This is poor reporting - even by RMT standards

[northwichcat]

I thought the RMT blaming the plan for DOO on Merseyrail on the Dutch government was bad but now they have said the Chinese will take profits from a rail franchise which no Chinese company is involved in!

RMT ON WATERLOO THIS MORNING

General Secretary Mick Cash said;

"RMT's engineering members have worked flat out against the clock in an effort to hit punishing schedules to deliver the wholesale re-modelling of Waterloo on time. It was always going to be a massive challenge and the men and women who have battled against the odds at the sharp end deserve nothing but praise.

"However, let's be clear, the financial beneficiaries of all this effort and public investment are the new Chinese owners of South Western Trains who will be able to cream off even fatter profits from longer and more frequent services without stumping up a penny piece for the new infra-structure costs.

"That makes it even more scandalous that First MTR don't even have the decency to promise the travelling public a safety-critical guard on their new trains. This company are benefiting big time from the British taxpayer and they should be forced to give a guarantee on safety and access and that means honouring the long-standing agreement with RMT to retain the guard on South Western Trains."

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-on-waterloo-this-morning/

 

[Agent_Squash]

Hong Kong is officially a Chinese territory; but I guess the RMT is now going against infrastructure investment that will affect Waterloo for many decades, not just during First/MTR.

 

[goblinuser]

I'm pretty sure MTR is a large government operator in Hong Kong, so they aren't wrong.

 

[daikilo]

I thought the RMT blaming the plan for DOO on Merseyrail on the Dutch government was bad but now they have said the Chinese will take profits from a rail franchise which no Chinese company is involved in!

Well, MTR is Hong Kong based and Hong Kong is again Chinese! In addition, I do wish they would get over the fact that we have for-profit TOCs operating the trains and have had for 2 decades now.

 

[jon0844]

RMT's engineering members have worked flat out against the clock in an effort to hit punishing schedules to deliver the wholesale re-modelling of Waterloo on time. It was always going to be a massive challenge and the men and women who have battled against the odds at the sharp end deserve nothing but praise.

It wasn't done on time was it? It was late, such that signalling tests were late?

But whatever the specifics, why would the RMT issue a release that starts off positive about its members and then undermine everything by going off on a rant?

 

[northwichcat]

Well, MTR is Hong Kong based and Hong Kong is again Chinese! In addition, I do wish they would get over the fact that we have for-profit TOCs operating the trains and have had for 2 decades now.

1. MTR aren't owners of the new franchise, they are a minority shareholder of the new franchise owned by First Group, who are registered as a Scottish company. Maybe, using the RMT's logic, the objection should be about the Scottish getting the benefit of the hard work of those London based Network Rail employees? Of course in reality the Scottish aren't specifically benefiting, except for possibly a small number of Scottish shareholders.
2. According to a report on BBC News only last Saturday Hong Kong is still run independently from China with it's own government but the intention is for it to be properly absorbed in to China in the future.

 

[alastair]

I thought the RMT blaming the plan for DOO on Merseyrail on the Dutch government was bad but now they have said the Chinese will take profits from a rail franchise which no Chinese company is involved in!



https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-on-waterloo-this-morning/

Actually, as has already been said, MTR is registered in Hong Kong which is an administrative region of China so difficult to say they are not Chinese?

Otherwise it's up to normal RMT press release standards, conveniently forgetting that First is the main shareholder and even inventing a new title South Western Trains, is that a combination of SWT and SWR?

Most unusually, there is no mention of either Basket Cases or Fat Cats!

 

[whoosh]

Silly RMT, I do wish they'd shut up.

"...without stumping up a penny piece for the New infrastructure costs."

So...they don't pay track access charges then?



Yes let's have it publically owned so the newspapers can bang on about rail workers inflated wages being paid for by the taxpayer, that'll put us in a better position.


Think things through, and shut up.

 

[AlterEgo]

It wasn't done on time was it? It was late, such that signalling tests were late?

But whatever the specifics, why would the RMT issue a release that starts off positive about its members and then undermine everything by going off on a rant?

Because ordinary hard working people are the salt of the earth, until they work too hard and too well at work and get promoted to management, whereupon they become the scum of the earth. RMT logic - absolute hatstands, the lot of them.

 

[jon0844]

So what does that make a well-paid leader of a union, who is basically management?!

 

[Clip]

So what does that make a well-paid leader of a union, who is basically management?!

He gets voted in to that position by his members as General Secretary not a manager.

 

[AlterEgo]

So what does that make a well-paid leader of a union, who is basically management?!

Exactly.

 

[Bromley boy]

I thought the RMT blaming the plan for DOO on Merseyrail on the Dutch government was bad but now they have said the Chinese will take profits from a rail franchise which no Chinese company is involved in!



https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-on-waterloo-this-morning/

Yes indeed, pretty dire stuff.

Im sure many commentators on here, and the public at large, believe the RMT have a good point in relation to keeping guards on trains - sadly that point is once again lost amid extremist rhetoric. They do their members no favours at all with this kind of output.

They really should employ some press officers with the media savvy to help shape their message. That would go a very, very long way to helping their cause.

 

[GWRtom]

Well, MTR is Hong Kong based and Hong Kong is again Chinese! In addition, I do wish they would get over the fact that we have for-profit TOCs operating the trains and have had for 2 decades now.

But the majority of the population in HK, as low as 3.1% in the 18-29 age range - do not consider themselves culturally Chinese. Nor do a sizeable percentage recognize the legitimacy of the PRC's rule.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-anniversary-idUSKBN19B1IE

To refer To HK as "Chinese", undermines the population's right to self-determination & self rule.

 

[coxxy]

Regardless of who owns the franchise and what is happening within the franchise it's just a classic case or the RMT trying to hijack the media in to getting their point across..

They really are making themselves look silly nowadays..

 

[pdeaves]

Im sure many commentators on here, and the public at large, believe the RMT have a good point in relation to keeping guards on trains

The RMT wants to go back to British Rail, the company that first introduced DOO...!

 

[jon0844]

And would keep pay down.

 

[Wombat]

Most unusually, there is no mention of either Basket Cases or Fat Cats!

Or "bosses", "negotiated settlement" or even "get back round the table". Has anyone bothered to create an "RMT bingo" drinking game?

 

[Bald Rick]

I often wonder if Government (albeit not this one) should call the RMT out, by committing to 'renationalise' the franchises, ie bring them back into government ownership, but only on condition of a no-strike deal. At a stroke it would put an end to frankly stupid press releases like this. And also stop strikes!

 

[Bromley boy]

The RMT wants to go back to British Rail, the company that first introduced DOO...!

Yes that's true, although I doubt that particular aspect of BR is what they have in mind when wishing to renationalise!

I think the oft stated desire for renationalistion is more of a default political position than something they genuinely see as benefiting staff. Certainly my understanding is that pay and conditions have improved no end since BR (I'm far to young to have worked under BR so do not have a personal view on this).

Personally I think they are too political in their outlook and their message would be much more effective if they pushed the safety and particularly customer service aspect of the guards' role, rather than making esoteric political comments which will be lost on most people.

 

[bb21]

But the majority of the population in HK, as low as 3.1% in the 18-29 age range - do not consider themselves culturally Chinese. Nor do a sizeable percentage recognize the legitimacy of the PRC's rule.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-anniversary-idUSKBN19B1IE

To refer To HK as "Chinese", undermines the population's right to self-determination & self rule.

Whether they like it or not, HK is part of China, and Chinese rule is legitimate by any stretch of imagination. It was the case historically, and it is the case now.

If they don't want to be a part of that, they can bugger off wherever they want to go. The world is their oyster.

I am sure they will be missed. :roll:

As for "do not consider themselves culturally Chinese", perhaps they should give up the Chinese language they use on a day-to-day basis. Until then, it is a laughable statement.

 

[OuterDistant]

I'm sure Mick Cash is turning into Donald Trump, i.e. he can't say anything to the media without it turning into a stream of consciousness-based rant.

 

[al78]

Whether they like it or not, HK is part of China, and Chinese rule is legitimate by any stretch of imagination. It was the case historically, and it is the case now.

If they don't want to be a part of that, they can bugger off wherever they want to go. The world is their oyster.

I am sure they will be missed. :roll:

As for "do not consider themselves culturally Chinese", perhaps they should give up the Chinese language they use on a day-to-day basis. Until then, it is a laughable statement.

A grossly over simplistic and rather antagonistic attitude.

How do you know people can simply "bugger off", do you know anything about them or their life circumstances? Should anyone in the UK bugger off if they find something about the government to complain about? Perhaps everyone should just roll over like passive lapdogs, yes sir no sir anything you say sir let me kiss your backside sir, please sir. :roll:

People have always, and will always complain about things they don't like, get used to it.

 

[CeeJ]

Whether they like it or not, HK is part of China, and Chinese rule is legitimate by any stretch of imagination. It was the case historically, and it is the case now.

If they don't want to be a part of that, they can bugger off wherever they want to go. The world is their oyster.

I am sure they will be missed. :roll:

As for "do not consider themselves culturally Chinese", perhaps they should give up the Chinese language they use on a day-to-day basis. Until then, it is a laughable statement.

Yeah, let's kick out the parts of the population who don't like the Chinese Communist Party's repeated infringements of their historic rights to freedom of speech, press and assembly! I'm sure that those who originally fled Communist rule would love that. :roll:

The 'Chinese' language they speak being Cantonese, which the PRC wants to eradicate and replace with Mandarin.

 

[northwichcat]

Im sure many commentators on here, and the public at large, believe the RMT have a good point in relation to keeping guards on trains - sadly that point is once again lost amid extremist rhetoric. They do their members no favours at all with this kind of output.

They can't even get that right

RMT General Secretary Mick Cash said,

“Currently, under the terms of their own operating licence – agreed with the rail regulator – Northern Rail have to comply with their commitment to older and disabled passengers that there will be a Conductor on every train.

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-warning-over-northern-staffing-plans/

The commitment to allow disabled passengers to travel on any service doesn't automatically mean a guard has to be provided, especially considering the franchise agreement doesn't require them to have a guard on every service. Also, he's fallen in to the trap of automatically presuming that a disabled passenger is always one who needs assistance boarding and alighting. Do the guards all know sign language so they can communicate with a deaf passenger? If not a visual CIS is much more useful to a deaf passenger than a guard.

A local newspaper reported Mick Cash as saying tomorrow's strike is over the 'sheer intransigence of Arriva Rail North' without giving any further clarification. No mention of guards, new trains or anything else relevant to the reasons behind the strike.

 

[BestWestern]

Yes indeed, pretty dire stuff.

Im sure many commentators on here, and the public at large, believe the RMT have a good point in relation to keeping guards on trains - sadly that point is once again lost amid extremist rhetoric. They do their members no favours at all with this kind of output.

They really should employ some press officers with the media savvy to help shape their message. That would go a very, very long way to helping their cause.

Yup. And they've been told that many times, including by the membership. Sadly, they won't have it.

 

[BestWestern]

Do the guards all know sign language so they can communicate with a deaf passenger? If not a visual CIS is much more useful to a deaf passenger than a guard.

Whilst your point that disabilities are never 'one size fits all' is, of course, absolutely valid, I have to suggest that visual CIS (or PIS when it's onboard) is frequently of no use to anyone, as the current quality of it is all to often absolutely dire.

 

[The Ham]

Or "bosses", "negotiated settlement" or even "get back round the table". Has anyone bothered to create an "RMT bingo" drinking game?

Yes, but their liver packed up after a few days...

 

[The Ham]

I thought the RMT blaming the plan for DOO on Merseyrail on the Dutch government was bad but now they have said the Chinese will take profits from a rail franchise which no Chinese company is involved in!

RMT ON WATERLOO THIS MORNING

General Secretary Mick Cash said;

"RMT's engineering members have worked flat out against the clock in an effort to hit punishing schedules to deliver the wholesale re-modelling of Waterloo on time. It was always going to be a massive challenge and the men and women who have battled against the odds at the sharp end deserve nothing but praise.

"However, let's be clear, the financial beneficiaries of all this effort and public investment are the new Chinese owners of South Western Trains who will be able to cream off even fatter profits from longer and more frequent services without stumping up a penny piece for the new infra-structure costs.

"That makes it even more scandalous that First MTR don't even have the decency to promise the travelling public a safety-critical guard on their new trains. This company are benefiting big time from the British taxpayer and they should be forced to give a guarantee on safety and access and that means honouring the long-standing agreement with RMT to retain the guard on South Western Trains."

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-on-waterloo-this-morning/

I personally will give a guarantee that every South Western Trains service will have a guard during the lifetime of the South Western Railways franchise, in fact I am fairly sure that First MTR would be more than happy to do the same. Probably so happy to do so they will promise to have a guard in every single unit (i.e. 2 in a 10 coach train formed of two 444's) run by South Western Trains during the lifetime of the South Western Railways franchise.

They may even say, "Why stop there we promise to...."

 

[Moonshot]

Yes that's true, although I doubt that particular aspect of BR is what they have in mind when wishing to renationalise!

I think the oft stated desire for renationalistion is more of a default political position than something they genuinely see as benefiting staff. Certainly my understanding is that pay and conditions have improved no end since BR (I'm far to young to have worked under BR so do not have a personal view on this).

Personally I think they are too political in their outlook and their message would be much more effective if they pushed the safety and particularly customer service aspect of the guards' role, rather than making esoteric political comments which will be lost on most people.

I have a view since I am traincrew.....and its true. Absolute no doubt that staff are far better off doing the job under private sector franchises.