Future Operator Branding Names

[61653 HTAFC]

Or just let the train companies use brand names like Arriva, or Virgin, or Stagecoach, or Metro, or Cocked Hat Railways... as long as it's clear, not confusing, and you can tell the difference between one TOC and another, why on earth does it matter.
I agree that saying 'I work for GWR' feels and sounds better than 'I work for First', but I also think that's a 'nice to have', not an essential.

I'll readily admit that my issue with corporate branding is probably 60% ideological, but putting that aside we then fall into the Virgin problem again: you'd have to restrict companies to just one franchise, unless they have the geographical modifiers you seem to dislike.

Drifting off-topic for a moment, one thing that would perhaps be a help to occasional travellers would be to give services or routes public facing numbers (much like flights and many European railways). You could even just use headcodes with a heading indicating operator: for example the 2215 Huddersfield to Manchester Victoria could be identified as NT-2M91 on station displays, passenger itineraries and advance tickets*. Just a thought...

*=Yes, i know there won't be many advance tickets used on that service, it was just an example.

 

[DanTrain]

I like train operators to be location neutral, so I don't like names that favour a particular region. Alphaline and Virgin Trains are the sort of names I like. Perhaps we could have:

East Midlands Trains - Stagecoach Express
Northern - Metro Travel
Arriva Trains Wales - Arriva Travel

things like that.

A problem with naming trains after areas is they get mixed up i.e. EMT used to recieve tweets from London Midland passengers and I've noticed a few people get South Eastern and Southern mixed up, one person was an enthusiast!

Stagecoach express sounds like a ‘slightly faster than the normal crawl’ bus route, metro travel just sounds like a government travel initiative and Arriva travel sounds like a railcard. Whilst not perfecr, names specific to the franchise are much more appealing than brands, and they make the railway stand out as a more premium, ideal way to travel to those who spend their lives on slow, shuddering buses.

 

[Mathew S]

I'll readily admit that my issue with corporate branding is probably 60% ideological, but putting that aside we then fall into the Virgin problem again: you'd have to restrict companies to just one franchise, unless they have the geographical modifiers you seem to dislike.

Drifting off-topic for a moment, one thing that would perhaps be a help to occasional travellers would be to give services or routes public facing numbers (much like flights and many European railways). You could even just use headcodes with a heading indicating operator: for example the 2215 Huddersfield to Manchester Victoria could be identified as NT-2M91 on station displays, passenger itineraries and advance tickets*. Just a thought...

*=Yes, i know there won't be many advance tickets used on that service, it was just an example.

You wouldn't have to restrict companies to one franchise, just that they had to make the operating names of the two (or more) TOCs distinctive. To take Virgin as an example, they could easily have used a different name for the KGX-Edinburgh services. No idea what, mind, but that's what marketing people are for.

Re: the headcode thing, it's not just advances that are restricted, TOC names matter most when it comes to restricted but flexible tickets eg. 'TransPennine ONLY'.

 

[goblinuser]

Or just let the train companies use brand names like Arriva, or Virgin, or Stagecoach, or Metro, or Cocked Hat Railways... as long as it's clear, not confusing, and you can tell the difference between one TOC and another, why on earth does it matter.
I agree that saying 'I work for GWR' feels and sounds better than 'I work for First', but I also think that's a 'nice to have', not an essential.

Look what happened when they were allowed to come up with their own names and liveries...
You get 'one', 'First', and sickly purple rolling stock

 

[61653 HTAFC]

You wouldn't have to restrict companies to one franchise, just that they had to make the operating names of the two (or more) TOCs distinctive. To take Virgin as an example, they could easily have used a different name for the KGX-Edinburgh services. No idea what, mind, but that's what marketing people are for.

Re: the headcode thing, it's not just advances that are restricted, TOC names matter most when it comes to restricted but flexible tickets eg. 'TransPennine ONLY'.

I suppose Virgin could've branded East Coast as Stagecoach, seeing as that's who actually runs VTEC...

Train numbers would also help with single operator tickets as well as advances. They'd definitely help those whose English isn't great: for example last year I had a change of train at both Frankfurt and Nürnberg Hauptbahnhofs, and knowing I just needed to look on the boards for the correct destination and then check the number against what was on my ticket was a massive help.

 

[BluePenguin]

I have to say that I really don't like it. For me, knowing which company runs services on the route is more important than having the word "railway" in the title as it is obvious that you are dealing with trains. Using compas directions is useful and gives people an idea of what direction a TOC's services run. However writing "London" in everything is just confusing, especially as the first word of the name as it makes it harder to quickly find which "London & ......." you are after from a list or display board. Then again First Great Western and First Southwestern would be no easier to read than Govia Southern and Govia Southeastern.

Nostalgia is good and it is nice to catch a glimpse of what used to be. However I have a feeling that the railway is going through a reminiscent phase of looking back to when it was seeing better days. If they want to do it properly, the old style uniforms and announcements would make it an even better experience.

 

[Chris M]

I'm in the make the distinctive and not confusing camp with @Mathew S
c2c is good - distinctive and not confusing
Silverlink was similarly a good name (shame about the service)
Merseyrail is fine as that is confined to a well branded, defined network around Meryseyside.
London Overground is entirely in the London area so no problems with that.
Eurostar is good as its distinctive and confined to services that relate to the geography (trains to and from the European continent)

London Northwestern, East Coast, East Midlands, etc, are misleading as they operate trains that go nowhere near London or the Northwest, the east coast or the East Midlands. Better would be names like Bumble Bee Trains, Thistle Railways, or Alphabet Rail. (note I'm not a marketing person, better names are available). Operating company names would be restricted to subtitles if already used elsewhere - e.g. the WCML could continue to be "Virgin Train" but the East Coast operation could only be "Bright Red Trains - by Virgin" or something like that (although all trains they operate should be bright red so as not to be confusing).

 

[Bletchleyite]

ICWC was almost called Horizon Trains if the First bid had not been cancelled due to irregularities. The branding (attached) was even prepared.

FWIW, London Midland did make sense for WCML locals - almost all their services did either go to London or the Midlands or both, indeed the only two that could be said didn't were the two south WCML branches i.e. Marston Vale and St Albans.

 

[Chris M]

ICWC was almost called Horizon Trains if the First bid had not been cancelled due to irregularities. The branding (attached) was even prepared.

FWIW, London Midland did make sense for WCML locals - almost all their services did either go to London or the Midlands or both, indeed the only two that could be said didn't were the two south WCML branches i.e. Marston Vale and St Albans.

Horizon Trains would be a good name.
London Midland might have made sense for WCML locals, but it really didn't for the local services around Birmingham or the route to Liverpool.

 

[Bletchleyite]

London Midland might have made sense for WCML locals, but it really didn't for the local services around Birmingham or the route to Liverpool.

In what way did it not? All their services bar the two south WCML branches, as I said, served either London, the Midlands or both. So to me the name makes absolute sense.

 

[whhistle]

I suppose Virgin could've branded East Coast as Stagecoach, seeing as that's who actually runs VTEC...

But then why have Virgin's input at all?
They're only licencing the name really, so without it, they may as well have bid by themselves.

It would have been better for Virgin to pre-think these things and register different twitter handles in rediness. VirginEastCoast and VirginWestCoast would be fine, but then you'd have to be quick to re-register VirginTrains. But nobody seems to think of this until it's too late and other members of the public register the names in the hope for a quick buck; not working out that companies don't care - they'll just use something else.

 

[CptCharlee]

I heard the Wales and borders franchise will be run under the branding "transport for Wales" regardless of who is running the franchise.
That is probably the worst name I've heard for a TOC.

 

[DanTrain]

I heard the Wales and borders franchise will be run under the branding "transport for Wales" regardless of who is running the franchise.
That is probably the worst name I've heard for a TOC.

+1, sounds like some imagination is needed . ‘Wales Rails’ anyone?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

But then why have Virgin's input at all?
They're only licencing the name really, so without it, they may as well have bid by themselves.

That's a very good question. Do let me know when you find an answer because I haven't a clue!

I must say that I find the idea that using a meaningless buzz-word or brand is LESS confusing than a regional/compass-point-based name to be quite bizarre... Horizon Trains, really?

Still, better than Transport for Wales, which sounds like a government agency rather than a TOC!

 

[dorsetdesiro]

I heard the Wales and borders franchise will be run under the branding "transport for Wales" regardless of who is running the franchise.
That is probably the worst name I've heard for a TOC.

Sounds like they're going for the official approach a la WMR. Platform 1 for the 1200 Transport for Wales service to Shrewsbury" Catchy(!)

I'd go for "Welsh Rail" or "Wales Railway"

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd like to see dual branded Welsh Railways / Rheilffyrdd Cymru. TfW would be a subtext covering bus/coach as well.

Though the fact that everyone wants "Transport for X" shows just how well London has done.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

As for naming the Intercity West Coast, perhaps "Western Britannia Railway"? as this would generally cover both western parts of England and Scotland also including Wales for the Holyhead route

 

[DenmarkRail]

I'd like to see dual branded Welsh Railways / Rheilffyrdd Cymru. TfW would be a subtext covering bus/coach as well.
Though the fact that everyone wants "Transport for X" shows just how well London has done.

Yes, but except for TFL rail (which after December won't exist) you would never get on a 'Transport For London service to X'. It would always just be a TFL concession.

 

[Up_Tilt_390]

As for naming the Intercity West Coast, perhaps "Western Britannia Railway"? as this would generally cover both western parts of England and Scotland also including Wales for the Holyhead route

Western Britannia Railway sounds great in my opinion. Better than some I came up with beforehand.

 

[brick60000]

ICWC was almost called Horizon Trains if the First bid had not been cancelled due to irregularities. The branding (attached) was even prepared.

FWIW, London Midland did make sense for WCML locals - almost all their services did either go to London or the Midlands or both, indeed the only two that could be said didn't were the two south WCML branches i.e. Marston Vale and St Albans.

I actually think that's quite smart! Are there any images of the proposed livery at all?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I actually think that's quite smart! Are there any images of the proposed livery at all?

I've not seen one. It all comes from their design agency:

http://www.whataloadoftosh.com/projects/Horizon-Trains

 

[kieron]

You make a good point though: generic branding that can be transferred between franchise holders is all well and good until someone runs it so bad that the image becomes toxic:- the incumbent will hopefully lose the franchise at the next renewal but whoever comes in then has to rebuild a reputation from the ground up.

That doesn't seem to be an issue now. Each train company has its own idea for what a generic brand should be. As the DfT let private companies choose the trading names for its franchises, the name usually changes whenever a new franchisee takes over anyway.

If I have any preference, it's for short names which don't take up time and screen space which could be used to tell me something useful.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If we're going generic branding, it should be "National Rail"[1], with a subtext of "operated by X".

[1] Or I suppose you could have something like "Rail England", given that the other countries forming the UK are separate now.

 

[LLivery]

They're doing it as "vintage" is the "in" thing, its PR. Branding with traditional names provides a sense of competence, nostalgia and even respect. GNER sounds more grown up than c2c, that's exactly why has Great Western remained throughout. InterCity was a brand everyone knew and did exactly what it said on the tin, it also was copied all over the world. Operators realised it was spectacularly stupid to put their name in the brand - First Group sends shivers down Thameslink passengers, National Express is hated by AGA passengers. Even Virgin Trains is starting to backfire; they're in the press for something seemingly every week. Every time people see Virgin, they think Branson. Now operators are trying to bring the sense of competence, nostalgia and respect back, they've gone down this road. We saw it with Southern - going back to popular historic branding worked, unfortunately, its been totally destroyed. Problem is privatisation is just too unpopular and Network Rail has its fair share of problems. I doubt privatisation will last much longer anyway.

I'd like to see dual branded Welsh Railways / Rheilffyrdd Cymru. TfW would be a subtext covering bus/coach as well.

Though the fact that everyone wants "Transport for X" shows just how well London has done.

Indeed, Welsh Rail/Railways is far better. I'd be amazed if they actually go for Transport for Wales. That could be anything from a bus to a boat.

Western Britannia Railway sounds great in my opinion. Better than some I came up with beforehand.

WBR - Was British Rail, Want British Rail, We're British Rail - **double arrow** We're getting there.
I doubt any franchise would allow "BR" in their brand - look at the lengths TfL has gone just to (wrongly) dump the double arrow.

I've not seen one. It all comes from their design agency:

http://www.whataloadoftosh.com/projects/Horizon-Trains

It is very nice branding, but hate the name.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I must admit I dislike Horizon Trains more for the presence of the word "trains". It seems to hark back to the worst of the 1990s immediately after privatisation, just as "X Buses" (inevitably with the "Buses" in cursive font at about a 45 degree angle) harks back to the worst of bus deregulation. But "Horizon" on its own doesn't work for a rail operator, it's too generic.

I also don't like the colours, they're too FirstGroup pastel, but that's just a personal opinion.

Though I must admit the Pendolino interior pictured looks very comfortable.

 

[Parallel]

I'd like to see dual branded Welsh Railways / Rheilffyrdd Cymru.

Indeed, this would be adequate. In fact anything like “Welsh Railways” “Wales & Borders”, “Welsh Trains” would be fine.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

I've not seen one. It all comes from their design agency:

http://www.whataloadoftosh.com/projects/Horizon-Trains

The agency's name is amusing which you could describe the same to some TOC names...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The agency's name is amusing which you could describe the same to some TOC names...

I assume they're trying to be ironic... but as the saying goes, many a true word spoken in jest!

 

[JaJaWa]

ICWC was almost called Horizon Trains if the First bid had not been cancelled due to irregularities. The branding (attached) was even prepared.

FWIW, London Midland did make sense for WCML locals - almost all their services did either go to London or the Midlands or both, indeed the only two that could be said didn't were the two south WCML branches i.e. Marston Vale and St Albans.

via me
There’s a couple more bits that aren’t on that website (link)

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Western Britannia Railway sounds great in my opinion. Better than some I came up with beforehand.

It isn't easy to come up with a name for the IC East Coast post Virgin-Stagecoach, I thought of "Lothian & East Mercia Railway" and "Danelagh Railways" referring to when Yorkshire and East Midlands were under Viking rule.

I suppose "Eastern Britannia Railway" may be OK if the West Coast at the same time is "Western Britannia Railway" if they are operated by different companies that the branding style likely wouldn't look the same causing confusion as with Virgin unwilling to differenate between WC and EC.

The simpler "East Coast Trains" is being taken by FirstGroup for their rival open access service so say if Arriva or Abellio wins ICEC then they will have come up with another name...