ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[ainsworth74]

The last few GWR HSTs I've travelled in Standard the power has been built into the front of the seat, between the seats, a bit like SE High Speed. I'd assumed that this would be retained.

Only in airline seats (where it does work very well as it avoids any issues when strangers are sat next to each other and the person in the aisle needs the socket!) at tables the socket are as described by with sockets over the table.

 

[47271]

Only in airline seats (where it does work very well as it avoids any issues when strangers are sat next to each other and the person in the aisle needs the socket!) at tables the socket are as described by with sockets over the table.

That makes sense, probably one in fifty of my GWR Standard trips would be at a table for obvious dismal reasons, so I would only know about the airline setup. Thank goodness Scotrail's sorting that one out.

 

[380101]

Will the refurb fix the issues of creaking from the couplers when starting off? This is a common issue on the VTEC HSTs.

I like the look of the interiors but would prefer the standard Scotrail outside livery.

The "Spotrail" livery doesn't work well on LHCS as the doors are at the end of the coaches where the spotty saltire would go. The HST livery is going to be far better looking that the increasingly old looking spotted saltire livery (almost 10 years old now). The Driver training HST moves to Aberdeen this week to commence the training programme. It will have a promotional vinyl wrap on the 2 power cars and the 2 coaches behind the power cars. middle 2 coaches to remain in First group blue until the rake go for refurb/power door fitment.

 

[43096]

middle 2 coaches to remain in First group blue until the rake go for refurb/power door fitment.

The coaches from that set which will initially be refurbed are already at Doncaster, as they were dropped off when the set went north. The 4 vehicles in Scotland will either not get a refurb (TGS and TRFB) or may possibly be later in the programme.

 

[Blindtraveler]

If the HsT paint job is a success I wonder if it will be adopted as new standard livery and roled out over time as units are repainted or replaced?

 

[43096]

If the HsT paint job is a success I wonder if it will be adopted as new standard livery and roled out over time as units are repainted or replaced?

Why not just stick with the current Saltire scheme? What is it with the railway that they have to fiddle with things that work? Seems to be a job creation scheme for designers who need some more sticky-back plastic to scribble on.

 

[Clansman]

If the HsT paint job is a success I wonder if it will be adopted as new standard livery and roled out over time as units are repainted or replaced?

It won't as the HST livery is supposed to be unique to the rest of the fleet given it's meant to be perceived as an Intercity image.

Also, given its 10 years on from the rollout of the Saltire livery and it's still being applied to the fleet to this day, I can't imagine ScotRail would want to go through 10 years of exterior refurbishment again - which also defeats the purpose of standardising the Saltire branding in the first place.

 

[Chris125]

It won't as the HST livery is supposed to be unique to the rest of the fleet given it's meant to be perceived as an Intercity image.

They could've gone with a variation of the current scheme, perhaps reversed colours on the trailers - different while still consistent with the overall Scotrail brand. A completely separate livery is bizarre IMO.

 

[Clansman]

They could've gone with a variation of the current scheme, perhaps reversed colours on the trailers - different while still consistent with the overall Scotrail brand. A completely separate livery is bizarre IMO.

They could've, but they've got no reason to do it and no benefit from doing so other than money that could've been better invested elsewhere.

A completely separate livery is bizarre IMO.

Each to their own, but I think ScotRail & Transport Scotland have done bloody well. They've spotted an opportunity to provide Intercity travel, and have gone the extra miles to ensure that it's an astounding success on all fronts, including marketing.

 

[jingsmonty]

The pitch looks decent to me.

Looks like a typical modern train seat - too upright & too flat on the base. Can seat designer & tocs not realise that people want to RELAX for a train journey & not sit in the crash position?

In fairness, it's an artists impression ( I hope.)

 

[Altnabreac]

They could've gone with a variation of the current scheme, perhaps reversed colours on the trailers - different while still consistent with the overall Scotrail brand. A completely separate livery is bizarre IMO.

I was at the talk on HST introduction and they did consider using the Saltire livery as there is no requirement to use a separate brand in the Franchise Agreement.

But there was a strong consensus from Scotrail and Transport Scotland that a new livery would better reflect the high quality environment and service that is starting and give the whole subbrand a more distinct feel. The landmark silhouettes look like they're going to be excellent.

The whole project is looking really good.

 

[380101]

Why not just stick with the current Saltire scheme? What is it with the railway that they have to fiddle with things that work? Seems to be a job creation scheme for designers who need some more sticky-back plastic to scribble on.

This is the HST livery that will be used. The grey will be a bit lighter in reality.

 

[snakeeyes]

It's a shame that the driver training trips can't be used by passengers.

 

[380101]

It's a shame that the driver training trips can't be used by passengers.

I hardly think it's a good idea to have it in service whilst training drivers on it who have never driven HSTs before.

 

[47802]

Well everybody seems to be going into orgasm about these trains but lets see what the refurb is like and how well they work in practice, when I travel on an HST these yes they are more comfortable than most newer stock in many ways but I see a clapped old train that's past its use by date whatever the refurbishment inside, then there is the re engineering of the doors, re engineering of old trains seems to be having mixed results of late. I guess the fact that there are 2 power cars should help and the engines are only mid life but I doubt they will last 20 years as some people suggest and the next franchise will more than likely need to look for a replacement which going to be a very heavy loading with the majority of Scotrail's Sprinters coming up for renewal as well.

As an aside I have always found Scotrail 170's reasonably comfortable but just lacking in capacity in some cases while the benefit of replacing 15+ year old trains with 40+ year old ones remains to be seen.

 

[clc]

As an aside I have always found Scotrail 170's reasonably comfortable but just lacking in capacity in some cases while the benefit of replacing 15+ year old trains with 40+ year old ones remains to be seen.

I went from Glasgow to Inverness on a 170 once. After 3 hours of engine drone and vibration I said id never do it again and I haven't. Driving is preferable to making the journey on a 170 but HST might tempt me out of my car.

 

[43096]

View attachment 34939



This is the HST livery that will be used. The grey will be a bit lighter in reality.

Are they refitting Valentas as well as the old headlights???!!!

 

[Northhighland]

I went from Glasgow to Inverness on a 170 once. After 3 hours of engine drone and vibration I said id never do it again and I haven't. Driving is preferable to making the journey on a 170 but HST might tempt me out of my car.

Know the feeling do it twice a month minimum. But the three hours of driving each way which is lost time puts me off the car, prefer the work time on the train.

Looking forward to the HST use east coast whenever I can so much better than the 170.

 

[Clansman]

The set current in Craigentinny is due to head up to Clayhills depot in Aberdeen tomorrow.

Here's the schedule

 

[signallerscot]

That's a schedule, not a diagram...

 

[Clansman]

That's a schedule, not a diagram...

Cheers for the correction :roll:

 

[Marklund]

Tthey could've, but they've got no reason to do it and no benefit from doing so other than money that could've been better invested elsewhere.

If you'd remember back, (or ask your parent/guardian/spouse that you get your information from) to when the franchise was announced, the HST renders were done in the Spotted Saltire.

Spending more money elsewhere is exactly what they have done...

 

[380101]

Are they refitting Valentas as well as the old headlights???!!!

I very much doubt it! I note your sarcasm in your comment. This digital image will have been done by a graphic designer that most likely doesn't know a thing about trains - especially their headlights!

There seems to be alot of negativity on this forum surrounding Scotrails choice of refurbished HSTs. Yes they are old trains, but it's a very cost effective way of quickly upgrading their intercity services and will be much welcomed by staff and passengers alike. They'll be gone by 2030 and replaced with new build stock that will be better than any Voyager that some people reckon they should have went for.

I think the HSTs will be a success for Scotrail and I'm rather gutted I will not get to drive them. Maybe we'll get some nice new DMUs for the GSW/Stranraer routes in the next franchise to replace the awful 156s.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I reckon in 10 years' time Stadler would do something very nice based on the Gotthardbahn units.

 

[Clansman]

Spending more money elsewhere is exactly what they have done...

Of course they have - and done so it in the right places. In the context of the initial idea of standardising the HST livery across the ScotRail fleet, surely it's not the best use of resources to do so, giving we are only just nearing the conclusion of a fleet wide relivery program which has taken 10 years to get through.

 

[TimboM]

Apologies if already posted somewhere else, but not seen it. RAIL have this morning published the list of power cars planned to be cascaded from GWR to Scotrail, quoting Angel Trains as the source.

http://www.railmagazine.com/news/fleet/hst-cascade-plan-for-scotrail

Power cars
43132 43021
43148 43033
43036 43134
43143 43146
43037 43126
43163 43135
43179 43012
43169 43183
43168 43032
43140 43149
43145 43127
43003 43142
43031 43152
43142 43026
43128 43125
43151 43035
43182 43138
43164 43150
43139 43130
43133 43136
43129 43028
43175 43124
43176 43177
43147 43181
43137 43131
43015 43030
43144 43034
Source: Angel Trains

 

[Marklund]

Of course they have - and done so it in the right places. In the context of the initial idea of standardising the HST livery across the ScotRail fleet, surely it's not the best use of resources to do so, giving we are only just nearing the conclusion of a fleet wide relivery program which has taken 10 years to get through.

The standardisation of Spots across the HST fleet, which was already shown in many renders, was done. Spending money needlessly on a different livery for the HST is wasteful.

 

[47802]

I went from Glasgow to Inverness on a 170 once. After 3 hours of engine drone and vibration I said id never do it again and I haven't. Driving is preferable to making the journey on a 170 but HST might tempt me out of my car.

Well each to their own, when BR brought out their sprinter fleet I didn't particularly like the underfloor mounted engines but over the years Ive got used to it and it doesn't bother me these days given the majority of trains I travel on have it and ive always found 170's to be one of the more quieter DMU's for engine noise yes some do rattle a bit which can be annoying at times.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well each to their own, when BR brought out their sprinter fleet I didn't particularly like the underfloor mounted engines but over the years Ive got used to it and it doesn't bother me these days given the majority of trains I travel on have it and ive always found 170's to be one of the more quieter DMU's for engine noise yes some do rattle a bit which can be annoying at times.

The only significant problems I find with 170s are that they are too short and that the build quality is poor (so lots of rattles, non-functioning internal doors etc).

 

[TimboM]

Planned cascade list resorted in numerical order (reading down each column in turn):

43003 43124 43138 43151
43012 43125 43139 43152
43015 43126 43140 43163
43021 43127 43142 43164
43026 43128 43142 43168
43028 43129 43143 43169
43030 43130 43144 43175
43031 43131 43145 43176
43032 43132 43146 43177
43033 43133 43147 43179
43034 43134 43148 43181
43035 43135 43149 43182
43036 43136 43150 43183
43037 43137