

I think the MK2 DVT's like used on the NR monitoring train still look good. Such a shame the SR didn't build EMU's based on them.

 

[delt1c]

class 60 and class 92 use the same body, so I don't understand why you view them differently.
As for the others, 35/47/56/57 all came from the same basic studio design based on a brief from the BR Design Bureau. So did Lion & Falcon.
Class 50 came from an alternative interpretation of the same bureau briefing, while the class 81-87 were the result of another Design Bureau instruction.
The bad designs (and I include 20 in that) were the ones built without input from the bureau - either before it was formed, or after it was shut down

60 looks more angular, where as 92 is more rounded

 

[pdeaves]

60 looks more angular, where as 92 is more rounded

Yes, rather than 'using the same body', the 92 is a development on the 60.

 

[bramling]

For me the following classes have never aged, 20, 35, 47 (including 57), 50 , 55 ,56, 73 , 87 and 92. Others which are very successeful but look very dated, 31, 37, 58 , 60,90 and 91

I'd say the Networker hasn't really dated, apart from perhaps the front end which has a rather 1990s look to it (especially when they had the original destination displays).

 

[hexagon789]

I would say 47s, 55s, HSTs, 87s. The IC225s still look quite modern after nearly 30 years.

 

[Greetlander]

I thought the Grand Central livery refreshed the look of the HST. I’ve also been a lifelong fan of the 47 in whatever livery.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I would say 47s, 55s, HSTs, 87s. The IC225s still look quite modern after nearly 30 years.

Regarding the 47, it really is amazing the difference a livery can make. In IC Swallow or the old VT red they don't look so dated at all, but see one back in their original BR two tone green with small yellow panels and they really do look of their time, as much as I appreciate that livery on them. As far as the 60s are concerned, what dates them more than anything (I think) is the original lamp clusters, the front end would be transformed with a more modern setup similar to the later examples of class 66s, although I do accept the angular appearance points made above by delt1c.

 

[hexagon789]

Regarding the 47, it really is amazing the difference a livery can make. In IC Swallow or the old VT red they don't look so dated at all, but see one back in their original BR two tone green with small yellow panels and they really do look of their time, as much as I appreciate that livery on them. As far as the 60s are concerned, what dates them more than anything (I think) is the original lamp clusters, the front end would be transformed with a more modern setup similar to the later examples of class 66s, although I do accept the angular appearance points made above by delt1c.

The 47s really do suit practically any livery, I still liked them best in ScotRail Express (as my previous avatar will attest!).

 

[Ash Bridge]

The 47s really do suit practically any livery, I still liked them best in ScotRail Express (as my previous avatar will attest!).

Yes they did look nice in the Scotrail colours too, I remember well photographing them at Waverley during 1989, the next time I went (1992 I think) they'd sadly been replaced by the new 158s

 

[hexagon789]

Yes they did look nice in the Scotrail colours too, I remember well photographing them at Waverley during 1989, the next time I went (1992 I think) they'd sadly been replaced by the new 158s

Those 158s have a lot to answer for!

 

[birchesgreen]

I respectfully disagree with your class 20 on the basis that it was aged when brand new, using steam loco styling. Many miniature railways pretend to have steam by using diesel (or petrol) with a 'steam look' body on top. The 20 was a full size equivalent!

I've never really thought of the Class 20 aping steam design, i always thought it copied US style locomotives but you may have a point.

 

[randyrippley]

the class 20 is simply a grown up version of the prewar EE prototype shunters, with bogies and EE traction motors rather than a driveshaft.
Similarity to USA designs is simply a case of a similar problem giving a similar solution.
If you look at the export derivatives of the class 20 you'll see some were even more American in style, with a mid-cab design.

However the EE "nosed" designs I've read somewhere were actually subject to a design licence - presumably from GE

 

[Taunton]

I've never really thought of the Class 20 aping steam design, i always thought it copied US style locomotives

Quite different. US mainline (as opposed to yard switching) locomotives never had the cab at the end, after the streamliners the ubiquitous Road Switchers from various manufacturers all had the cab at about the 75% mark, with a Long Hood and a Short Hood. US train crews will not accept an end cab, UK style, with good reason when you look at the vast number of level crossing collisions where the Hood forward of the cab takes the brunt of any damage.

When the Road Switcher loco first came out, both Hoods were full height and the cab controls were arranged to run Long Hood Forward, with as much in front of the crew as a steam locomotive. Slowly, various railways opted to switch round to be Short Hood Forward, although some, particularly the Southern and the Norfolk & Western, never changed their policy, and always even on more modern units ran them Long Hood Forward. Then locos started to have the Short Hood reduced in height to give better visibility from the cab, although it was still mostly there. The Short Hood is not empty, it often contains the crew toilet and used to have the steam heat boiler. It also contains some very heavyweight structural girders as collision protection; even the nose of the old streamliners had this.

Current generation locos have full width Short Hoods, first pioneered by Canadian National, but still have the protection in front of the cab.

 

[randyrippley]

this is the EE LD 844 C Portugese derivative of the class 20, 5'3" gauge, 1350bhp, hood design
taken from http://glostransporthistory.visit-gloucestershire.co.uk/EEExport.htm
EE design, the first few were built here, the rest in Portugal

I would suggest the end-cab of the 20 was due to the restricted UK loading gauge compared with the higher limit in Portugal

 

[Cowley]

this is the EE LD 844 C Portugese derivative of the class 20, 5'3" gauge, 1350bhp, hood design
taken from http://glostransporthistory.visit-gloucestershire.co.uk/EEExport.htm
EE design, the first few were built here, the rest in Portugal

I would suggest the end-cab of the 20 was due to the restricted UK loading gauge compared with the higher limit in Portugal

I saw (and heard) a couple of those in action in the 1990s, marvellous little engines.
Saw a couple of 1800s (Portuguese 50s) too around Lisbon/Setubal.
It was noticeable with both types how generous the loading gauge was.

 

[randyrippley]

another variant on the class 20 theme.........this time an slightly earlier metre gauge export for Agentina with a class 20 body mated to a class 40 cab
again from http://glostransporthistory.visit-gloucestershire.co.uk/EEExport.htm
This predates both 20 and 40 production, so an important point in EE design history

 

[satisnek]

I think you'll find that all of these loco classes look 'dated' if you compare them to a Class 68. But what looks 'dated' and what looks 'best' can be one of the same for some of us...

 

[birchesgreen]

Quite different. US mainline (as opposed to yard switching) locomotives never had the cab at the end, after the streamliners the ubiquitous Road Switchers from various manufacturers all had the cab at about the 75% mark, with a Long Hood and a Short Hood. US train crews will not accept an end cab, UK style, with good reason when you look at the vast number of level crossing collisions where the Hood forward of the cab takes the brunt of any damage.

Though the Class 20's rival Type 1s (15 and 16 - and the earlier prototype Type A loco) did have a cab not at the end, i assumed the 20 was just an evolution of this.

 

[43096]

US train crews will not accept an end cab, UK style

That might be the case for the freight railroads, but it isn’t the case for Amtrak (and other passenger operators): see AEM-7, P42 and ACS64 types for a start.

 

[Bromley boy]

The 373s are definitely a good example of traction that hasn’t aged a day in nearly three decades.

They are very much “classic” traction in the sense that they were built and commenced operations during BR’s final few years of existence. They date from the same late 80s/early 90s era as 91s, 319s, 465s and let’s face it they look like some kind of futuristic space craft compared to all of these.

Based purely on their looks, I still find it amazing that some of them are being scrapped (I know all the arguments underpinning why have been discussed at length on here).

 

[Bromley boy]

I'd say the Networker hasn't really dated, apart from perhaps the front end which has a rather 1990s look to it (especially when they had the original destination displays).

Agreed.

They certainly don’t look “old” compared to 319s, even though their production was only a couple of years or so apart.

 

[Taunton]

another variant on the class 20 theme.........this time an slightly earlier metre gauge export for Agentina with a class 20 body mated to a class 40 cab
This predates both 20 and 40 production, so an important point in EE design history

That was the standard EE cab, used on a range of locos sold mostly to "Colonial" countries. Initially a streamlined type with full width main body, some were later done like this, just the cab full width and with a road switcher body - EE also made a significant number of full Roadswitchers as well. The original body type meant no rearward view was possible from the cab, the combination shown allowed this through small rear-facing windows.

If you want to see the upside of a nose, which only EE seemed to perpetuate, here's their DP2 showing, alas, its advantage for the crew in the cab - who walked away from this.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=DP2+accident+picture&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=1mdGRe0ur4LTjM%3A%2CBRr1N5DaSSYo0M%2C_&usg=__CeGs2H1cyQzWXM3nCWMpMVe9g0Q=&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjNpoiHgZ7aAhUkL8AKHeFmCwsQ9QEIKTAA#imgrc=1mdGRe0ur4LTjM:

 

[randyrippley]

......... a nose, which only EE seemed to perpetuate, ..........

The flat nose designs of the 1960s were mandated by the Design Panel. Either the class 37 design was finalised much earlier in the design process than the other 1960 designs before the panel could intercede, or someone decided economy of scale in sharing doors and other bits with the class 40 was more important than styling. The Design Panel were able to force the switch from the Deltic body of DP2 to the class 50 flat front