Apologies as I thought you were suggesting the train was being dispatched whilst people were boarding.
They are encouraging people to move faster, not commit crime.
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People boarding before everyone has alighted
- Thread starter SquireBev
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Apologies as I thought you were suggesting the train was being dispatched whilst people were boarding.
They are encouraging people to move faster, not commit crime.
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R
RailUK Forums
Going to become a railway vigilante?
It was a joke, but seriously what was the point.
The people they need to encourage are the people on the train, but how are they going to hear the whistle!
No. People just need to be better mannered. There are plenty of announcements stating to let people off before boarding.
Passengers behave disgracefully towards each other and act rather sheep like when boarding and alighting. Those behaviors need to change.
If you need a whistle to tell you to board effectively or an announcement to encourage you to act respectfully, then, quite frankly, your doing it wrong.
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
What I have encountered is when I've actually got on the train and still in the vestibule, somebody who has suddenly come to and realised where they are and has had to start gathering their bags together and then makes a dash for the door to alight sometimes several other passengers who they blocked in come following behind.
GW43125
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Happens throughout SWT metro. On more than one occasion I've had to stand half in the train to stop the doors closing because the guard has decided to shut the doors whilst people are still getting off, let alone having a chance to get on. Bring back the slammers etc.
xotGD
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Perhaps we could have a system where the door at one end of the carriage is for getting on while the door at the other end is for getting off? Wouldn't work with doors at thirds however.
Nobody was getting off ineffectively, it is simply everyone in that one carriage gets off at Stevenage.
But even if those onboard were acting ineffectively whilst those wanting to board were waiting politely on platform, how does blowing a whistle they can't hear help?
Southern just give a certain amount of time and just activate the doors. Last Thursday evening the door alarm sounded as there were still 3 to go before me to get off. I just managed to jump through without having to forcibly hold the door open. It’s no surprise therefore that boarding passengers try and get on early.
satisnek
Member
I've seen all sorts of random people board a train before others have alighted, but groups of young 'alpha male' types, with or without cans of lager, are a dead cert. On one occasion there were several people in front of me waiting to alight at Kidderminster and one of these groups (is there a more suitable collective noun?) crowded around the door outside as the train came to a stand, so I called out, "Don't let them on until we've all got off!" My fellow passengers did, of course. Sheep. If I'm the first at the door to alight, I'll always stand in the centre of the doorway nowadays.
But if you want a surefire way of being let off the train first, then the trick is to travel with a bike. Never seems to fail. Trouble is, everyone bringing their bike on the train ain't gonna work...
But if you want a surefire way of being let off the train first, then the trick is to travel with a bike. Never seems to fail. Trouble is, everyone bringing their bike on the train ain't gonna work...
Kite159
Veteran Member
I saw a perfect example of this behaviour this afternoon, witnessed someone barge their way onto a service at New Street against the large passenger flow of passengers alighting, to then stand in the aisle blocking it when he sorted his bag out to sit in the first available seat (the carriage at this point was less than a third full with the train due to sit there for a good 5 minutes).
A couple of the busiest evening peak King's Cross-Cambridge trains work on short-ish turnround times (worked off inward passenger services) an have 'interesting' boarding manners as a result.
I just stand back, let everyone else have the scrum, then board at leisure afterwards. Not worth getting worked up/competitive about it - ticket to an early grave if nothing else. Always seats left (though I prefer a window, in winter I particularly don't care). Alpha Males *always* at the front of the scrum.
As I found last week, I tried to stand back in the vistibule to give space for an older gentleman to get off (don't he was steady enough to stand up before the train stopped). Cue fellow boarders just walking around me preventing him getting off even longer. I made a point of loudly apologising to him that so few passengers apparently having actual manners.
Another pet peeve is people who make a big point of getting on first....then sit in the aisle seats!
I just stand back, let everyone else have the scrum, then board at leisure afterwards. Not worth getting worked up/competitive about it - ticket to an early grave if nothing else. Always seats left (though I prefer a window, in winter I particularly don't care). Alpha Males *always* at the front of the scrum.
As I found last week, I tried to stand back in the vistibule to give space for an older gentleman to get off (don't he was steady enough to stand up before the train stopped). Cue fellow boarders just walking around me preventing him getting off even longer. I made a point of loudly apologising to him that so few passengers apparently having actual manners.
Another pet peeve is people who make a big point of getting on first....then sit in the aisle seats!
Shaming people into compliance seems to be the only way to get anything done these days, but now of course people fight back by trying to deflect the blame away from themselves and becoming the victim!
Blowing the whistle is to 'hustle' people and I doubt the CD would be given until most or all people were on (when I say most, I mean that there's a belief that by the time the driver acts on the CD and the hustle alarm goes, they'll be on), so that was probably a good thing to hurry people up.
I'm assuming the doors didn't actually close before people were on? Imagine if the whistle hadn't been blown? You'd have people casually walking up to board, and a few people seeing the queue at their door and deciding to walk on a coach or two and get on there instead.
In fact, you already get this at stations like King's Cross where the whistle is being blown at 20 seconds and then again at 30 or 40 seconds past, and staff are shouting 'get on the first set of doors' but, no, they decide to walk down. In these cases I have seen the CD being given and the person not getting on, then kicking off, but that's quite rare.
DelW
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Boarding a late-running train at Guildford last Wednesday, the platform departure boards were showing "Please stand clear, this train is ready to depart" before the doors had even opened. That only encourages passengers to worry that the doors will close again before they've had a chance to get on.
SquireBev
Member
Which is exactly what happened last night. My assertive "You might want to let us all off first!" was met with a torrent of abuse from people in the crowd, and one bloke started having a go at me for raising my voice in front of his kids!
I just wish I thought that trying to shame people into behaving properly would actually convince them to behave differently in future, but instead they'll carry on thinking they're doing nothing wrong and that it's those few of us who speak up that are the problem.
I did once manage to stop a group of eager commuters pushing on by alighting patiently, in my own time, and carrying a 7ft inflatable shark... but I imagine I could achieve the same effect with some sort of pitchfork, or perhaps a cattle prod
Yup, and that's the same if someone drives like an idiot. Call them out on it, and they go into a rage. Or in fact anything, like jumping a queue in a shop as another example.
I assume people who are very quick to 'fight back' do so because they were prepared for it, as they knew damn well what they were doing. Oh, and they probably have a quick response because it happens to them all the time.
The whistle achieved nothing (apart from being irritating).
The carriage was emptying normally (as I mentioned before, a large number of people in that particular carriage get off at Stevenage).
There were half a dozen people waiting patiently to get on and before they can (as there are still people getting off), the whistle is being blown, apparently to "hustle" people to get on.
It seems you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.
XCTurbostar
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Hardly Cosher xD I guess it’s just something I can bit** at the other commuters about.
I don't see a problem with using a whistle to let people know the train is ready to go, especially as it doesn't in itself mean the doors are closing. It's quite effective to let people know the train is now ready (or due) to depart. It also helps with people who turn up late and then argue that it left early, or the doors were closed on them without warning.
The other day at Stevenage I did see something a little amusing. A man approached a 387 and the doors closed (climate control timed closure) and he got angry and started banging at the side of the train. Meanwhile other doors were still open. He walked down cursing and went by an open door! How he couldn't see there were other doors open is beyond me. He then walked away, the whistle was blown, CD/RA and off the train went.
I wonder if he was straight on to Twitter to complain?!
bramling
Veteran Member
I suppose it wouldn't be too hard to avoid this by boarding at Finsbury Park, if the incoming service stops there. Quite legitimate on a season ticket, although I guess there would be the risk of some kind of reformation at King's Cross. I'm sure I remember reading on here that this is, or was, a common practice for Crowborough passengers on morning Uckfield-London services.
As for King's Cross, in older times it used to be the case that services wouldn't be advertised until after the incoming service had arrived, except for very short turnrounds. This changed a few years ago, and it's been a bit of a nuisance ever since. They now have a habit of putting the next service on the board just as the incoming train is arriving into the platform, so those getting off get greeted with people trying to board plus a crowd of people surging down the platform. On the narrow platform 10/11 this can become quite a hazard, if you have a service imminently departing from platform 10 (or, worse, platform 10A), at the same time as a busy train arrives on 11 and its outgoing service is put up. People for three separate services all using a narrow island platform. The sort of thing that will, unfortunately, only change when/if something goes wrong and some kind of incident occurs.
bramling
Veteran Member
Yep, sums it up perfectly.
There is a hardcore if ignorant arrogant people whose sole focus in life is me, me, me - nothing else. Most people have better natures so naturally avoid arguing back, which unfortunately serves to add to the hardcore's confidence, as their approach generally serves to give them what they want. Natural justice does come from time to time though on occasions when they *don't* get their own way for whatever reason - this tends to be met with some real proper displays of toys being thrown out of prams.
bramling
Veteran Member
One does wonder how many people actually know what the whistle means nowadays?
Even the most forceful announcements tend to have limited effect in my experience. There is one thing which does work though, the hustle alarm. On some LU trains it's possible to sound the door chimes early by pressing the close button on the wrong side. Not something that one would do on mainline trains though, do the lack of CSDE and the risk of inadvertently pressing the open buttons.
But the train wasn't ready to depart!
The customers on the train hadn't all got off and the customers waiting for them had not got on.
When that had happened, then it would be ready to depart.
trainophile
Established Member
That's a bit radical isn't it, rail staff considering the needs of the passengers? (Only joking, before I get slammed.)
There's little point waiting until everyone has sorted themselves out to blow the whistle, and the train is now 2 minutes late.
Whistles are blown at King's Cross nearly a minute before the departure time, to get people to hurry up (and it mostly works, as people do step up the pace or get on the nearest set of doors*). It also alerts people who might be at the local coffee kiosk on the platform to get a move on, or those coming onto the platform.
In this case, the whistle didn't mean anyone was at risk of the doors being shut on them. The dispatcher would still wait before the CD, and certainly wouldn't be doing the RA until people were clear IF any were left behind or arrived late trying to get on.
* Some people are more casual, noting the time and knowing when the doors really will close. That's fine, as these people are less likely a problem anyway.
bussnapperwm
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Same here and it's wonderful when I'm taking relatives who are 5'3" to Birmingham...
...especially at Snow Hill station at Rush Hour and in Birmingham markets!
If they did that in Birmingham they'd need at least a thousand just to cover one island platform at New Street! Especially with all the different lengths, stopping positions and door styles
I’ve been in Manchester today. Some disruption on the Metrolink this evening saw some very busy trans and platforms.
At every station we called at between Deansgate Castlefield and Victoria saw people barging on before anyone had even got off. At Victoria it was particularly bad which was where I was getting off. I ended up having to be very assertive to get off the tram.
Never seen anything like it, at least in London passengers generally play by the rules.
At every station we called at between Deansgate Castlefield and Victoria saw people barging on before anyone had even got off. At Victoria it was particularly bad which was where I was getting off. I ended up having to be very assertive to get off the tram.
Never seen anything like it, at least in London passengers generally play by the rules.
There's a lot of self-righteousness on this thread.
Its right that people should wait for the bulk of people to de-train before getting on,that is etiquette. But if people on the train are dilly-dallying, then people will get on the train before they are off.
Its right that people should wait for the bulk of people to de-train before getting on,that is etiquette. But if people on the train are dilly-dallying, then people will get on the train before they are off.
bramling
Veteran Member
I've noticed there's a big difference in London between weekdays and weekends. *Much* more common to see squabbles in London at weekends -- and not just on trains. Just seen a massive row in the metro Sainsbury's just down the road from here over the queue arrangements for a self-service till. Works perfectly well in the week, then someone unfamiliar turns up and seems to think everything revolves around them.
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