ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[Highland37]

just what is your refernce to sectarianism, please expand i am interestred

Poorly informed, annoyed that not everyone takes the same British nationalist view of the world and so on.

Back on topic, has there been *any* information on the 20/6/no idea number of bike spaces?

I started a new job in Aviemore yesterday and have just been turned away from the suburban 170 when trying to take my bike.

 

[Altnabreac]

Poorly informed, annoyed that not everyone takes the same British nationalist view of the world and so on.

Back on topic, has there been *any* information on the 20/6/no idea number of bike spaces?

I started a new job in Aviemore yesterday and have just been turned away from the suburban 170 when trying to take my bike.

Nothing really. It's a fairly simple fix to add more bike space as they could convert more of the disused toilet spaces into bike areas as the current plans have 2 disused toilets locked out in the four coach version and an additional one could be converted to bike storage.

The equation is those additional conversion costs versus the operational cost of allowing bike access to the power cars at some of the larger intermediate stations (Perth, Dundee, Aviemore).

 

[route101]

I haven't been anywhere near a HST since they were re-engined, and I only have YouTube clips to go by, but aren't they much quieter now than they used to be when they had the Valentas fitted? I very much doubt that noise will be an issue. There are enough people who moan about the drone of the 170s on this forum, so I guess there's no pleasing some.

Pity they weren't still fitted with Valentas - that'd really give them something to complain about

They sound pretty dull now , no screaming like they used to

 

[Blindtraveler]

There's a certain irony in a blind person complaining that the door alarms are too loud!

Which is not lost on me!

Im sure Iv said this elsewhere but my ideal combination of volume, tone and pitch is the 395. Hoping the the AT200s/300s/IEPS will be similar.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's a certain irony in a blind person complaining that the door alarms are too loud!

That there is, but it does show they clearly haven't been properly tested on the target market! (Unless I suppose they are aimed at deaf(ish)blind people).

 

[Highland37]

Nothing really. It's a fairly simple fix to add more bike space as they could convert more of the disused toilet spaces into bike areas as the current plans have 2 disused toilets locked out in the four coach version and an additional one could be converted to bike storage.

The equation is those additional conversion costs versus the operational cost of allowing bike access to the power cars at some of the larger intermediate stations (Perth, Dundee, Aviemore).

That is my reading also but Scotrail seem very cagey on this. They announced the additional bike spaces with great fanfare but have done nothing but back track since then.

 

[JohnR]

That is my reading also but Scotrail seem very cagey on this. They announced the additional bike spaces with great fanfare but have done nothing but back track since then.

A lot of people feel that it would be a lot easier to get the right number of Bike spaces installed from the start, rather than having to try to retro-fit them.

 

[jingsmonty]

A lot of people feel that it would be a lot easier to get the right number of Bike spaces installed from the start, rather than having to try to retro-fit them.

Completely - also, seem to remember a big deal being made about space to carry other bulky sports equipment, such as Skis...important for those who travel to Aviemore for the winter sports

 

[DarloRich]

Technically, yes.

HSTs aren't the quietest beasts in the world. Scottish local authorities have issued noise abatement orders to rail operators before.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-33242863

One daytime train a day is considerably different to the early to late night HST operations that will be happening.

Pulling away on an (uphill) gradient may be a touch less nippy than hoped for.

they sound like buses now. They aren't loud anymore.

Already people on Twitter complaining about the trains not being new.

It's going to take a huge effort to convince people that it's a basically a case of Trigger's broom.

SNP wibble showing massive shoulder chips. They are old but good quality trains that will improve the service for passengers on these lines.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I was talking to a moany old woman on the bus today, the kind of person who deliberatly sits next to someone so they can grumble non stop! This lady, with a definat highlands twang was whittering on about how she had just come from Carbridge on a rattling little train with doors everywhere so the rain came in and with only 3 coaches, obviously a 170!

She then went on about how the new 40 year old trains would doubtlessly be worse and how it was shocking that people got neglected this way. She soon stopped winjing when I said that I knew a bit about railways and that the new trains would not let in the rain, would have more seats and be nicer inside, failing to mention my own view they will be to short and after saying all this she didnt have an answer so went rather quiet lol!

Perhaps we should ask TS/Scotrail to keep the 170s, refurbish with 3 plus 2 ironing bords and supplement with X Merseytravel Pacers?

 

[Northhighland]

The HST's will win people over. they are miles better than the 170's and will have extra capacity. It will work fine if Scotrail get the delivery and implementation right, get the ticket pricing right and sort out the catering, which on Scotrail is better than Virgin East coast. So they should manage that.

There is a feeling in the Highlands that transport investment over the last 10 years in Scotland has been disproportionally centred around the central belt. That feeling is quite strong. Will dissipate though when the HST's start to work, providing they are reliable, which they should be if overhauled properly. Cant afford the same issues as with the Caledonian Sleeper service. But lessons will have been learned.

 

[Clansman]

I was talking to a moany old woman on the bus today, the kind of person who deliberatly sits next to someone so they can grumble non stop! This lady, with a definat highlands twang was whittering on about how she had just come from Carbridge on a rattling little train with doors everywhere so the rain came in and with only 3 coaches, obviously a 170!

She then went on about how the new 40 year old trains would doubtlessly be worse and how it was shocking that people got neglected this way. She soon stopped winjing when I said that I knew a bit about railways and that the new trains would not let in the rain, would have more seats and be nicer inside, failing to mention my own view they will be to short and after saying all this she didnt have an answer so went rather quiet lol!

Perhaps we should ask TS/Scotrail to keep the 170s, refurbish with 3 plus 2 ironing bords and supplement with X Merseytravel Pacers?

She sounds like the type of person who'll no doubt find something to complain about even when the HSTs start operating.

 

[xotGD]

She sounds like the type of person who'll no doubt find something to complain about even when the HSTs start operating.

Quite rightly too - she could have been enjoying a rake of Mark 5s with a 68 on the end.

 

[Darandio]

Quite rightly too - she could have been enjoying a rake of Mark 5s with a 68 on the end.

Ah, I take it they are very nice to travel on compared to a Mk3? I haven't had the chance yet.....

 

[najaB]

Quite rightly too - she could have been enjoying a rake of Mark 5s with a 68 on the end.

There's nothing to say that Mk5's are going to be objectively better than refurbished Mk3's and I'd rather two power cars over one locomotive.

 

[47802]

The HST's will win people over. they are miles better than the 170's and will have extra capacity. It will work fine if Scotrail get the delivery and implementation right, get the ticket pricing right and sort out the catering, which on Scotrail is better than Virgin East coast. So they should manage that.

There is a feeling in the Highlands that transport investment over the last 10 years in Scotland has been disproportionally centred around the central belt. That feeling is quite strong. Will dissipate though when the HST's start to work, providing they are reliable, which they should be if overhauled properly. Cant afford the same issues as with the Caledonian Sleeper service. But lessons will have been learned.

Well each to there own I find 170's to be reasonably comfortable if lacking capacity, there are certainly trains I like less to travel on eg 390, 22x and 180 aside from the obvious Northern Junk like Pacers, but anyway yes HST's are comfortable to travel on I wouldn't disagree with that, although some of the lesser refurbished examples are really showing their age, obviously the GWR HST's were substancially refurbished and will be refurbished further with Scotrail, have relatively modern engines so as long as they are reliable they should be OK although whether they should last until 2030 might be pushing it a bit.

 

[najaB]

...although whether they should last until 2030 might be pushing it a bit.

I can't see why. Much like the Ship of Theseus, for the most part they are 40 years old in name only.

 

[Highland37]

The HST's will win people over. they are miles better than the 170's and will have extra capacity. It will work fine if Scotrail get the delivery and implementation right, get the ticket pricing right and sort out the catering, which on Scotrail is better than Virgin East coast. So they should manage that.

There is a feeling in the Highlands that transport investment over the last 10 years in Scotland has been disproportionally centred around the central belt. That feeling is quite strong. Will dissipate though when the HST's start to work, providing they are reliable, which they should be if overhauled properly. Cant afford the same issues as with the Caledonian Sleeper service. But lessons will have been learned.

I really think you are on and off the mark there. The HSTs will win people over, agreed. As I waited for the HST at Aviemore tonight a 170 to Edinburgh pulled in. The standard practice of people moving bags around was apparent as there isn't enough space. When I boarded the HST, it was like a different world. Far too bright though.

On your second point (There is a feeling in the Highlands that transport investment over the last 10 years in Scotland has been disproportionally centred around the central belt), I have to disagree that this feeling is widespread outside of the the SNPbaaad brigade and also that it is true.

When I arrived in Inverness, off the HST, it was slightly amusing to see the 67 stillllllll on the sleeper...

 

[MML]

I was talking to a moany old woman on the bus today, the kind of person who deliberatly sits next to someone so they can grumble non stop! This lady, with a definat highlands twang was whittering on about how she had just come from Carbridge on a rattling little train with doors everywhere so the rain came in and with only 3 coaches, obviously a 170!

She then went on about how the new 40 year old trains would doubtlessly be worse and how it was shocking that people got neglected this way. She soon stopped winjing when I said that I knew a bit about railways and that the new trains would not let in the rain, would have more seats and be nicer inside, failing to mention my own view they will be to short and after saying all this she didnt have an answer so went rather quiet lol!

Perhaps we should ask TS/Scotrail to keep the 170s, refurbish with 3 plus 2 ironing bords and supplement with X Merseytravel Pacers?

She wasn't power dressed with a shoulder padded suit and looking the spitting image of Jimmy Crankey was she ? She's always moaning. :roll:

 

[Blindtraveler]

Sorry dont know due to my site impairment, what I do know is she stank of wee!

 

[Grinner]

SNP wibble showing massive shoulder chips. They are old but good quality trains that will improve the service for passengers on these lines.

The SNP government signed off on the HSTs; the wibble will be coming from supporters of other parties. But lets try and keep politics out of this please?

 

[JohnR]

The SNP government signed off on the HSTs; the wibble will be coming from supporters of other parties. But lets try and keep politics out of this please?

I dont think there has been any such gripes on the age of the trains from the other parties. Just ill-informed media guff.

I for one welcome the HSTs, and look forward to them, albeit with some reservations regarding service patterns and bike space, and I'm most definitely a "support of other parties".

 

[Highland37]

The SNP government signed off on the HSTs; the wibble will be coming from supporters of other parties. But lets try and keep politics out of this please?

Is that possible? The continual digs from various people, who seem to need it themselves, mean politics and real politics play a significant part.

All thus guff about trouser suited Jimmy Krankie etc, sectarianism, SNP signed off X, etc is just guff from people who can't abide the SNP, particularly that they have out performed every other party in Scotland.

Imagine Ruth and her merry band of nationalists were in charge. Think you would get anything like the investment in rail? Nae chance.

The "central belt gets all the money" argument is also not supported by the facts. There are many areas in the central belt that have a greater need for investment (outside rail) than the Highlands.

 

[jingsmonty]

Quite rightly too - she could have been enjoying a rake of Mark 5s with a 68 on the end.

She would have had more time to enjoy them too - no way a Class68 & Mk5 rake could accelerate/climb gradients like a 4+2/5+2 HST!

 

[DarloRich]

The SNP government signed off on the HSTs; the wibble will be coming from supporters of other parties. But lets try and keep politics out of this please?

of course they did. It is a sensible option to provide intercity style services and accommodation on long distance internal routes and boost capacity on the cheap. It is their supporters who see these trains as poor quality, aged, cast offs and interpret that as some kind of slight on the might of Scotland.

 

[Highland37]

of course they did. It is a sensible option to provide intercity style services and accommodation on long distance internal routes and boost capacity on the cheap. It is their supporters who see these trains as poor quality, aged, cast offs and interpret that as some kind of slight on the might of Scotland.

You really are talking complete gibberish. Who are these people you speak of?

 

[DarloRich]

You really are talking complete gibberish. Who are these people you speak of?

well i could just take you to the pub near my mums house. Very Braveheart/SNP......................

EDIT - it is worth pointing out that the more sensible commentators are very pleased to have proper intercity trains back working in Scotland and think that the 125 will be a step up on the current little trains used on routes like Glasgow to Inverness

 

[Blindtraveler]

It is certainly a dividing issue amongst SNP supporters and I speek as someone who knows a good many of them from both camps.

The sinics (which I am 1 although not an SNP supporter in any way) say that actually the only reason they are bothering to do anything about internal IC rail is to accommodate the tourists, something which is demonstrated to a point in the seating layout howerver this does to a point fall flat on the shambolic bike policy we all know and love.



I think however that perhaps this thread is not the place for this kinda discussion so I will attempt to bring it back to topic by asking if anyone knows has testing/training is going? Is the set still in Aberdeen? I take it the next one is already at Doncaster or is due shortly?

 

[najaB]

As already posted, can we keep this thread about trains please?

 

[Clansman]

I think however that perhaps this thread is not the place for this kinda discussion so I will attempt to bring it back to topic by asking if anyone knows has testing/training is going? Is the set still in Aberdeen? I take it the next one is already at Doncaster or is due shortly?

Further driver training is expected to happen in January, with the first refurbished set due up here in February.