Wales & Borders Franchise Consultation

[Gareth Marston]

Why the hell are we talking about 4tph when on a Sunday we essentially have 0.5tph? Surely increasing that to an actual decent service would be a quick easy win for the new franchise?

ATW are doing an experimental extra services on the Cynon Valley on Sundays leading up to Xmas this year.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Though there's a lot to be said for a clockface pattern, that would pretty much halve the southbound frequency from Church Stretton and Craven Arms to Ludlow and Hereford, from (roughly) hourly to 1tp2h.

You've got to bite the bullet somewhere at least they'll get an hourly clock-face service north to Shrewsbury and Crewe.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Chancellor today announced more money for infrastructure and transport funding, amounting to £1.2 billion for Wales.
He also mentioned "city deals" for North Wales and Mid Wales which should focus on local infrastructure, in the same way as the Cardiff deal links into the South Wales Metro project.
No doubt the Welsh Office/WG will spell out what all this means locally.
This isn't just for rail, of course.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The Chancellor today announced more money for infrastructure and transport funding, amounting to £1.2 billion for Wales.
He also mentioned "city deals" for North Wales and Mid Wales which should focus on local infrastructure, in the same way as the Cardiff deal links into the South Wales Metro project.
No doubt the Welsh Office/WG will spell out what all this means locally.
This isn't just for rail, of course.

There's been the usual moaning from Welsh Labour about it not being enough but no detail.

 

[CardiffKid]

The Chancellor today announced more money for infrastructure and transport funding, amounting to £1.2 billion for Wales.

£1.2b over four years...

 

[gareth950]

The Chancellor today announced more money for infrastructure and transport funding, amounting to £1.2 billion for Wales.
He also mentioned "city deals" for North Wales and Mid Wales which should focus on local infrastructure, in the same way as the Cardiff deal links into the South Wales Metro project.
No doubt the Welsh Office/WG will spell out what all this means locally.
This isn't just for rail, of course.

That £1.2bn could be spent on anything in Wales. It could all go to the NHS. The Barnett Formula doesn't specify where the money must be spent. And as Paul Harding has said, it's over 4 years.

 

[Bletchleyite]

All ringfencing is pointless anyway, as you can always direct any other non-ringfenced funding away.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

You've got to bite the bullet somewhere

You have, but Church Stretton and Craven Arms are already suffering from the Welsh Government and ATW biting the bullet and revising the HOWL timetable to their disadvantage. They can't be the punchbags for every single service revision.

...oh wait, they're not in Wales, of course they can.

 

[WelshBluebird]

ATW are doing an experimental extra services on the Cynon Valley on Sundays leading up to Xmas this year.

Just saw their marketing for it. An hourly service for less than half the day on one line, so basically just a handful of extra services. Really not good enough IMO, not in these days. The valleys deserve an actual decent Sunday service.

 

[Gareth Marston]

You have, but Church Stretton and Craven Arms are already suffering from the Welsh Government and ATW biting the bullet and revising the HOWL timetable to their disadvantage. They can't be the punchbags for every single service revision.

...oh wait, they're not in Wales, of course they can.

Whats your alternative then? bearing in mind stopping the Manchester trains there will turn then into all shacks instead of Regional Express services.

Going back to my post #1627
Extend the Regional service that terminates at Hereford to Crewe and cut back the Heart of Wales to terminate at Shrewsbury?

 

[Gareth Marston]

from http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-42081159

Mr Hammond's Budget also announced plans for rail lines to be upgraded to allow direct services between Pembroke Dock and London via Carmarthen on the new Intercity Express trains.

The Department for Transport will continue to develop proposal for other rail schemes, budget documents said, including "station improvements at Cardiff Central station and Swansea, improving Cardiff to Severn Tunnel Junction Relief Lines, and improving journey times between: Swansea and Cardiff; South Wales, Bristol and London; and on the North Wales Main Line".

"The government will also consider proposals to improve journey times on the Wrexham-Bidston line and provide necessary funding to develop the business case," it added.

Essentially a load of wish wash and a very expensive piece of pork barrel politics unnecessary infrastructure spend on Narberth Tunnel to keep Pembrokeshire voting Tory.

 

[gareth950]

from http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-42081159
Essentially a load of wish wash and a very expensive piece of pork barrel politics unnecessary infrastructure spend on Narberth Tunnel to keep Pembrokeshire voting Tory.

So money can be found to upgrade Narbeth tunnel to try to save Stephen Crabb, whose majority plummeted from around 5,000 to approx 300 in May, yet no money can be found to electrify between Labour held constituencies between Cardiff and Swansea. Right.................

 

[Dai Corner]

So money can be found to upgrade Narbeth tunnel to try to save Stephen Crabb, yet no money can be found to electrify between Labour held constituencies between Cardiff and Swansea. Right.................

Well the Welsh Government could use some of the £1.2bn they'll get. I agree the Narbeth tunnel is of dubious value though.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Well the Welsh Government could use some of the £1.2bn they'll get. I agree the Narbeth tunnel is of dubious value though.

We'll find out where Welsh Labour's priorities really lie.

 

[PR1Berske]

Whats your alternative then? bearing in mind stopping the Manchester trains there will turn then into all shacks instead of Regional Express services.

Going back to my post #1627
Extend the Regional service that terminates at Hereford to Crewe and cut back the Heart of Wales to terminate at Shrewsbury?

It's called Wales & Borders, so places on the border should not be left with bare bones without good justification

 

[Chester1]

If Holyhead has 4tpd to London why not have some GWR services to meet Pembroke and Fishguard services? Presumably GWR services to Pembroke Dock will be 5 coaches splitting and joining in Swansea?

 

[Gareth Marston]

It's called Wales & Borders, so places on the border should not be left with bare bones without good justification

Please read post #1627. There's no pointless north to South Wales trains. Nantwich and Whitchurch are linked every hour to Manchester as well as there being an hourly stopping service between Crewe and Shrewsbury. South of Shrewsbury Church Stretton and Craven Arms have an hourly service to Shrewsbury but a two hourly one southwards. Ludlow and Leominster have the hourly regional express plus an extra train every two hours.

 

[PHILIPE]

If Holyhead has 4tpd to London why not have some GWR services to meet Pembroke and Fishguard services? Presumably GWR services to Pembroke Dock will be 5 coaches splitting and joining in Swansea?

GWR (or FGW) used to run to Fishguard and Milford Haven but pulled out.

 

[craigybagel]

If Holyhead has 4tpd to London why not have some GWR services to meet Pembroke and Fishguard services? Presumably GWR services to Pembroke Dock will be 5 coaches splitting and joining in Swansea?

2 reasons - first of all, traffic is much, much greater on the Dublin ferry routes then through Rosslare. Secondly, whilst the connection from ferry to train at Fishguard is seemless, like two trains on either side of an island platform - at Pembroke Dock it's a decent walk, not at all convenient.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

If Holyhead has 4tpd to London why not have some GWR services to meet Pembroke and Fishguard services? Presumably GWR services to Pembroke Dock will be 5 coaches splitting and joining in Swansea?

Holyhead has 6 trains per day to London not 4

 

[daodao]

Surely, what its needed is a shuttle bus service between Heath Halt and Heath Hospital along with the provision of a hard paved footpath connecting these two points with the shortest possible route? An add on fee of say 50p return could be added to the train ticket to provide the bus link. Why are the Welsh Government/ Transport for Wales not organising this now along with a similar bus link from Cogan station to Llandough Hospital? It seems to me that the only organisation showing any initiative is NAT Buses who have pioneered new cross city routes which Cardiff Bus are now copying to some extent having previously been all for people changing in the city centre.

The whole Heath area is swamped with cars during the working week as poorly paid hospital staff dump their cars wherever it is free to park. A rail link from Coryton to either Radyr (for a circle line) or Taffs Well would provide a vital link with the Taff valley for connection to Heath Halt. Any deviating / additional stops on the fast rail route from Heath Halt to Queen Street will make the Coryton branch (& Rhymney line) less attractive to commuters.

I see that many on this forum are speculating on services and types of trains needed. Are we just talking to ourselves? Does anybody with power actually read this stuff?

Here is a map showing the Hospital and Heath Halt stations for those who are not familiar with the area. (Traffic flows on the roads have been enabled and will be live at the time you click the map).
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5102943,-3.186299,1524m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!17m1!1e1!5m1!1e1

A bus link between Heath Halts and UHW was tried many years ago but withdrawn because of lack of patronage. It would be of little use except to connect to trains to the Rhymney Valley, and even then, there is a direct bus every 30 minutes from UHW to Caerphilly. It is only a 30 minute walk from UHW to Whitchurch station, so would be of little use to connect to the Coryton branch.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Here's the new Stadler Regional Product the WINK - probably no coming to Wales or the Borders but we can dream..

http://www.stadlerrail.com/en/products/detail/wink/

WINK
The WINK – a German acronym which stands for convertible, innovative short train for local transport – is a two-car multiple unit train for secondary lines. The low-floor multiple unit carries an accessible central "PowerPack" containing components for energy generation, traction elements and auxiliary systems. With the WINK, Stadler is offering a regional train that is suitable for immediate zero emissions operation.

The WINK is a low-floor single-level regional train. The fully accessible drive unit is located between the two cars. This has the advantage of offering an extremely flexible drive solution. The following can be envisaged: DMU with diesel, DMU with HVO, BMU as diesel with batteries, electric with a battery solution or even fuel cells. The WINK can transport up to 275 people, with seats for around 150. Depending on the model, it can reach maximum speeds of up to 160 km/h.

The WINK was presented for the first time in 2017. Stadler received its first order for the WINK from Arriva Netherlands in November 2017, for trains to be put into operation in Friesland and Groningen from 2020.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Good job they didn't mis-spell that...you have a bit of a FLIRT, then a KISS, then if it doesn't go well you go home and........sorry!

I guess that brings the GTW up to date - some have said it didn't meet crashworthiness requirements in some places, not to mention the need for a silly name!

 

[Gareth Marston]

Good job they didn't mis-spell that...you have a bit of a FLIRT, then a KISS, then if it doesn't go well you go home and........sorry!

I guess that brings the GTW up to date - some have said it didn't meet crashworthiness requirements in some places, not to mention the need for a silly name!

I don't suppose anyone would give a T*$^ what there called if they were bought to work Regional* services in Wales and Borders.

* as opposed to Regional Express or Metro.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Nowt wrong with Stadler units for most Welsh work. Welsh train services by and large (except the longer distance stuff) are very similar in concept to the Swiss rural S-Bahn concept, which is almost uniquely worked using Stadler FLIRTs (or older units refurbed to look like them) these days, and they are very well suited.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Whats your alternative then? bearing in mind stopping the Manchester trains there will turn then into all shacks instead of Regional Express services.

Going back to my post #1627
Extend the Regional service that terminates at Hereford to Crewe

Absolutely - I think there's a strong case for an hourly stopper from Hereford to Crewe (and have posted that here before).

That way, Ludlow and Leominster would be served by this stopper and a few additional stops in the express services; Craven Arms and Church Stretton by this stopper and the occasional HOWL.

I'm not particularly familiar with the line south of Hereford (I've used it to Abergavenny a few times, but not regularly) so won't pronounce on what you do south of there, but if a stopper were to run there then absolutely, it would make sense to combine the two.

 

[Mintona]

I’ve heard that the new West Midlands franchise is pushing Network Rail for paths to either extend their current Hereford stoppers to Cardiff, or to run a new Worcester - Gloucester - Cardiff service.

Via the former route could solve some southern Marches problems.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I’ve heard that the new West Midlands franchise is pushing Network Rail for paths to either extend their current Hereford stoppers to Cardiff, or to run a new Worcester - Gloucester - Cardiff service.

Via the former route could solve some southern Marches problems.

Imagine the thumb sucking it would cause if they couldn't find any paths for an hourly Holyhead to Cardiff train because of it.....

 

[Bletchleyite]

Much more use than an hourly Holyhead to Cardiff train which is a political construct that will be used by almost nobody for through journeys.

 

[iantherev]

Bearing in mind that Abergavenny is about to become one of my potential railheads, a service to Birmingham would be much more useful than one to Holyhead.