Great Northern and Thameslink May 18 service changes

[Failed Unit]

And noticeably rammed and full standing in many coaches by Finsbury Park.

It wasn't like that yesterday!

Where has the 365 on this service yesterday gone?

I do hope to the 07.20 Letchworth-KGX service??

What service is 2Y85?

 

[notverydeep]

What service is 2Y85?

The 08:13 Welwyn Garden City - King's Cross, normally 2 x 365...

 

[notverydeep]

When was the last slammer on great northern? The 1980s

Presumably the class 312s were the last slam door EMUs, before they moved to the Great Eastern route. Wikipedia is no more specific than the late 1980s. However, I think that HSTs continued to be used on a few peak Peterborough services into the 1990s, including serving Huntingdon. These are trains which would now be considered GN and their present day equivalents are EMU operated.

On the subject of poor dwell times, the original PEP unit prototypes had three pairs of doors per car, but were reduced to two pairs to cut costs. Sadly it took the industry until the point where the Crossrail class 345 trains were ordered to recognise that this makes for poor dwell times and longer peak journey times...

Sorry, I realise I have ended up double posting. I would combine them if I new how after pressing the 'post' button.

 

[jon0844]

The services becoming 8 car 700s will be:

2Y83 - WGC 0703 to KGX 0738 (I wonder if this, and the others from WGC, will be set up to say it is declassified both ends?)
2R35 - LET 0836 to KGX 0929
2Y91 - WGC 1639 to KGX 1706
1T02 - KGX 1714 to ELY 1823
1T17 - ELY 1858 to KGX 2005
1P78 - KGX 2022 to PBO 2139

1R45 - RYS 0713 to KGX 0805
2T22 - KGX 1605 to CMB 1736
2T61 - CMB 1747 to KGX 1920
2R38 - KGX 1934 to LET 2023
2Y67 - WGC 2334 to KGX 0019
2P58 - KGX 0034 to PBO 0212

2P91 - PBO 0547 to KGX 0712
1P42 - KGX 0722 to PBO 0839
1P53 - PBO 0847 to KGX 1006
1T14 - KGX 1014 to ELY 1121
1T29 - ELY 1158 to KGX 1308
1P54 - KGX 1322 to PBO 1439
1P67 - PBO 1447 to KGX 1604
1P60 - KGX 1622 to HUN 1732
1P73 - HUN 1803 to KGX 1903
1T10 - KGX 1914 to ELY 2025
1T25 - ELY 2059 to KGX 2205
2R50 - KGX 2234 to RYS 2334

This releases 6x365s.

 

[Steveo77]

just had a look at the new Thameslink timetable (I travel on the dreaded Wimbledon loop )
in the consultations I think I saw that they were planning on running 4 tph during peak times on the Wimbledon - Sutton section.
this now appears to have been dropped and so the half hourly service will continue...I wouldn't mind but the timetable has totally changed and so all trains to and from Sutton are about 10 minutes later than they are now. Not happy I guess that is it as far as the Wimbledon loop is concerned. 2 tph for the forseeable future ?

also note that the off peak London Victoria to Sutton fast trains are now fast to Carshalton instead. might be something to do with the fact that the Sutton and Cheam MP gets off at Carshalton station...

 

[ctrh136]

just had a look at the new Thameslink timetable (I travel on the dreaded Wimbledon loop )
in the consultations I think I saw that they were planning on running 4 tph during peak times on the Wimbledon - Sutton section.
this now appears to have been dropped and so the half hourly service will continue...I wouldn't mind but the timetable has totally changed and so all trains to and from Sutton are about 10 minutes later than they are now. Not happy I guess that is it as far as the Wimbledon loop is concerned. 2 tph for the forseeable future ?

also note that the off peak London Victoria to Sutton fast trains are now fast to Carshalton instead. might be something to do with the fact that the Sutton and Cheam MP gets off at Carshalton station...

I wonder if the 2 TPH Wimbledon loop is due to platform space at Blackfriars, as the Sevenoaks services will be terminating there along with SE services to Ashford which will be replaced I imagine by TL services in Dec 2019.
That extra service from BFR may need to wait until then.

 

[thewaistcoat]

2Y85 is a 387 today, so will this remain so or change again on Monday?

Would have been nice to have a couple more comfortable days on the well liked 365 before facing the inevitable.

The Wifi was working well on it though.

 

[MatthewRead]

When was the last slammer on great northern? The 1980s

1988 I do believe.

 

[NeroWolfe]

I had a meeting in London today and managed to get an ‘early bath’. I wasn’t sure whether I would manage to get back to Kings X for the 11.22 to Peterborough so consoled myself that I could get the slower 11.34. However, the latter was not displayed on the Departures board.

Perhaps I’ve misunderstood but are some of the revised services via St Pancras already running (not that the lad at the entrance to Platform 11 was aware)?
Here is a screen shot showing no 11.34 but an 11.45 from St Pancras (or take a separate service to Finsbury Park and change there for the connection).

Luckily I managed to get the 11.22 but I would have been damned annoyed if I missed the 11.45 by not being able to get over Pancras Rd in time and had to wait an hour.

Is this to continue until the May changeover and why isn't there any info displayed at the station?

 

[jon0844]

I had a meeting in London today and managed to get an ‘early bath’. I wasn’t sure whether I would manage to get back to Kings X for the 11.22 to Peterborough so consoled myself that I could get the slower 11.34. However, the latter was not displayed on the Departures board.

Perhaps I’ve misunderstood but are some of the revised services via St Pancras already running (not that the lad at the entrance to Platform 11 was aware)?
Here is a screen shot showing no 11.34 but an 11.45 from St Pancras (or take a separate service to Finsbury Park and change there for the connection).

Luckily I managed to get the 11.22 but I would have been damned annoyed if I missed the 11.45 by not being able to get over Pancras Rd in time and had to wait an hour.

Is this to continue until the May changeover and why isn't there any info displayed at the station?


View attachment 44234 View attachment 44235 View attachment 44236

I believe there is a plan to show trains using the ECML at both St Pancras and King's Cross so you can decide whether to walk over or not. I have no idea how it will be set up, or indeed if they'll remove trains from screens 5 or 10 minutes before (given you'd struggle to get over the road if it was in 2 minutes, especially with doors closing up to 30 seconds before departing).

 

[bramling]

I had a meeting in London today and managed to get an ‘early bath’. I wasn’t sure whether I would manage to get back to Kings X for the 11.22 to Peterborough so consoled myself that I could get the slower 11.34. However, the latter was not displayed on the Departures board.

Perhaps I’ve misunderstood but are some of the revised services via St Pancras already running (not that the lad at the entrance to Platform 11 was aware)?
Here is a screen shot showing no 11.34 but an 11.45 from St Pancras (or take a separate service to Finsbury Park and change there for the connection).

Luckily I managed to get the 11.22 but I would have been damned annoyed if I missed the 11.45 by not being able to get over Pancras Rd in time and had to wait an hour.

Is this to continue until the May changeover and why isn't there any info displayed at the station?


View attachment 44234 View attachment 44235 View attachment 44236

Welcome to GTR and the Thameslink Programme playing trains.

The 11:34 KX-Peterborough is diverted to Cambridge, with the Thameslink service taking the Peterborough path.

There is at least one poster displayed at King's Cross, but it's hardly conspicuous.

 

[bramling]

I believe there is a plan to show trains using the ECML at both St Pancras and King's Cross so you can decide whether to walk over or not. I have no idea how it will be set up, or indeed if they'll remove trains from screens 5 or 10 minutes before (given you'd struggle to get over the road if it was in 2 minutes, especially with doors closing up to 30 seconds before departing).

The split between KX and St Pancras is simply not going to work well, especially with the Cambridge service being split right through the day. At least the peak-time services generally involve commuters so they will generally know what they're doing and what to aim for (especially if they dislike the 700s!).

 

[jon0844]

The split between KX and St Pancras is simply not going to work well, especially with the Cambridge service being split right through the day. At least the peak-time services generally involve commuters so they will generally know what they're doing and what to aim for (especially if they dislike the 700s!).

It could if signed clearly I suppose, but for a lot of people it isn't going to be something they'll choose to do. Far more likely they'd wait, even if for a long time.

The faces of confusion at Stevenage suggest people aren't daring to take a train to St Pancras over a King's Cross service they know and trust.

 

[bramling]

The faces of confusion at Stevenage suggest people aren't daring to take a train to St Pancras over a King's Cross service they know and trust.

Yes, it seems people are letting the Horsham trains go. The publicity about the whole thing has been utterly shambolic. People turning up at King's Cross for services which don't now exist, and people letting the Horsham trains pass and then ending up on a slow service. Well done GTR and Thameslink Programme, you really give the impression of knowing what you're doing!

 

[Hadders]

It could if signed clearly I suppose, but for a lot of people it isn't going to be something they'll choose to do. Far more likely they'd wait, even if for a long time.

The faces of confusion at Stevenage suggest people aren't daring to take a train to St Pancras over a King's Cross service they know and trust.

Yes, it seems people are letting the Horsham trains go. The publicity about the whole thing has been utterly shambolic. People turning up at King's Cross for services which don't now exist, and people letting the Horsham trains pass and then ending up on a slow service. Well done GTR and Thameslink Programme, you really give the impression of knowing what you're doing!

And the silence about fares continues. Quite disgraceful really.

 

[TheDavibob]

The split between KX and St Pancras is simply not going to work well, especially with the Cambridge service being split right through the day. At least the peak-time services generally involve commuters so they will generally know what they're doing and what to aim for (especially if they dislike the 700s!).

Don't think there's an issue with the Cambridge split. It looks like (unlike now) the fast train from Kings Cross to Cambridge will always beat the intermediate semifast (originating at Brighton), at least outside of peak. Anyone travelling to Cambridge or beyond is best off starting from Kings Cross in all cases.

 

[Ianno87]

The split between KX and St Pancras is simply not going to work well, especially with the Cambridge service being split right through the day. At least the peak-time services generally involve commuters so they will generally know what they're doing and what to aim for (especially if they dislike the 700s!).

To be fair, for most of the day, the only stations where your train could be from either Kings X or St P amounts to:

Stevenage
Cambridge
Peterborough

Stevenage: Will depend on whether you're after VTEC or not. VTEC from one, GTR from the other.
Cambridge: Most people will gravitate to the fasts from King's Cross by habit
Peterborough: Again, mainly VTEC from one (for most passengers), GTR from the other

It will take less regular travellers a bit of time to get used to heading for St Pancras for their train for most GN stations. Peak comuters will be cannier...

 

[jon0844]

As it is, the time taken to enter the core is a bit of a mess. I think today the 1124 CBG to BTN had some 13 minutes to get from Finsbury Park to St Pancras, and sat in the tunnel for about 5 minutes with the driver mistakenly apologising for the 'delay'. There was of course no delay; it had to wait for its path! We still got into the platform early.

Obviously such a long time to wait is another reason to perhaps hold off using a train going through the core, as there's no way that at around midday there would have been much of a delay getting into King's Cross.

I wouldn't go as far as to blame GTR as this has been the plan for years and GTR is now implementing a plan that some might argue was rather flawed, or at best extremely optimistic.

People WILL adapt of course. Eventually people will come to realise St Pancras and King's Cross are next to each other and you can use either as your destination (coming back obviously requires making a choice) and it won't be as messy. But for a lot of 2018 there's going to be a lot of confusion.

 

[Hadders]

To be fair, for most of the day, the only stations where your train could be from either Kings X or St P amounts to:

Stevenage
Cambridge
Peterborough

Stevenage: Will depend on whether you're after VTEC or not. VTEC from one, GTR from the other.
Cambridge: Most people will gravitate to the fasts from King's Cross by habit
Peterborough: Again, mainly VTEC from one (for most passengers), GTR from the other

It will take less regular travellers a bit of time to get used to heading for St Pancras for their train for most GN stations. Peak comuters will be cannier...

There are GTR services in the peaks to Peterborough and Stevenage from Kings Cross. As far as Stevenage is concerned the timing is similar whether it's Kings Cross or St Pancras. Also many late night GTR services use Kings Cross rather than St Pancras.

 

[Failed Unit]

There are GTR services in the peaks to Peterborough and Stevenage from Kings Cross. As far as Stevenage is concerned the timing is similar whether it's Kings Cross or St Pancras. Also many late night GTR services use Kings Cross rather than St Pancras.

Late a night is worse. WGC has one train per day from St Pancras. Late at night when you dont want to be missing it.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

People WILL adapt of course. Eventually people will come to realise St Pancras and King's Cross are next to each other and you can use either as your destination (coming back obviously requires making a choice) and it won't be as messy. But for a lot of 2018 there's going to be a lot of confusion.

Or maybe occasional travellers coming home from London will realise that the best way to maximise your chances of getting home promptly is to not head for Kings Cross OR St Pancras OR Moorgate; head for Finsbury Park and you’ve got far more trains available??
In which case, allowing 4 minutes dwell time in the timetables will look like genius foresight, with all the extra people boarding, compared with present day !!

 

[AM9]

Or maybe occasional travellers coming home from London will realise that the best way to maximise your chances of getting home promptly is to not head for Kings Cross OR St Pancras OR Moorgate; head for Finsbury Park and you’ve got far more trains available??
In which case, allowing 4 minutes dwell time in the timetables will look like genius foresight, with all the extra people boarding, compared with present day !!

It's probably inspired by the expectations of Stratford when Crossrail starts running through the core.

 

[Ianno87]

There are GTR services in the peaks to Peterborough and Stevenage from Kings Cross. As far as Stevenage is concerned the timing is similar whether it's Kings Cross or St Pancras. Also many late night GTR services use Kings Cross rather than St Pancras.

Hence why I said "most of the day".

In the peaks commuters will be more switched on. I admit the late evening trains will need some careful passenger management, as that could get confusing.

 

[GoatSarah]

It could if signed clearly I suppose, but for a lot of people it isn't going to be something they'll choose to do. Far more likely they'd wait, even if for a long time.

The faces of confusion at Stevenage suggest people aren't daring to take a train to St Pancras over a King's Cross service they know and trust.

Not many people getting on the TL trials at Cambridge either, even though they run fast to Finsbury Park. I expect it'll take time.

ETA: Mind you, last one I took was displayed as Finsbury Park, Farringdon, City Thameslink, Blackfriars, etc., completely missing out St Pancras (which it obviously did call at), which wasn't helpful.

 

[jon0844]

Not many people getting on the TL trials at Cambridge either, even though they run fast to Finsbury Park. I expect it'll take time.

ETA: Mind you, last one I took was displayed as Finsbury Park, Farringdon, City Thameslink, Blackfriars, etc., completely missing out St Pancras (which it obviously did call at), which wasn't helpful.

The screens don't show St Pancras or London Bridge properly, meaning the stations aren't read out. Staff had to announce them as additional calls yesterday but I assume won't necessarily be able to every single time.

 

[sefton]

Hilarious listening to the announcer at St Pancras try and pronounce the stations the Peterborough train calls at.

Arlesey is a treat.

 

[philjo]

I see that the PDF timetables are now on the railplan2020 site - including details of the GN Inners. Hertford loop trains still run to Stevenage for now but only 1 per hour.

https://www.railplan2020.com/timetables

 

[Failed Unit]

Very interesting in the morning, with Moorgate services not stopping at Hadley Wood, Oakliegh Park and New Southgate as they will use Hornsey and Harringey instead. Not part of the conssultation and unlikely to be popular.

 

[jon0844]

Ah, there's a 0140 train to WGC now. That's actually better than now!

 

[mongoose]

WGC-KGX semi fasts at 02 and 32. Stopping at Hadley Wood in addition to the current pattern.