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Huge fire in Grenfell Tower - West London

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Bromley boy

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People were holding flares, not chucking them at property/people/police. It's just a way of drawing attention to the protest.

Depending on the flares in question. Flare pistols are treated as firearms, I believe.

I expect the police have better things to do tbh, espescially on the hottest day of the year so far. What a waste of resources.
 
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RichmondCommu

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Yes, don't get me wrong there is no shortage of sympathy for the victims and those directly involved.

However, the political capital being made out of it appears to be heavily grating now. For people who own, manage and insure their own property the issue of the PM's actions simply lacks salience.

I'm alright Jack is the phrase that comes to mind here.
 

Dave1987

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Depending on the flares in question. Flare pistols are treated as firearms, I believe.

I expect the police have better things to do tbh, espescially on the hottest day of the year so far. What a waste of resources.

You are straying very close towards saying people are not allowed to protest against Government simply because it's the hottest day of the year and you believe the police have better things to do. Do you not believe in freedom of speech? Or is it simply because this is a protest you don't agree with? If people stay within the law they can protest as much as they want to.
 

Dave1987

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"I'm alright jack, having worked my ass off for it"

Is another phrase that springs to mind.

So what about those who work their arse off but are paid pittance for it so stand no chance of ever owning their own home?
 

Bromley boy

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You are straying very close towards saying people are not allowed to protest against Government simply because it's the hottest day of the year and you believe the police have better things to do. Do you not believe in freedom of speech? Or is it simply because this is a protest you don't agree with? If people stay within the law they can protest as much as they want to.

Straw man argument. I've not argued anything of the sort.

Re-read my posts.
 

Dave1987

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Straw man argument. I've not argued anything of the sort.

Re-read my posts.

I have. You seem to be hoping that they would create trouble so you could attack the principle of the protest. When they proved to be civil you have started attacking the principle of the protest making what I would call straw man arguments against it. I don't necessary agree with it but I'm ok with them protesting peacefully as much as they want to.
 

Bromley boy

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I have. You seem to be hoping that they would create trouble so you could attack the principle of the protest. When they proved to be civil you have started attacking the principle of the protest making what I would call straw man arguments against it. I don't necessary agree with it but I'm ok with them protesting peacefully as much as they want to.

Please quote the post where I "seem to be hoping" for a violent protest....

I'm off to enjoy the sunshine.
 

RichmondCommu

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"I'm alright jack, having worked my ass off for it"

Is another phrase that springs to mind.

I've worked my ass off for it too. So much so that I'm going home to a very smart house in a very smart post code. Paid for by my money, not an inheritance. However I certainly have a different attitude to those who have lost everything, including family members.
 
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Bromley boy

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I've worked my ass off for it too. So much so that I'm going home to a very smart house in a very smart post code. Paid for by my money, not an inheritance. However I certainly have a different attitude to those who have lost everything, including family members.

Good for you!
 

AlterEgo

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I see the BBC article has gone from "LUXURY FLATS FOUND FOR GRENFELL SURVIVORS" or similar to:

FLATS ACQUIRED FOR SURVIVORS

Sixty-eight social housing flats in Kensington, London, are to be made available to survivors of the Grenfell Tower fire, the government has said.
The one, two and three-bedroom flats are located in two blocks that stand alongside a large luxury development, where private homes go for up to £8.5m.


The death of journalism continues apace.
 

w0033944

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The Evening Standard reports that some who have flats in this luxury development are moaning about the effect of the new social residents on the value of their apartments:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/outrage-as-luxury-flat-residents-complain-rehomed-grenfell-families-will-lower-house-prices-a3570331.html
Luxury flat residents complain rehousing Grenfell families 'unfair'




Residents of a luxury housing block have been slammed online after complaining that the arrival of Grenfell Tower survivors will lead to a fall in property prices.

The Standard revealed on Wednesday that 68 “social housing" flats in the £2 billion Kensington Row scheme have been acquired to permanently house families from the nearby tower.

Communities Secretary Sajid Javid said: “Our priority is to get everyone who has lost their home permanently rehoused locally as soon as possible, so that they can begin to rebuild their lives.”

But several residents of the luxury complex, which features a gym, swimming pool and 24-hour concierge service that will be off limits to Grenfell families, complained the move was “unfair”

Some Grenfell Tower residents are to be re-homed in a £2bn luxury block

One woman, who bought her flat two years ago, told the Guardian: “We paid a lot of money to live here, and we worked hard for it.



Grenfell tower victims to be given flats in luxury £2bn block

“Now these people are going to come along, and they won’t even be paying the service charge.”

Another claimed the flats would end up being sub-let.

He told the paper: “I’m very sad that people have lost their homes, but there are a lot of people here who have bought flats and will now see the values drop.

“It will degrade things. And it opens up a can of worms in the housing market.”

However, others did agree with the move, complaining some of the flats were completely empty.

The comments, on the day inquests were opened into the deaths of five of the blaze victims, led to outrage online


Journalist Natalie Bloomer tweeted: “Rich people with so much sympathy for Grenfell survivors but god forbid they have to live near them.”

And student Vonnie Sandlan complained: “This is horrendous.

“Plenty of sympathy for the victims of Grenfell tower, until it comes to where they'll live.”

Another tweeter wrote: “Milk of human kindness, these people.

“I guess money always trumps humanity.”



The 68 flats have been purchased by the City of London Corporation in a deal brokered by the Homes and Communities Agency (HCA).

The newly built homes are in two affordable housing blocks are on a site where private homes are on offer from £1,575,000 to £8.5 million.

The Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG) said the "expectation is that these new properties will be offered as one of the options to permanently rehouse residents from Grenfell Tower".

Mr Javid said: "The residents of Grenfell Tower have been through some of the most harrowing and traumatic experiences imaginable and it is our duty to support them.”



Extra public money has been found to fit out the flats more quickly, and the developer has taken on more staff and relaxed working hours rules, the DCLG said, with the aim of having the homes ready by the end of July.



Eleanor Kelly, chief executive of Southwark Council and spokeswoman for the Grenfell Response Team, said: "Rehousing those residents affected by the Grenfell Tower fire as quickly as possible is our main priority, and I am pleased that a significant amount of housing has now been identified."

The announcement came after much anger from survivors and victims' families in the aftermath at the official response to the deadly blaze.

Last week, Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn called for empty homes near the scene of the fire in north Kensington to be requisitioned to house families.

An independent public advocate to help bereaved families after major disasters was announced in the Queen's Speech earlier on Wednesday.

The speech confirmed plans for a public inquiry into the tragedy and a new strategy for resilience in major disasters could include a Civil Disaster Reaction Taskforce to help at times of emergency, and an independent advocate will support those affected and help them at inquests.

After the speech Theresa May apologised for the failures by local and national government in responding to the Grenfell Tower fire.

Addressing the Commons on Wednesday, the Prime Minister said the initial support on the ground for families was "not good enough" with people lacking basic information about what they should do and where help was available.
 

AlterEgo

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If their property price is affected then I can certainly see why there are some grumblings.
 

Antman

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I wonder how they might feel if they had lost everything they own not to mention family members.

But they haven't so it's a rather moot point.

Wouldn't you be concerned about something that could affect the value of your smart house that you mentioned in an earlier posting?
 

RichmondCommu

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But they haven't so it's a rather moot point.

Wouldn't you be concerned about something that could affect the value of your smart house that you mentioned in an earlier posting?

No because I would still have my wife and my children.

Despite living under one of the Heathrow flight paths I'm not opposed to Heathrow expansion because I realise that it supports jobs close by to where we live.
 

Dai Corner

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James H

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But the flats in question were always going to be social housing. Didn't those complaining do their homework before buying?

They were possibly not going to all be social housing - some (perhaps most) of the 'affordable housing' in the development would have been shared ownership, affordable rent or other 'intermediate' housing tenures.

So using the new homes for Grenfell victims will probably alter the balance of people on different tenures living in the block(s).

Not that I have any sympathy for the snobs.
 
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gswindale

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Extra public money has been found to fit out the flats more quickly, and the developer has taken on more staff and relaxed working hours rules, the DCLG said, with the aim of having the homes ready by the end of July

Not entirely convinced this is the best course of action - surely taking a bit more time over the fit out to ensure compliance with all applicable regulations is better? As I'd be worried that with workers working quicker and for longer hours that the appropriate checks etc might be accidentally overlooked in the rush to complete things.
 

najaB

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As I'd be worried that with workers working quicker and for longer hours that the appropriate checks etc might be accidentally overlooked in the rush to complete things.
Given that other flats in the building are already occupied I doubt it's anything safety critical which needs to be done, likely just painting and decorating.
 

jon0844

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If their property price is affected then I can certainly see why there are some grumblings.

I can't see how it will, given the social housing was part of the development and was happening regardless. As such, they were going to be filled by someone.

But when I read what was in the ES, I did wonder if it was much like the other reports where comments weren't attributed to anyone in particular. Were residents really saying such things, or do we like to assume they were thinking this and so it's okay to embellish things a bit, or even outright lie, to continue stirring up this 'them and us' thing.

As with many disasters, people are often brought together and all signs are that the local community pulled together. So I wonder how true these reports are?
 

Tetchytyke

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If their property price is affected then I can certainly see why there are some grumblings.

Most of them are renting, so the property price makes no difference to them.

They're just people who didn't realise the development had affordable housing in it, and are cross that they might have to share a building (but not facilities or the main entrance) with poor people.
 

Dai Corner

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Most of them are renting, so the property price makes no difference to them.

They're just people who didn't realise the development had affordable housing in it, and are cross that they might have to share a building (but not facilities or the main entrance) with poor people.

If they're renting, they can easily move out if they don't like the idea of having former Grenfell Tower residents in the adjacent blocks (I don't think it's even the same building).
 

IanXC

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hardly a surprise. Typically poor Tory handing of relations with normal people is the reason why he has gone.

This is the Chief Executive of the Council rather than the leader. Chief Executives of Councils are politically sensitive posts, so any suggestion of political masters pulling strings would be very serious, and should be backed up by evidence.
 

DarloRich

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This is the Chief Executive of the Council rather than the leader. Chief Executives of Councils are politically sensitive posts, so any suggestion of political masters pulling strings would be very serious, and should be backed up by evidence.

My apologies. I assumed this was the council leader quitting
 
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