My suggestion to increase the prices charged by on-board trolleys

[221129]

Yes, my personal opinion would be much the same.

With the Voyagers especially, the amount of time and effort to get hot water to the trains does cost in both staff time and equipment.

 

[221129]

Ofcourse, £10 for a 90g bar of chocolate would see very little sales, that would be a giant increase to what the current price is.

It's a question of "how much are people willing to pay?", the customer's "top price". I think in some cases, as mentioned earlier, RG & similar operations, have met the top price. But, in many cases, I don't think they have reached their full potential, pricing wise. If you look at the examples given i.e. Karyatis etc, you might get a better understanding of where I'm coming from.

I Respectfully suggest that is your (very ill informed IMO) opinion.

 

[Starmill]

I frequently spend some money at GWR buffets and ScotRail trolleys but not at RG trolleys.

Yeah, same for me. I will sometimes buy things from these, but I would never buy anything from a Rail Gourmet trolley.

 

[Starmill]

It's a question of "how much are people willing to pay?", the customer's "top price". I think in some cases, as mentioned earlier, RG & similar operations, have met the top price. But, in many cases, I don't think they have reached their full potential, pricing wise. If you look at the examples given i.e. Karyatis etc, you might get a better understanding of where I'm coming from.

What you are talking about is an attempt to extract consumer surplus that simply does not exist. RailGourmet clearly agree with me that it doesn't too, or they would already be charging the higher prices. I suspect they have rather more information about the market for onboard catering than you do.

 

[fowler9]

Ofcourse, £10 for a 90g bar of chocolate would see very little sales, that would be a giant increase to what the current price is.

It's a question of "how much are people willing to pay?", the customer's "top price". I think in some cases, as mentioned earlier, RG & similar operations, have met the top price. But, in many cases, I don't think they have reached their full potential, pricing wise. If you look at the examples given i.e. Karyatis etc, you might get a better understanding of where I'm coming from.

Maybe I am just cheap but prices on the trains went way above what I am willing to pay years ago. I think in the last ten years I bought 2 beers on a train because I was on my way to a match and was feeling flush.

 

[GusB]

I'm not a frequent rail traveller. My last journey was Elgin to Pitlochry and that was back in 2013. I have to say that I was quite impressed with both the quality and the pricing of the coffee from the trolley. I'd have paid a few pence extra for the service provided by the delightful gentleman who was running it that day. (He was wearing a Scotrail name-badge - do they do their own catering, or is it outsourced?)

I don't buy beer on the train that often, but the last time I did, it was less than £3. I wouldn't say that I'm happy to pay that amount for a can of beer that I could buy in a shop for far less, but I was willing to accept that I was paying a premium for buying on board a train. It was an acceptable amount for what was an impulse purchase. I've no idea what they're charging these days, but if they tried to charge me £4.50 for a can of Tennents, I'd be telling them where to shove it!

There is a point where people will simply not buy if the price is too high. Sure, there will be some people who will give in and pay if they're able to afford it regardless, but not everyone is rich. If enough people are put off by the prices, nobody will buy anything, and eventually the catering service will be withdrawn because it isn't profitable enough.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do you not think 4 quid something for a single can of (warm) Stella is inflated enough?

I'd be more likely to buy from a trolley if...

1. It was near-guaranteed to be there (this is the most important), and ALWAYS on the PIS if for any reason it was not
2. It had enough stock of what I wanted
3. It sold quality products - such as decent filter coffee and actually cold premium bottled beers and ciders

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't buy beer on the train that often, but the last time I did, it was less than £3. I wouldn't say that I'm happy to pay that amount for a can of beer that I could buy in a shop for far less, but I was willing to accept that I was paying a premium for buying on board a train. It was an acceptable amount for what was an impulse purchase. I've no idea what they're charging these days, but if they tried to charge me £4.50 for a can of Tennents, I'd be telling them where to shove it!

Again on the premium thing, I'd be far *more* willing to pay £4.50 for a bottle of premium local cider than £2.50 for a can of Strongbow.

Going right to the top of the market (i.e. the highest quality) is the best way to increase prices without causing too much irritation. Works at motorway services, too - why's there Waitrose there rather than Tesco? Same thing.

 

[MG11]

Again on the premium thing, I'd be far *more* willing to pay £4.50 for a bottle of premium local cider than £2.50 for a can of Strongbow.

Going right to the top of the market (i.e. the highest quality) is the best way to increase prices without causing too much irritation. Works at motorway services, too - why's there Waitrose there rather than Tesco? Same thing.

Good point, and I think a good example of this is when RG switched to Tyrrell's crisps from Walker's, it increased by 10p. I personally think they could have bumped it up to £1.30 but atleast that's a step in the right direction.

CrossCountry started doing bottled beers in the summer, I don't remember which brand but they looked high quality. I'm not sure how much they charged though. You can definitely charge more for a bottled beer than a can. I guess weight is an issue though, as they are heavier and it is a lot of weight for the host to pull.

 

[yorksrob]

Again on the premium thing, I'd be far *more* willing to pay £4.50 for a bottle of premium local cider than £2.50 for a can of Strongbow.

Going right to the top of the market (i.e. the highest quality) is the best way to increase prices without causing too much irritation. Works at motorway services, too - why's there Waitrose there rather than Tesco? Same thing.

London prices. Not all trains go near London.

 

[Starmill]

Good point, and I think a good example of this is when RG switched to Tyrrell's crisps from Walker's, it increased by 10p. I personally think they could have bumped it up to £1.30 but atleast that's a step in the right direction.

In the right direction? Really? I would be far less willing to buy a packet of walkers at a crazy price than a packet of Tyrell's, especially if the price were increased.

To almost anyone this is a step in the wrong direction.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Let's put it this way:

Unless I am absolutely desperately ravenously hungry, I do not buy anything from the on board trolley or shop services at all; I stock up my bag before boarding.

Reason?

On board food is already over-priced and has a very poor stock range.

 

[MG11]

In the right direction? Really? I would be far less willing to buy a packet of walkers at a crazy price than a packet of Tyrell's, especially if the price were increased.

To almost anyone this is a step in the wrong direction.

I think you have got the two brands muddled, they switched FROM Walker's TO Tyrrell's, not the other way round.

 

[12guard4]

A lot of catering trolleys lose money as it is because they don't sell enough. They are not going to sell more if they increase the prices just out more people off buying. This has already been pointed out to you though and I get the feeling you're a kid who doesn't understand.

 

[Starmill]

Why write them the other way around then? Just to make it more confusing?

Tell me, when you walk into a shop do you think: "Wow, I can't believe they're selling 150g of crisps for 89p, that's crazy I really wish they would sell them at around twice that price as I would be fundamentally happy to pay it, and maybe they could redecorate this shop with the proceeds."

This is not conventional consumer behavior.

 

[Starmill]

I stock up my bag before boarding.

You can't have a hot drink on a train without a Thermos. Also its not a good idea to make different hot drinks in the same one because of the potential for cross-contamination of coffee with everything else you might put in it later. So, to me, the cost of potentially lots of different Thermos flasks, the time and inconvenience of remembering to fill it up and then having to carry it around all day, even after its empty mean I never bother with it. Thus a hot drink on a Scotrail train for only £1.60 represents great value as it saves all of that bother and is inexpensive. The same fairly small very basic cup of tea for double the price does not fly, however.

 

[johntea]

I bet someone has in the past tried taking on board a travel kettle and a pint of milk with some teabags / coffee! Would also need a few bottles of water I suppose!

 

[MG11]

Why write them the other way around then? Just to make it more confusing?

Tell me, when you walk into a shop do you think: "Wow, I can't believe they're selling 150g of crisps for 89p, that's crazy I really wish they would sell them at around twice that price as I would be fundamentally happy to pay it, and maybe they could redecorate this shop with the proceeds."

This is not conventional consumer behavior.

I never wrote them the other way around, on both occasions, I said from Walker's to Tyrrell's....

 

[LLivery]

A small bottle of water is almost £2 on EMT when I can go to Waitrose for a larger bottle for 35p. Before I do any InterCity journey from St Pancras/King's Cross I pop into the Waitrose around the corner and pick up some food and drink. Good quality, better range and lower prices. Not to mention the array of Coffee shops with a wide range of choice in the stations. The only time I buy anything onboard is if I didn't have time to buy a drink before and I'm absolutely gasping/not feeling great. I've even had a member of staff apologise for the mad price of water once; simply raising prices to increase revenue would never work. Often people already feel like the fare is too much, higher food/drink prices would just end up with people refusing, like a lot already do.

 

[Mugby]

It was £2 for a cup of tea from the trolley on VTEC the other day. I'm not sure how much higher you can go for a cup of tea before people will simply just not buy anything at all from the trolley (or buffet for that matter).

Exactly.

I sat behind a chap recently one morning who bought a coffee and a pot of instant porridge (the type supermarkets sell for about 50p)
The total cost was £5.30. which shocked me. I'd rather go without than pay that much!

 

[fowler9]

If people are willing to shop in Waitrose before getting on the train they aren't going to be willing to pay more than the trolley already charges.

 

[takno]

[

Does the convenience of having a drink served on board not contradict the lack of ambience though? Remember as well, that usually, the RG host gives a (plastic) glass to drink out of, just like in a bar. Bars in London can easily exceed £5 for a drink, last boxing day, I paid £5.10 for a beer in a bar near Barbican. But, even up north, drinks can be around the £5 mark, the bar at the Double Tree Manchester charges £5 for a beer. These prices make RG's £3.30 price (last time I checked) look a little cheap. Someone in another thread said they see RG sell can after can of ale, so surely if they bumped it up to around £4.50, given the high amounts of alcohol sales, it could pay for a wage increase for staff and also an increase in profit margin? Or, am I missing something here?

In a bar I'm paying for the experience of sitting in a nice bar drinking the beer, and for having it well-kept and delivered at the right temperature from a tap. The fact that these justify paying a high price, and that this high price covers the cost of the staff isn't even secondary in my mind.

On a train I've already paid to be there, so the experience element is out even if it was a pleasant environment. In practice I'm also getting a small lukewarm can or bottle of whatever tat they deign to sell, which is rarely even my 5th choice cooking lager. The price per pint is often north of 4 quid anyway. Every ounce of convenience and goodwill is already more than priced in

 

[onlinespotting]

Moderator note: split from Rail gourmet, how does it work?

Could staffing issues not be solved with a price increase on the products on the trolley?

People pay more for drinks in bars because of increased staffing costs, so why not onboard trains?

This wouldn't resolve the points on TPE and XC network (and others) where it is nigh impossible to get the trolleys down the aisle , what are we paying extra for? A warm Stella for the price of 4 cool ones from the station supermarket/off licence or a tea you'll burn yourself more with than drink cos it's so busy?

 

[Bromley boy]

[

Does the convenience of having a drink served on board not contradict the lack of ambience though? Remember as well, that usually, the RG host gives a (plastic) glass to drink out of, just like in a bar. Bars in London can easily exceed £5 for a drink, last boxing day, I paid £5.10 for a beer in a bar near Barbican. But, even up north, drinks can be around the £5 mark, the bar at the Double Tree Manchester charges £5 for a beer. These prices make RG's £3.30 price (last time I checked) look a little cheap. Someone in another thread said they see RG sell can after can of ale, so surely if they bumped it up to around £4.50, given the high amounts of alcohol sales, it could pay for a wage increase for staff and also an increase in profit margin? Or, am I missing something here?

I really think you’re barking up the wrong tree with this one. Don’t forget bars have a captive market - if you could take your own cheaply bought booze in to drink people would!

The fact many TOCs (especially in the southern region) are reducing on train catering should tell you something. That’s a sure fire sign that it isn’t turning a profit. There’s no way employing a member of staff specifically to serve a few ropey sandwiches and overpriced cups of tea is going to generate enough revenue to cover their costs and generate enough profit to cover unrelated staffing costs.

I think consumer habits have changed. People are a lot more demanding and are more savvy than in years gone by. Who on earth is going to walk past M&S at Victoria, selling 4 nicely chilled lagers for £5/£6 and wait for a trolley (which may or may not come) to pay £4 for a can of warm Stella!?

 

[DarloRich]

Well, this silly idea should end on train catering in a trice.

 

[route:oxford]

Exactly.

I sat behind a chap recently one morning who bought a coffee and a pot of instant porridge (the type supermarkets sell for about 50p)
The total cost was £5.30. which shocked me. I'd rather go without than pay that much!

It all depends on your income, taste and lifestyle choices.

For me the issue wouldn't be the £5.30, it would be the fact that the water from a trolley would never hot enough to make the porridge to my preferred consistency (turn upside down in the bowl and not a drop fall out after one minute has passed) or to scald me drinking the coffee.

 

[Bromley boy]

I can't stress enough that this is not how business pricing works. Higher prices do not always result in higher revenue. Let's say they take your advice and increase the price of a 90g chocolate bar to £10. How many do you think they will sell and what will the effect on revenue be?

It's a question of "how much are people willing to pay?", the customer's "top price". I think in some cases, as mentioned earlier, RG & similar operations, have met the top price. But, in many cases, I don't think they have reached their full potential, pricing wise.

I think the contrast between the above posts illustrates the point you are missing.

If you increase prices some people may still be willing to buy, but many will not. Whether increasing prices increases your profits is the “price elasticity of demand” calculation that businesses undertake in order to work out whether it makes sense to increase prices.

What you need to consider is why you believe that, by increasing prices, RG can increase its profits. Keep in mind RG will have employed experts who know the market and will have undertaken extensive analysis.

 

[PR1Berske]

Could staffing issues not be solved with a price increase on the products on the trolley?

People pay more for drinks in bars because of increased staffing costs, so why not onboard trains?

Little change from a tenner for a bag of crisps and two warm cans is quite enough, really.

 

[theblackwatch]

The price off trolleys is already above what I am prepared to pay, so I don't think they're going to make any more money out of me! In fact, I'd rather they trolley were ditched, as all they do is get in the way when trying to do things like go to the toilet etc... Oh, and they cater for people who are unable to plan ahead

 

[yorkie]

I never wrote them the other way around, on both occasions, I said from Walker's to Tyrrell's....

Not quote. You said "to Tyrrell's crisps from Walker's"; while I am sure you didn't deliberately try to trip people up, there is no sensible or logical reason to put the "to" before the "from". It's just downright confusing.

You see that sometimes with rail fares in the fares advice section and I find it confusing and frustrating to see.

The price off trolleys is already above what I am prepared to pay, so I don't think they're going to make any more money out of me! In fact, I'd rather they trolley were ditched, as all they do is get in the way when trying to do things like go to the toilet etc... Oh, and they cater for people who are unable to plan ahead

Same here except I'd say some, such as Scotrail trolleys on the rural lines, are worth keeping as the journey times are quite long on trains that otherwise have no catering and they are reasonably priced and have some decent stuff. But most trolleys are a waste of space! ​