Passengers stuck on trains overnight in New Forest (01/03 - 02/03)

[CC 72100]

I would rather hope that SWR go above and beyond delay repay for those who were stuck on any incident trains - free travel vouchers, compensation, etc, as good will if nothing else.

I'd imagine names & details would be noted down to allow follow up by the specialist customer service team (normally a select few individuals directly employed by the TOC and not any agency etc. that may man the phones on their behalf) within SWR... names were certainly taken down on the unintended overnight train I dealt with today.

 

[AlanFry1]

What is it that you are looking for then?

Any recent experiences of lawsuits filed against rail operators in the UK (I'm sure there have been a few, I've surely read one or two from a few years ago), due to a delay where a lack of food, drink, even toilet facilities are on offer for a longer duration of time (7 hrs plus)? Just interesting to know

 

[6Gman]

I would have thought they could have got a diesel and some coaches from Eastleigh to run to collect the people
either from the other track or go close up and get the people off with ladders
the problem now seems to be to fragmented too many cooks and no fat controller, and no emergency back up

Would they have had the relevant locos, stock and staff hanging around at Eastleigh?

 

[30907]

I would have thought they could have got a diesel and some coaches from Eastleigh to run to collect the people
either from the other track or go close up and get the people off with ladders
the problem now seems to be to fragmented too many cooks and no fat controller, and no emergency back up

Which is effectively what they eventually did with a Voyager, see upthread?
I vaguely remember those spare locos and coaches at Eastleigh about 40 years ago - are they still there? Sorry, beaten to it.

 

[matt_world2004]

Gosh it must be wonderful in your perfect world!
They didn't set out to get stuck but circumstances resulted in it happening.

I was responding to someone who was arguing semantics over a news article instead of the much more serious people trapped on a train.

 

[Helvellyn]

You can see why, given posts like these, TOCs are conservative about the services they run when the weather forecast is as it has been for the last few days. There's been plenty of criticism in other threads about TOCs cancelling services that, in the eyes of the poster, didn't need to be cancelled.

Where I think some answers are needed on SWR is the decision for Thursday and Friday to run the normal timetable with select cancellations. I don't mean publically, but I really hope some searching questions are asked internally.

Totally puzzled why they didn't activate the Snow Plan or Snow Plan Plus. These are special timetables that thin out the service, allow extra time for journeys due to expected bad conditions and effectively run trains as out and back trips of Train + Guard + Driver all altogether. Would it have avoided all the problems SWR has had? No, not at all. But it might have made for a bit more of a robust service that was running. Also, it might have discouraged more people from travelling. Terminating Salisbury services at Basingstoke is hardly sending out a message to avoid all but essential travel.

I know there was much scepticism in the media on Tuesday when things didn't really seem to materialise, but Wednesday wasn't a good day so deciding to stick with it on Thursday and Friday is just odd. Delay Repay claims for the last two days will, I suspect, be rather eye watering.

 

[Llanigraham]

of course they can sue, and if they can prove negligence they would win, just like you can sue spurs because you go to be entertained and .......

Can you please state exactly what grounds they would have to take this to Court?

 

[theironroad]

Where I think some answers are needed on SWR is the decision for Thursday and Friday to run the normal timetable with select cancellations. I don't mean publically, but I really hope some searching questions are asked internally.

Totally puzzled why they didn't activate the Snow Plan or Snow Plan Plus. These are special timetables that thin out the service, allow extra time for journeys due to expected bad conditions and effectively run trains as out and back trips of Train + Guard + Driver all altogether. Would it have avoided all the problems SWR has had? No, not at all. But it might have made for a bit more of a robust service that was running. Also, it might have discouraged more people from travelling. Terminating Salisbury services at Basingstoke is hardly sending out a message to avoid all but essential travel.

I know there was much scepticism in the media on Tuesday when things didn't really seem to materialise, but Wednesday wasn't a good day so deciding to stick with it on Thursday and Friday is just odd. Delay Repay claims for the last two days will, I suspect, be rather eye watering.

Well I'm loathe t get into another argument in this thread so let's just say this.

Yesterday morning (Thurs) it was announced via the swr Twitter feed with links to website that the snow plan (the severe weather plan) had been activated for today.

All the pdf timetables were available and I even downloaded 2 routes.

It seems within about 2 hours that decision was rescinded and it was announced that a normal service would run.

Fast forward today and chaos.

To compound it, it was announced on twitter around 1100 that the service would wrap up early and that everyone should head home now. This led to a Twitter storm because the announcement was vague and didn't give any timeframe.

Eventually they said the service would be wound up by 2000 network wide.

Hours past until they put a list up of final trains from waterloo with the last at 2142 I think. Last Portsmouth train was 1800.

More time elapsed before a list was put up of last trains to Waterloo. The last train from Portsmouth to Waterloo was set for 1615. This was announced at c.1545, yup 30 mins before departure.

For the life of me I can't understand why the snow plan was cancelled. It would have been possible to run the plan while still not running trains west of Salisbury and Southampton.

I think that maybe the ORR should hold an inquiry into the way thisand wider issues have been handled, but unlikely to happen.

 

[sbt]

<snip>

The situation you have described would have left me stuck overnight, without accomodation, 'somewhere in the Portsmouth area' - possibly up on top of Portsdown Hill, 60 miles from home, unless I was very lucky. I am glad I took a days leave and stayed at home, despite SWR telling me that today would be basically a normal service and our office being open. Thanks for giving me ammuntion against the inevitable complainers at work who will say I should have made my way in.

 

[philthetube]

How are these customers being compensated for this? Could lawsuits be filed against SWR?

of course they can sue, and if they can prove negligence they would win, just like you can sue spurs because you go to be entertained and .......

Can you please state exactly what grounds they would have to take this to Court?

I was being sarcastic and responding to an earlier quote

 

[AlanFry1]

Can you please state exactly what grounds they would have to take this to Court?

a delay where a lack of food, drink, no heating and power, even toilet facilities could have posed a risk to health bearing in mind the weather

 

[AndrewE]

a delay where a lack of food, drink, no heating and power, even toilet facilities could have posed a risk to health bearing in mind the weather

and how could anyone (short of a superhero with magic powers) have produced these necessities, when just getting access to work out what is wrong with the unit is almost impossible anyway? Get real.

 

[farleigh]

Maybe the train company did their best to run a service given the best info they had and passengers were doing their best to get to work based on the best info they had. There is no need to find somebody to blame.

 

[theageofthetra]

Well I'm loathe t get into another argument in this thread so let's just say this.

Yesterday morning (Thurs) it was announced via the swr Twitter feed with links to website that the snow plan (the severe weather plan) had been activated for today.

All the pdf timetables were available and I even downloaded 2 routes.

It seems within about 2 hours that decision was rescinded and it was announced that a normal service would run.

Fast forward today and chaos.

To compound it, it was announced on twitter around 1100 that the service would wrap up early and that everyone should head home now. This led to a Twitter storm because the announcement was vague and didn't give any timeframe.

Eventually they said the service would be wound up by 2000 network wide.

Hours past until they put a list up of final trains from waterloo with the last at 2142 I think. Last Portsmouth train was 1800.

More time elapsed before a list was put up of last trains to Waterloo. The last train from Portsmouth to Waterloo was set for 1615. This was announced at c.1545, yup 30 mins before departure.

For the life of me I can't understand why the snow plan was cancelled. It would have been possible to run the plan while still not running trains west of Salisbury and Southampton.

I think that maybe the ORR should hold an inquiry into the way thisand wider issues have been handled, but unlikely to happen.

Who made that decision?

 

[waynemorrell]

Maybe the train company did their best to run a service given the best info they had and passengers were doing their best to get to work based on the best info they had. There is no need to find somebody to blame.

Unfortunately some people will always find someone else to blame, but then, that’s life!

 

[farleigh]

Oh - and the bus driver did a great job too! Again - people doing the best they can in horrible conditions

 

[Llanigraham]

a delay where a lack of food, drink, no heating and power, even toilet facilities could have posed a risk to health bearing in mind the weather

Total, complete and utter rubbish.

 

[theironroad]

Who made that decision?

I don't know.

Someone in the swr senior management I guess. They deleted the tweets which doesn't help.

 

[waynemorrell]

They deleted the tweets which doesn't help.

Now that is naughty in my honest opinion. Not casting aspersions but stands to reason they were trying to cover something up.

 

[theageofthetra]

Maybe the train company did their best to run a service given the best info they had and passengers were doing their best to get to work based on the best info they had. There is no need to find somebody to blame.

Now that is naughty in my honest opinion. Not casting aspersions but stands to reason they were trying to cover something up.

Exactly and it allows the same incompetent 'management' to get away with it or shuffled off to another role where they can do less damage. In an industry where the slightest error can lead to dismissal some are untouchable.

 

[All Line Rover]

On the BBC, praise from passengers for CrossCountry! Of course, operating diesel trains (over an electrified line) no doubt helped when it came to keeping passengers warm.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-43253130

Martin Hemmingway was stuck on a CrossCountry train and had an altogether different experience [from those travelling with South Western Railway].

"CrossCountry were brilliant," he said.

We were fed and watered and warm through the night, I've nothing but praise for them. The staff were wonderful."

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surprised the "spirit of the blitz" cliche has not been wheeled out yet.

It has on the BBC.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How are these customers being compensated for this? Could lawsuits be filed against SWR?

Why? What have they done that is illegal or even wrong?

 

[fgwrich]

Well done to all involved within SWR, XC and NR in the end for sorting it out, I also ended up being caught out by it albiet to a far lesser scale when the up slow to Reading line points had failed - that meant an interesting shunt around the station. Unfortunately I've seen far too many (and given up trying to correct) comments on the net today from the 'Well it snows in Europe and their trains still run ontime' brigade across the net. It's also good to see post's like BB21 posts as well.

All in all though, I do wonder how the outcome could have been if we still had any of the modified 57/3s here in the south - or if any of the 3 modified 57/3s could have been stationed here in Hampshire in the build up to this weather.

 

[antharro]

I was partially involved in this as I was on the 1635 1W33 Waterloo-Weymouth service which I suspect caused this. I've scan-read all of this thread and I don't think I'm repeating information here.

1W33 departed Waterloo 17 late and continued to pick up delays on its journey south. At Southampton Central, it split, with the front 5 running fast (Brockenhurst, Bournemouth and stations to Weymouth), and the rear 5 forming 2B51, a slow service calling almost all stations to Bournemouth. 1W33 departed Southampton 71 late and was immediately stopped by a points problem just outside the station. 2B51 was allowed to overtake (60 late). 1W33 reversed back to Southampton and took a different route, bypassing the faulty points.

1W33 ran at a good speed until it caught up with 2B51, which was limited to 20 mph as it had a faulty horn (apparently). Just outside Christchurch, we came to a stop and stayed there for what seemed like a long time. Eventually the guard told us that 2B51 had completely failed just outside Christchurch station and we were going to try to push it out, all the way to Bournemouth (non-stopping Pokesdown). We proceeded at walking pace through Christchurch station and connected up to 2B51. (1W33 was 201 late at this point - it had passed the previous station, Hinton Admiral, 124 late). The drivers gave it a good go but there didn't seem to be enough traction, and after much wheelspin, the attempts were abandoned. A short time later, the entire service was abandoned, and as the rear couple of carriages were still on the platform at Christchurch, I took the option to leave the train there and get a lift.

RTT says 1W33 arrived at Bournemouth 296 late, 95 minutes after the push-out attempt at Christchurch.

I suspect that while all this was going on, the 1705 and 1735 were sat behind us, and the third rail was slowly icing over...

I do wonder how they got 1W33 going again? Possibly they were able to disable some safety system and get the train moving in a condition where it could run as ECS, but wouldn't be able to run if it had passengers on-board? Does Bournemouth have any diesel locos? I wondered if they would run one on the down line up to Christchurch and haul us down to Bournemouth (where presumably 1W33 would have continued to Weymouth).

Funnily enough, before the push-out attempt, I remembered an incident where a 442 failed in *exactly* the same place as 2B51 one evening on a weekend. I was on the train behind and we had a wait while staff tried to get it moving again. I don't remember if we pushed it out or not; I think it got moving under its own power again.

RTT - 1635: 1W33 and 2B51.
RTT - 1705: 1W75
RTT - 1735: 1W35

 

[Juniper Driver]

If the train still has SWT branding.....................

You believe all you read then?

 

[Antman]

You believe all you read then?

What? It was an emergency, nobody cares one iota about such a minor detail.

 

[theageofthetra]

I was partially involved in this as I was on the 1635 1W33 Waterloo-Weymouth service which I suspect caused this. I've scan-read all of this thread and I don't think I'm repeating information here.

1W33 departed Waterloo 17 late and continued to pick up delays on its journey south. At Southampton Central, it split, with the front 5 running fast (Brockenhurst, Bournemouth and stations to Weymouth), and the rear 5 forming 2B51, a slow service calling almost all stations to Bournemouth. 1W33 departed Southampton 71 late and was immediately stopped by a points problem just outside the station. 2B51 was allowed to overtake (60 late). 1W33 reversed back to Southampton and took a different route, bypassing the faulty points.

1W33 ran at a good speed until it caught up with 2B51, which was limited to 20 mph as it had a faulty horn (apparently). Just outside Christchurch, we came to a stop and stayed there for what seemed like a long time. Eventually the guard told us that 2B51 had completely failed just outside Christchurch station and we were going to try to push it out, all the way to Bournemouth (non-stopping Pokesdown). We proceeded at walking pace through Christchurch station and connected up to 2B51. (1W33 was 201 late at this point - it had passed the previous station, Hinton Admiral, 124 late). The drivers gave it a good go but there didn't seem to be enough traction, and after much wheelspin, the attempts were abandoned. A short time later, the entire service was abandoned, and as the rear couple of carriages were still on the platform at Christchurch, I took the option to leave the train there and get a lift.

RTT says 1W33 arrived at Bournemouth 296 late, 95 minutes after the push-out attempt at Christchurch.

I suspect that while all this was going on, the 1705 and 1735 were sat behind us, and the third rail was slowly icing over...

I do wonder how they got 1W33 going again? Possibly they were able to disable some safety system and get the train moving in a condition where it could run as ECS, but wouldn't be able to run if it had passengers on-board? Does Bournemouth have any diesel locos? I wondered if they would run one on the down line up to Christchurch and haul us down to Bournemouth (where presumably 1W33 would have continued to Weymouth).

Funnily enough, before the push-out attempt, I remembered an incident where a 442 failed in *exactly* the same place as 2B51 one evening on a weekend. I was on the train behind and we had a wait while staff tried to get it moving again. I don't remember if we pushed it out or not; I think it got moving under its own power again.

RTT - 1635: 1W33 and 2B51.
RTT - 1705: 1W75
RTT - 1735: 1W35

I wonder how many other incidents were indirectly affected (or possibly caused) by the 20mph if horn not working rule?- there must have been hundreds if not thousands of failures across the network.

I seriously hope once this all settles down that a redesign, temp fix or a rule book change comes out of this.

 

[pompeyfan]

I was partially involved in this as I was on the 1635 1W33 Waterloo-Weymouth service which I suspect caused this. I've scan-read all of this thread and I don't think I'm repeating information here.

1W33 departed Waterloo 17 late and continued to pick up delays on its journey south. At Southampton Central, it split, with the front 5 running fast (Brockenhurst, Bournemouth and stations to Weymouth), and the rear 5 forming 2B51, a slow service calling almost all stations to Bournemouth. 1W33 departed Southampton 71 late and was immediately stopped by a points problem just outside the station. 2B51 was allowed to overtake (60 late). 1W33 reversed back to Southampton and took a different route, bypassing the faulty points.

1W33 ran at a good speed until it caught up with 2B51, which was limited to 20 mph as it had a faulty horn (apparently). Just outside Christchurch, we came to a stop and stayed there for what seemed like a long time. Eventually the guard told us that 2B51 had completely failed just outside Christchurch station and we were going to try to push it out, all the way to Bournemouth (non-stopping Pokesdown). We proceeded at walking pace through Christchurch station and connected up to 2B51. (1W33 was 201 late at this point - it had passed the previous station, Hinton Admiral, 124 late). The drivers gave it a good go but there didn't seem to be enough traction, and after much wheelspin, the attempts were abandoned. A short time later, the entire service was abandoned, and as the rear couple of carriages were still on the platform at Christchurch, I took the option to leave the train there and get a lift.

RTT says 1W33 arrived at Bournemouth 296 late, 95 minutes after the push-out attempt at Christchurch.

I suspect that while all this was going on, the 1705 and 1735 were sat behind us, and the third rail was slowly icing over...

I do wonder how they got 1W33 going again? Possibly they were able to disable some safety system and get the train moving in a condition where it could run as ECS, but wouldn't be able to run if it had passengers on-board? Does Bournemouth have any diesel locos? I wondered if they would run one on the down line up to Christchurch and haul us down to Bournemouth (where presumably 1W33 would have continued to Weymouth).

Funnily enough, before the push-out attempt, I remembered an incident where a 442 failed in *exactly* the same place as 2B51 one evening on a weekend. I was on the train behind and we had a wait while staff tried to get it moving again. I don't remember if we pushed it out or not; I think it got moving under its own power again.

RTT - 1635: 1W33 and 2B51.
RTT - 1705: 1W75
RTT - 1735: 1W35

Interesting in depth review. Southampton had multiple points failures across the Eastleigh box area. At one stage they lost all points in the up direction except from platform 1 to the up tunnel. This meant Southern’s already in the area had to shunt via the down slow which slowed everything further, then the points around millbrook failed.

Worth baring in mind as well that at least 5 crews that I know of were on duty 25-29 hours. 2 Bournemouth, 1 Salisbury crew stuck near Gillingham I believe, 1 Fratton SW, and 1 Fratton GW stuck at Westbury over night.

I’m going to say it and I’m going to change my tune compared to previous trains... in this situation, if there was only a driver on the train the workload would have been unimaginable. 2 pairs of hands are better than 1. I know there’s no immediate threat of DCO to Bournemouth but once it’s on the network staff will constantly be looking over their shoulder for an order to replace the 159s and the 442s/Desiros.

 

[Antman]

Interesting in depth review. Southampton had multiple points failures across the Eastleigh box area. At one stage they lost all points in the up direction except from platform 1 to the up tunnel. This meant Southern’s already in the area had to shunt via the down slow which slowed everything further, then the points around millbrook failed.

Worth baring in mind as well that at least 5 crews that I know of were on duty 25-29 hours. 2 Bournemouth, 1 Salisbury crew stuck near Gillingham I believe, 1 Fratton SW, and 1 Fratton GW stuck at Westbury over night.

I’m going to say it and I’m going to change my tune compared to previous trains... in this situation, if there was only a driver on the train the workload would have been unimaginable. 2 pairs of hands are better than 1. I know there’s no immediate threat of DCO to Bournemouth but once it’s on the network staff will constantly be looking over their shoulder for an order to replace the 159s and the 442s/Desiros.

According to some reports the driver remained locked in his cab and refused to give any information although in fairness he probably didn't have any information to give.