Snow Service Changes 25/02/18 onwards.

[TUC]

Well I can't recall snowfall like this in late February for a good many years.

But I can recall one in May, only two years ago.

 

[theironroad]

With you on this - BR made it very clear that all staff - even if they could not get into their normal place of work , were expected to go to their local station and offer their services. To be used to whatever was needed. This is how (being rules and regs trained and classed as a competent person) , I ended up clearing points at Wimbledon in 1987 , digging out a stalled C69 stock stalled outside the station and generally co-ordinating up to the last service train. I actually enjoyed a return to the basic railway - having been office bound for a few years. Agreed there was a minimal service , but the travelling public appreciated the effort. Did this several times since - most recently not being allowed or passed on safety critical duties , but de-icing 319 service trains and snow clearance on platforms was OK.

Trouble is today - this , by and large does not happen for all sorts of (contractual) reasons.

On my toc that rule about reporting to your nearest station if not possible to get to your home station still exists though we don't really get major snow or floods so not sure how how often it's used. Also most TOC staff would be limited to the station or platform as I'm sure NR wouldn't want for staff interfering on their patch.

 

[Dr_Paul]

Here are the Overground changes for Tuesday. Why, for example, cut Richmond to Willesden? This is a heavily-used route that cuts across where no other route goes (the quickest substitute, which takes twice as long, is up to Clapham Junction and change there for a Willesden service). Eventually, by about mid-day, a half-hourly shuttle service was implemented between Richmond and Willesden, which is better than nothing. Does anyone know why this service was completely cancelled, and then only partially reinstated?

*******************

An altered timetable has been implemented on a number of routes today. The following altered service is scheduled to run between 06:00 and 23:00:

• 4 trains per hour in each direction between London Liverpool Street and Chingford
  4 trains per hour in each direction between London Liverpool Street and Enfield Town throughout the morning and afternoon peak periods
• 2 trains per hour in each direction between London Liverpool Street and Enfield Town during the off-peak
• No service between Edmonton Green and Cheshunt
• No service on the Romford to Upminster route
• The North London Line will run 4 trains per hour in each direction between Stratford and Clapham Junction
• No services will run between Richmond and Willesden Junction
• 3 trains per hour will run in both directions between Gospel Oak and Barking
• The East London Line (via Surrey Quays) to all destinations, and the line between Watford Junction and London Euston, will both operate a full timetabled service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well I can't recall snowfall like this in late February for a good many years.

I can - last year. No idea if it was in Feb or not but there was definitely similar snowfall. Maybe not in the same place but certainly around the UK.

There has also been similar snowfall in various parts of the UK over the past 5-10 years. Before that there was a period of almost no snow and very hot and dry summers, but these things go in cycles in any case.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And, of course, if the first train drops 10 minutes because of the conditions, and the next is initially delayed by the first train and then drops another 10" because of the conditions, and the third ....

And an hour into the timetable trains are consistently 60+ late, the unit diagrams are all over the shop, and the traincrew diagrams are an exercise in optimism ...

That's why you thin out the service.

Or you do what the usual south WCML approach is (except when using the 2-track contingency timetable which only removes 4 or 5tph from Euston as a whole) - you run as much as you can into London in the morning peak and out of it in the evening peak, regardless of how late it ends up, then you cancel a ton of trains in the relatively quiet weekday daytime to get it all back where it should be.

That approach actually works quite well, because it means you get the full capacity and nobody gets confused over what stops where.

 

[700007]

I'll be honest, I was not happy with the way TfL Rail handled this 'beast from the east' today.

Whilst I fully understand Network Rail's co-operation and influence with TfL Rail to make sure that you should make a contingency timetable, which was the right thing to do in case snow had fallen, the emergency timetable was incredibly poorly written. As someone who has done a fair share of scheduling work, I don't think TfL Rail had the right approach at all. It was essentially a Saturday timetable with very little editing, or catering to large crowds, crowd-flows and dwell times.

I'm still confused why it wasn't until 0721 when the first train started running service (normally 0444) considering the adjacent Greater Anglia was running services from 6 if I am not mistaken. (Surely prove runs don't take that long?) However I'm probably thinking I'm missing something on this. But that particular aspect aside, starting a 57-million strong a year passenger train service slap bang at the height of rush hour is bound to be a disaster.

And it was.

TfL Rail did not take enough, if any, measures at all unfortunately to combat this. Stations were seriously understaffed and it was dangerous. Trains were rammed to the rafters and it was only getting busier with several fights breaking out and both passengers and staff getting to the end of their tethers.

TfL Rail took the wrong approach this morning in terms of scheduling. Services if possible, should've started earlier regardless of snow or not even if it was after 6. That one hour can make a huge difference. Secondly, it was unacceptable to run all trains as all stations - whoever's idea this was should have re-evaulated how slow, inefficient and dangerously busy the service was becoming at around 8am this morning because of this. If a train starting at Shenfield was already packed to the brim at Romford (and passengers in general on this line do not get off until at least Stratford, so it's not to say masses of space will free up), why is it still bothering to make all the stops to London Liverpool Street? Why not just run fast to Ilford perhaps then stop at the quieter stations Manor Park and Maryland. This was a huge mistake. There should have been a staggered start - essentially I mean with the first trains, a train should've started at Ilford perhaps at 0700, Chadwell Heath at 0702, Gidea Park at 0704 and Shenfield at 0706. This helps reduce the crowds bit by bit the closer you get to London as people would've filled up on a more emptier train starting close to their station of boarding.

Trains one every 10 minutes was also a huge mistake. For a service that is usually running every 3-4 or so minutes on normal timetable, in a London suburb the crowds pick up incredibly quickly. Queuing systems were in place at majority of stations because the lack of capacity was that bad. Trains should have been at least one every 5 minutes between London Liverpool Street and Chadwell Heath / Gidea Park if possible, with alternating calling patterns between these shorter services and the ones going to/from Shenfield. It would've helped capacity flow much better.

Dwell times was also an issue particularly on their beloved statistics half. It doesn't take 30 seconds on such a busy line at every station to load and unload passengers. Surely for the sake of punctuality dwell times should've been extended to 2 minutes at the busier stations at least (Romford, Chadwell Heath, Ilford, Stratford) with 1 minute at the smaller stations just for today's case. It made trains run late incredibly quickly over small delays that were near unavoidable and impacted the next trips the trains were doing. My train this morning sat at most stops for nearly 3 or so minutes and in similar circumstances dwell times are more than 30 seconds. The journey would've been slower on paper, but for a temporary fixture, it helps a huge lot with the reliability and punctuality of services across the line.

I would've done, in terms of calling patterns:
Shenfield, Brentwood, Harold Wood, Gidea Park, Romford, Ilford, Manor Park, Maryland, Stratford and London Liverpool Street (every 10 minutes)
Chadwell Heath, Goodmayes, Seven Kings, Ilford, Forest Gate, Stratford and London Liverpool Street (every 10 minutes)

If possible, I would've had Maryland closed to be honest until slightly later in the peak after things got going. It's a small station that picks up the least amount of patronage on the line. It's also the easiest station to make alternative arrangements (passengers can go to Stratford or Forest Gate easily).

Footnote
As a footnote, I found it really annoying that there were passengers at Stratford waiting for a TfL Rail train into Liverpool Street when they can see the train is full and standing, there's no place to get on yet they still demand we make space for them when we can't for ourselves. The Central line from the adjacent platform 3 can get you to the same destination, with more frequent trains every 2 or so minutes in no more than 9 or 10 minutes??? Why do you wait up to 10 minutes for a packed train you can't get on? That throws me and it's worrying that this is quite a handful of people waiting.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

On my toc that rule about reporting to your nearest station if not possible to get to your home station still exists though we don't really get major snow or floods so not sure how how often it's used. Also most TOC staff would be limited to the station or platform as I'm sure NR wouldn't want for staff interfering on their patch.

Far enough -in BR days , if you were competent , you could do points etc .....later on , "no" - but staff can / and could help (as I said , no safety critical stuff) - help platform side with information and so on ...and a bit of snow clearance..

My particular operational gem - apart from the iced up C69 Tube train , was digging out the junction at Motspur Park in a blizzard to get the Chessington branch open - I had blocked the line - we had no more than 2 brushes and a shovel , and could hardly see the 3d rail in the dark....extreme care , but we did it.

That and putting a young lad with his mother - who had walked a good way in snow and ice for a crucial music exam ....no service trains around , but we had the snowplough / de-icer , so he got a cab ride to Waterloo. Learned later he passed with merit...

 

[theironroad]

Lol, I can think of half a dozen things in your post that would get you a p45 these days.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Lol, I can think of half a dozen things in your post that would get you a p45 these days.

Not really in those days , - got a letter of thanks from the GM Southern ... different times / different world.

 

[goblinuser]

Lol, I can think of half a dozen things in your post that would get you a p45 these days.

Aside from shovelling snow on a live third rail, which no one should be expected to do, the other things seem part of having the railway as a service rather than the monopoly game the DfT now plays.

 

[Taunton]

Well I can't recall snowfall like this in late February for a good many years.

Seeing as there has been zero measurable snowfall here, that's not hard. However; this is February 2013, visible from the DLR, London Docklands. Sorry the snowman has no hat.

 

[Antman]

Seeing as there has been zero measurable snowfall here, that's not hard. However; this is February 2013, visible from the DLR, London Docklands. Sorry the snowman has no hat.View attachment 43283

There's been plenty of snowfall in the south east today with many roads impassable, many trains have been very quiet with most people heeding the weather warnings.

 

[sheff1]

What we've had today is abnormal British winter weather.

This prompted me to look out of the window. After having no snow until around 1800 we now have 1.5"-2". That is perfectly normal British winter weather. In fact, it would be abnormal if we did not get such snow falls in any given winter. I remember this amount of snow (and more, often much more) at various times between late October and May - May was unusual, but February certainly isn't.

 

[theageofthetra]

The morning peak is going to be very interesting in the South East.

At least 3-4" in South London has arrived in the last hour and still falling heavily.

 

[Wivenswold]

Yep. Genuinely hilarious. Thanks to thousands of train planning and meteorological "experts" on GA's Twitter feed yesterday, they've implemented the normal timetable today, only for a "snow streamer" to set up which pretty much follows the path of the soon-to-be-introduced Lowestoft to Liverpool Street service.

Hopefully this will knock people down a peg or two in that recently empowered "say what I see/truth hurts" brigade. Beautiful in so many ways.

 

[142094]

Roads are going to be chaos as well. Looks like nothing has been gritted in West London.

 

[dk1]

Oh my word there's heaps of the stuff out there this morning. This is going to be another day of fun & games in East Anglia. Just a shame it's 24hrs late after they went to such lengths to reinstate today's services yesterday afternoon/evening. It was quite considerate of that Easterly Beast though as I'm now off for two days

 

[JW16]

I'll be honest, I was not happy with the way TfL Rail handled this 'beast from the east' today.

Whilst I fully understand Network Rail's co-operation and influence with TfL Rail to make sure that you should make a contingency timetable, which was the right thing to do in case snow had fallen, the emergency timetable was incredibly poorly written. As someone who has done a fair share of scheduling work, I don't think TfL Rail had the right approach at all. It was essentially a Saturday timetable with very little editing, or catering to large crowds, crowd-flows and dwell times.

I'm still confused why it wasn't until 0721 when the first train started running service (normally 0444) considering the adjacent Greater Anglia was running services from 6 if I am not mistaken. (Surely prove runs don't take that long?) However I'm probably thinking I'm missing something on this. But that particular aspect aside, starting a 57-million strong a year passenger train service slap bang at the height of rush hour is bound to be a disaster.

And it was.

TfL Rail did not take enough, if any, measures at all unfortunately to combat this. Stations were seriously understaffed and it was dangerous. Trains were rammed to the rafters and it was only getting busier with several fights breaking out and both passengers and staff getting to the end of their tethers.

TfL Rail took the wrong approach this morning in terms of scheduling. Services if possible, should've started earlier regardless of snow or not even if it was after 6. That one hour can make a huge difference. Secondly, it was unacceptable to run all trains as all stations - whoever's idea this was should have re-evaulated how slow, inefficient and dangerously busy the service was becoming at around 8am this morning because of this. If a train starting at Shenfield was already packed to the brim at Romford (and passengers in general on this line do not get off until at least Stratford, so it's not to say masses of space will free up), why is it still bothering to make all the stops to London Liverpool Street? Why not just run fast to Ilford perhaps then stop at the quieter stations Manor Park and Maryland. This was a huge mistake. There should have been a staggered start - essentially I mean with the first trains, a train should've started at Ilford perhaps at 0700, Chadwell Heath at 0702, Gidea Park at 0704 and Shenfield at 0706. This helps reduce the crowds bit by bit the closer you get to London as people would've filled up on a more emptier train starting close to their station of boarding.

Trains one every 10 minutes was also a huge mistake. For a service that is usually running every 3-4 or so minutes on normal timetable, in a London suburb the crowds pick up incredibly quickly. Queuing systems were in place at majority of stations because the lack of capacity was that bad. Trains should have been at least one every 5 minutes between London Liverpool Street and Chadwell Heath / Gidea Park if possible, with alternating calling patterns between these shorter services and the ones going to/from Shenfield. It would've helped capacity flow much better.

Dwell times was also an issue particularly on their beloved statistics half. It doesn't take 30 seconds on such a busy line at every station to load and unload passengers. Surely for the sake of punctuality dwell times should've been extended to 2 minutes at the busier stations at least (Romford, Chadwell Heath, Ilford, Stratford) with 1 minute at the smaller stations just for today's case. It made trains run late incredibly quickly over small delays that were near unavoidable and impacted the next trips the trains were doing. My train this morning sat at most stops for nearly 3 or so minutes and in similar circumstances dwell times are more than 30 seconds. The journey would've been slower on paper, but for a temporary fixture, it helps a huge lot with the reliability and punctuality of services across the line.

I would've done, in terms of calling patterns:
Shenfield, Brentwood, Harold Wood, Gidea Park, Romford, Ilford, Manor Park, Maryland, Stratford and London Liverpool Street (every 10 minutes)
Chadwell Heath, Goodmayes, Seven Kings, Ilford, Forest Gate, Stratford and London Liverpool Street (every 10 minutes)

If possible, I would've had Maryland closed to be honest until slightly later in the peak after things got going. It's a small station that picks up the least amount of patronage on the line. It's also the easiest station to make alternative arrangements (passengers can go to Stratford or Forest Gate easily).

Footnote
As a footnote, I found it really annoying that there were passengers at Stratford waiting for a TfL Rail train into Liverpool Street when they can see the train is full and standing, there's no place to get on yet they still demand we make space for them when we can't for ourselves. The Central line from the adjacent platform 3 can get you to the same destination, with more frequent trains every 2 or so minutes in no more than 9 or 10 minutes??? Why do you wait up to 10 minutes for a packed train you can't get on? That throws me and it's worrying that this is quite a handful of people waiting.

Totally agree with every point.

 

[Failed Unit]

So today - at the moment we have, snow, a full timetable and normal service. See how the day goes but if it stays the same it won’t vindicate network rail yesterday. The forecast today is the same as yesterday but the snow is actually covering more areas in the SouthEast (where the restrictions were placed I know the north had snow yesterday)

 

[Bletchleyite]

The morning peak is going to be very interesting in the South East.

At least 3-4" in South London has arrived in the last hour and still falling heavily.

GTR managed to get out of bed this morning and the WLL is running..for now.

 

[Antman]

This prompted me to look out of the window. After having no snow until around 1800 we now have 1.5"-2". That is perfectly normal British winter weather. In fact, it would be abnormal if we did not get such snow falls in any given winter. I remember this amount of snow (and more, often much more) at various times between late October and May - May was unusual, but February certainly isn't.

Many winters pass without significant snowfall, what we've got at the moment is most certainly exceptional.

 

[matt_world2004]

With you on this - BR made it very clear that all staff - even if they could not get into their normal place of work , were expected to go to their local station and offer their services. To be used to whatever was needed. This is how (being rules and regs trained and classed as a competent person) , I ended up clearing points at Wimbledon in 1987 , digging out a stalled C69 stock stalled outside the station and generally co-ordinating up to the last service train. I actually enjoyed a return to the basic railway - having been office bound for a few years. Agreed there was a minimal service , but the travelling public appreciated the effort. Did this several times since - most recently not being allowed or passed on safety critical duties , but de-icing 319 service trains and snow clearance on platforms was OK.

Trouble is today - this , by and large does not happen for all sorts of (contractual) reasons.

This is how TfL work now. Particularly during strikes. If you cannot do your regular job because of strike action you go down to your local station and help out(Including national rail ones), In London. I was sent to paddington NR during the last strike and during the snowfall that closed the metropolitan line I would have been sent to Uxbridge however was rostered off that day.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Many winters pass without significant snowfall, what we've got at the moment is most certainly exceptional.

It’s really not, though I don’t know your age - those under about 30 will have seen a lot less of it than those older.

 

[MadCommuter]

ScotRail advising against travel in the Strathclyde area at the moment.

I've seen a bus company (McGills) tweet that they have suspended their services until the authorities clear the roads.

 

[Failed Unit]

Many winters pass without significant snowfall, what we've got at the moment is most certainly exceptional.

It definitely isn’t. We had more in December 2017 (ie this winter).

I won’t proceed to list them all but this to me is a standard snow event not untypical of February. Statistics show more snow falls in February that December.

 

[Bantamzen]

Lots more snow in Yorkshire this morning, and coming down very heavily too. TPE have put out an advisory for passengers to check their journeys before setting out, which given that many bus services on the tops of the Pennines are cancelled is understandable.

If you're travelling this morning, please take care and check before travelling. You can find information on your service here - https://t.co/NWZnb59sUi

 

[Bromley boy]

It’s really not, though I don’t know your age - those under about 30 will have seen a lot less of it than those older.

If we are talking about the southeast, and London in particular, significant snowfall (ie enough to cause disruption) is definitely pretty uncommon.

That’s certainly bourne out by my years (approx 10) of commuting, all within Greater London. I was significantly disrupted due to snow on two occasions I can recall.

This also appears to be supported by met office data.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/12/often-does-snow-fall-uk-getting-rarer/

data from the Met Office reveals that snow is a fairly rare occurrence in the south of England in January, with snow or sleet falling on an average of 2.5 days in Middlesex between 1981 and 2010.

 

[Del1977]

Not sure if snow related, but ATW have cancelled all long distance services (Cardiff to Manchester/Holyhead) as their Class 175s are out of service for urgent safety checks.

https://twitter.com/ArrivaTW/status/968746903738503169

 

[Highlandspring]

The class 175 issue is not weather related.

 

[cuccir]

The North East part of the ECML is in complete meltdown this morning. Electricity failure at Newcastle, points failure at Durham. Snowfall heaviest since the very cold winters 2009-2011.
--
Problems further north too - ScotRail advising not to travel in Strathclyde, with many lines suspended; disruption to the WCML north of Carlisle.