December 2017 Timetable

[Y Ddraig Coch]

What you mean about 'gets them back'? They currently exist.

Today's (weekday) ATW workings to the Airport: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...8/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=AW

Tomorrow's (Saturday) workings to the Airport: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...9/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=AW

I clearly wrongly thought they had vanished at the May timetable.

A few times in the last month or two I have had to change to get to the airport and assumed they (ATW ) had lost their airport slots. Maybe it was just the times I was travelling or a temporary change.

 

[notlob.divad]

I see the 319 operated Northern routes now have "timings for 319 EMU at 100mph" in the technical details rather than still having "Pacer / Class 150/153/155/156 DMU at 75 mph" descriptions. However when I compare the actual journey times, they seem to be slower than currently. (Only a minute here and a minute there).

Are these the final timings of these services, or will they be 'improved' again at the April timetable change / when the Liverpool Lime Street upgrade is complete.

 

[johntea]

An early (in more ways than one! )extra service on the Harrogate line by the looks starting this week

From Leeds an additional train will depart from 6.23am and arrive at 6.50am in Harrogate. The second will depart from Harrogate at 6.59am and arrive at Leeds shortly after 7.25am.

Not quite sure what you would do in Harrogate at 6:50am, suppose the main point of it is to get people into Leeds before 7:30am more than anything.

 

[xotGD]

An early (in more ways than one! )extra service on the Harrogate line by the looks starting this week

From Leeds an additional train will depart from 6.23am and arrive at 6.50am in Harrogate. The second will depart from Harrogate at 6.59am and arrive at Leeds shortly after 7.25am.

Not quite sure what you would do in Harrogate at 6:50am, suppose the main point of it is to get people into Leeds before 7:30am more than anything.

Betty's Tea Room opens at 9:00, so only a 130 minute fester.

 

[Eboordna]

Shortly to be some additional Sunday services added between Manchester & Scotland. Details TBC.

 

[30907]

An early (in more ways than one! )extra service on the Harrogate line by the looks starting this week

From Leeds an additional train will depart from 6.23am and arrive at 6.50am in Harrogate. The second will depart from Harrogate at 6.59am and arrive at Leeds shortly after 7.25am.

Not quite sure what you would do in Harrogate at 6:50am, suppose the main point of it is to get people into Leeds before 7:30am more than anything.

Fills a long gap in the service and conects into the Skipton-London. Presumably worked in marginal time.

 

[mikestone1952]

Fills a long gap in the service and conects into the Skipton-London. Presumably worked in marginal time.

Despite the press statement its actual arrival at 07.34 and thus doesn't connect into the Skipton-KGX. Would appear from RTT to work the 07.52 to Selby.
;
It appears to folllow what I assume is the sandite train, which of course isn't running, and so far has left Horsforth five minutes earlier than advertised, but was less early at Leeds.

 

[xotGD]

Despite the press statement its actual arrival at 07.34 and thus doesn't connect into the Skipton-KGX. Would appear from RTT to work the 07.52 to Selby.
;
It appears to folllow what I assume is the sandite train, which of course isn't running, and so far has left Horsforth five minutes earlier than advertised, but was less early at Leeds.

Arriving in P8, 07:40 to the Cross departs from P6 - easily doable connection, if not official.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Despite the press statement its actual arrival at 07.34 and thus doesn't connect into the Skipton-KGX. Would appear from RTT to work the 07.52 to Selby.
;
It appears to folllow what I assume is the sandite train, which of course isn't running, and so far has left Horsforth five minutes earlier than advertised, but was less early at Leeds.

I wonder if Network Rail care to explain exactly why a potentially useful passenger service is being compromised by a reserved path for the leaf-fall period? Total nonsense as usual, nothing else expected really.

 

[The Planner]

For the same reason the NMT has WTT paths, saves trying to find STP paths which may not be there. How do you suggest RHTT are dealt with?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

But why must the paths for the leaf fall period be reserved throughout the rest of the year when they're not needed!?! Many suburban routes have a leaf fall timetable of some sort so further autumn-only adjustments to accommodate such trains would hardly be out of place.

 

[northwichcat]

But why must the paths for the leaf fall period be reserved throughout the rest of the year when they're not needed!?! Many suburban routes have a leaf fall timetable of some sort so further autumn-only adjustments to accommodate such trains would hardly be out of place.

With Northern's Chester services they are timed to run in the same paths between Stockport and Manchester all year around but in leaf-fall season they leave Chester earlier and then if there's no leaf fall related problems they sit at Edgley Junction (the junction before they join the WCML) for a while, while in the opposite direction there's just padding added in between Mouldsworth and Chester so they'll arrive at Chester early if there's no issues. It's similar on the Buxton line as well.

 

[323235]

Well it appears from the stakeholders power point that the current Northern Manchester - Stoke Sunday service of 5 trains each way will persist until May 2018.

 

[The Planner]

But why must the paths for the leaf fall period be reserved throughout the rest of the year when they're not needed!?! Many suburban routes have a leaf fall timetable of some sort so further autumn-only adjustments to accommodate such trains would hardly be out of place.

What do you do with the train that cannot run for the period that the RHTT runs, or are you suggesting a re write for the period?

 

[northwichcat]

Well it appears from the stakeholders power point that the current Northern Manchester - Stoke Sunday service of 5 trains each way will persist until May 2018.

Northern have said it would be too complicated to recast Sunday 'South Manchester' services in December as well as doing a full recast next May, so Stoke, Chester, Hazel Grove/Buxton etc. will all remain the same.

 

[CheeseOnToast]

What do you do with the train that cannot run for the period that the RHTT runs, or are you suggesting a re write for the period?

Always been a tricky problem the RHTTs in the Dec timetable. Some RHTT paths are used by freight outside of Autumn, others double as Anti-icing paths and I've known these to be used throughout the December timetable into May. Some RHTTs run after the timetable change in December though not for very long. They can start late summer as well for shakedown runs and crew training. Then throughout the year they can be used by test trains and anything else running under STP.

They are awkward to plan and take a long time to do so, if they come out at the December timetable change then you have to start over and probably struggle to get them back in. Part D of the Network Code protects them to some extent and if it came to it I'm sure they are covered under Strategic Capacity and may have an entry in the National Timetable Planning Rules (I can't check at home as can't find them).

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

What do you do with the train that cannot run for the period that the RHTT runs, or are you suggesting a re write for the period?

I'm suggesting that for the 9-10 months of the year the RHTT does not run, the service in question could run earlier and make the connection at Leeds into the Skipton-Kings Cross that it was clearly intended to achieve. In the leaf fall period when RHTT path is required, it reverts to the path it is currently using.

 

[The Planner]

The TOC is quite within its rights to bid for that, if they do not then it isn't Network Rail's problem.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

How do you know that they didn't? If it's managed to leave Horsforth 5' early on the first occasion then that strongly suggests there is pathing time in the schedule for signal checks that were not encountered.

 

[Scotrail88]

Any indication of the new ScotRail timetable following electrification of Glas - Edin. Surely units freed up to increase some frequency in diesel routes aswell as the ‘training’ 380s returning for passenger use

 

[YorkshireBear]

I'm suggesting that for the 9-10 months of the year the RHTT does not run, the service in question could run earlier and make the connection at Leeds into the Skipton-Kings Cross that it was clearly intended to achieve. In the leaf fall period when RHTT path is required, it reverts to the path it is currently using.

So do we recast the timetable for autumn? Meaning passengers who are used to a connection no longer get one at all for two months?

 

[Frothy]

Any news on whether CrossCountry will be implementing its consulted timetable? They backed down from it after Humza Yousaf challenged them, but does this mean business as usual, i.e. the current timetable will continue?

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[Starmill]

It seems unlikely XC will carry on as now given the major changes they have floated.

Perhaps they will not remove the Aberdeen to Penzance but there were a lot of other changes proposed.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

So do we recast the timetable for autumn? Meaning passengers who are used to a connection no longer get one at all for two months?

As opposed to never getting a viable connection for the other 9-10 months of the year? What you suggest is pretty much what leaf fall timetables result in.

 

[YorkshireBear]

As opposed to never getting a viable connection for the other 9-10 months of the year? What you suggest is pretty much what leaf fall timetables result in.

Surely the answer is repath the RHTT rather than cancel it entirely? Leaf fall timetables are all well and good but they create lots of extra work, expense and confusion.

Of course if they would just cut all the trees down....

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Any news on whether CrossCountry will be implementing its consulted timetable? They backed down from it after Humza Yousaf challenged them, but does this mean business as usual, i.e. the current timetable will continue?

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I really don't want them to get rid of the daily Guildford service :cry::cry::cry:

It's my nearest XC station, I don't want to have to go all the way to Basingstoke!

 

[FenMan]

I really don't want them to get rid of the daily Guildford service :cry::cry::cry:

It's my nearest XC station, I don't want to have to go all the way to Basingstoke!

On the contrary, I would be very pleased if the XC path is taken up by GWR to provide NDL users with earlier direct connections to Heathrow, Paddington, Oxford, Bristol TM, Birmingham NS, Derby, Sheffield, York and Newcastle.

 

[harz99]

Great to see a boost to the service to Bish, just a pity there still isn't a later train back from Darlo.

Even bigger pity there still isn't a train from Darlington to Bishop from 1830 to 2030 despite the other earlier two hour gaps being filled.

I sort of understand the issues around providing later services after 2030 due I believe to Signaller hours on the branch not allowing for any extra time in the overall working day.

Also as far as I can see connections into main line services both north and south will still be abysmal on a Sunday morning from Bishop.

 

[D1009]

It seems unlikely XC will carry on as now given the major changes they have floated.

Perhaps they will not remove the Aberdeen to Penzance but there were a lot of other changes proposed.

I tend to disagree, I think we'd have heard more about the extensions of Manchester services to Exeter by now if they were going to happen in December.

 

[cactustwirly]

I really don't want them to get rid of the daily Guildford service :cry::cry::cry:

It's my nearest XC station, I don't want to have to go all the way to Basingstoke!

What about Reading?

The Guildford service is useless anyway, operating at the most inconvenient times.