Cambridge North: Cambridge's new station

[TheDavibob]

The Cambridge/Kings Lynn fasts all stop at Waterbeach currently, so must be 4 carrages only

They are, the first four splitting off/reattaching at Cambridge, but this in itself wouldn't stop them stopping at Cambridge North.

As of next month, the Cambridge fasts (previously terminating there) will run to Ely via Cambridge North. This is the only GN service that will stop at Cambridge North initially, and goes walkies in rush hour.

 

[bramling]

As these presumably will be using 387s shortly which have SDO, couldn't 2x387 call at waterbeach using SDO ?

In theory, maybe, although you would have the rear unit hanging over the level crossing - which seems now to be deemed unacceptable, or at least undesirable.

Also, the services being extended to Ely are generally going to be a mix of 2x365 and 2x387 in the May timetable, although of course this may change in the future. If the desire was there, it may have been possible to design the diagrams so that a unit could be dropped at Cambridge for the Ely part of the journey, but this would of course introduce complexity and unreliability. One presumes someone decided that the numbers of people expected to travel between Waterbeach and Cambridge North didn't merit these disbenefits.

 

[jopsuk]

Waterbeach IS planned- it's just not been scheduled well. The Outline planning application for the barracks site in its transport assessment promises that the 8-car extensions to the existing platforms will be a priority (I think they may be required by conditions to have that completed before anyone moves into any property on the site- we'll see what officers and councillors recommend and approve) and that the 12-carriage station on a site to the north of the existing station is to be built to serve the full development.

But because of that, nobody else (Network Rail, councils, etc) wants to spend a penny on doing the work there.

 

[MikeWM]

Waterbeach IS planned- it's just not been scheduled well. The Outline planning application for the barracks site in its transport assessment promises that the 8-car extensions to the existing platforms will be a priority (I think they may be required by conditions to have that completed before anyone moves into any property on the site- we'll see what officers and councillors recommend and approve) and that the 12-carriage station on a site to the north of the existing station is to be built to serve the full development.

But because of that, nobody else (Network Rail, councils, etc) wants to spend a penny on doing the work there.

Unfortunately that hardly inspires confidence. There is quite a laundry list from recent years in Cambridgeshire of housing developers being 'required' to do things that have nevertheless gone on to do nothing of the sort, seemingly without consequence.

On that basis, we'll be lucky if anything happens in the next decade

 

[Class 170101]

It's a bit of a perfect storm, unfortunately, that no-one seems to have been capable of predicting in advance. Everyone who travels into Cambridge from the north knows that more capacity is urgently needed, but:

- we can't have more frequent trains, because Ely North junction works have been put off

- we can't have longer trains without SDO, because Waterbeach platforms need extending and that's been put off (and/or never officially been scheduled in the first place)

- we can't have longer trains with SDO at Waterbeach, even though we're about to get SDO trains, because either that fouls the level crossing (which possibly may be ok if altered (?), but no-one is planning on doing that) or the front end would be off the platform, which is apparently not allowed with DOO.

Also the power supply north of Milton Fen feeder station is an issue. Only 5 EMUs in section between there and Littleport and a further 5 EMUs north of Littleport to Kings Lynn moving is allowed.

 

[MikeWM]

Also the power supply north of Milton Fen feeder station is an issue. Only 5 EMUs in section between there and Littleport and a further 5 EMUs north of Littleport to Kings Lynn moving is allowed.

Thanks, I knew there was yet another constraint but couldn't recall what it was.

Perhaps someone (GA??) could find an old DMU or two from somewhere, and put on a shuttle service in peak hours between Cambridge and Ely, calling at Cambridge North and Waterbeach, preferably timed to connect into those services that aren't able to call at the new station due to existing overcrowding. That seems just about the only plausible improvement to what is a right mess of a situation, until someone decides to sort out these numerous infrastructure issues.

 

[dk1]

Thanks, I knew there was yet another constraint but couldn't recall what it was.

Perhaps someone (GA??) could find an old DMU or two from somewhere, and put on a shuttle service in peak hours between Cambridge and Ely, calling at Cambridge North and Waterbeach, preferably timed to connect into those services that aren't able to call at the new station due to existing overcrowding. That seems just about the only plausible improvement to what is a right mess of a situation, until someone decides to sort out these numerous infrastructure issues.

No chance of that. You've only got to look at 37s/68s on long term hire to see the shortages on the DMU front. Class 153s operating vice a 156 is still an almost daily occurrence.

 

[Starmill]

Ha! A spare DMU? Good luck finding one of those anywhere in the country.

 

[MikeWM]

Yes, I know, I was mostly being facetious. I was going to suggest holding onto a 365 or 2 for the job, but the Milton power supply issue probably scuppers that idea.

As I said above, a perfect storm of infrastructure problems that no-one seems willing to sort out. As it stands, we can't have more trains that go through Ely North, we can't have more electric trains whether they go through Ely North or not, we don't have any more non-electric trains, we can't have longer trains without SDO stopping at Waterbeach, and we can't have longer trains with SDO stopping at Waterbeach!

It would be quite amusing if it wasn't quite so annoying.

 

[cle]

How about one of the 315s - aren't they soon to be going spare? Or even a spare 313 going back and forth! With a re-paint, most people don't know the difference...

 

[arb]

On the subject of not being able to have longer trains, I've always been impressed at what happens with the 0748 and 0756 departures from Ely towards Cambridge/London. These are two "short" trains that both originate from Kings Lynn (I think), following each other just a few minutes apart but with different stopping patterns, and they then join together at Cambridge to make a single long train to London.

Is there no scope for doing something similar with both the 0826 and 0858 departures from Ely (even if not all the way from Kings Lynn)? An additional train 5-10 minutes in front of both feels like it would help spread out the passengers in both cases (or at least definitely on the 0826; I'm not sure how much of the crowding on the 0858 is due to it being the first off-peak train, so providing another peak train there might not achieve much).

Is it a lack of trains that prevents this happening? Or the problem with too many electric trains at once in the different sections north of Cambridge? Or something else entirely?

 

[hozza94]

Ha! A spare DMU? Good luck finding one of those anywhere in the country.

Or Vivarail can step in and supply the train...

 

[Starmill]

On the subject of not being able to have longer trains, I've always been impressed at what happens with the 0748 and 0756 departures from Ely towards Cambridge/London. These are two "short" trains that both originate from Kings Lynn (I think), following each other just a few minutes apart but with different stopping patterns, and they then join together at Cambridge to make a single long train to London.

Is there no scope for doing something similar with both the 0826 and 0858 departures from Ely (even if not all the way from Kings Lynn)? An additional train 5-10 minutes in front of both feels like it would help spread out the passengers in both cases (or at least definitely on the 0826; I'm not sure how much of the crowding on the 0858 is due to it being the first off-peak train, so providing another peak train there might not achieve much).

Is it a lack of trains that prevents this happening? Or the problem with too many electric trains at once in the different sections north of Cambridge? Or something else entirely?

Isn't this already happening with the 0551 from Kings Lynn and 0630 from Cambridge North?

 

[D365]

Surely the power supply limitation is only going to get worse when the Class 387s are fully introduced to Kings Lynn?

 

[bspahh]

Surely the power supply limitation is only going to get worse when the Class 387s are fully introduced to Kings Lynn?

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Enhancements-Delivery-Plan.pdf is linked from www.flua.org.uk

On page 28 it says that they are due to start work on the outer Anglia traction power upgrade this month, and that it will be ready for use in November 2018

 

[jopsuk]

Everything seems to indicate that the station will indeed open this Sunday

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Or Vivarail can step in and supply the train...

Please please please ask Northern for some of their 142s, please!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Or Vivarail can step in and supply the train...

Sometime near the end of 2018 when Vivarail finally receive acceptance, start production at their stated commencement date of November 2017 and have completed the units that they claim already to have orders for, etc, etc, etc,....

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Everything seems to indicate that the station will indeed open this Sunday

As a matter of curiosity, is Sunday always the commencement date for operations that serve new stations?

 

[dk1]

As a matter of curiosity, is Sunday always the commencement date for operations that serve new stations?

More often than not they come in with a new timetable so that will always be a Sunday. Suppose it's a gentle day to kick things off.

 

[TheDavibob]

Does anyone know which of the various approach routes will be open come Sunday? (I'm mainly asking about the southern route from the river, though from what I've seen in the flesh it looked essentially finished).

 

[jopsuk]

I've not seen anything to indicate any routes won't be opened Sunday- so including the Moss Bank one

 

[dk1]

Unbelievably I have heard drivers saying they are concerned about the braking point for stopping at this new station. I cannot help but worry about some of my colleagues :roll:

 

[Starmill]

Unbelievably I have heard drivers saying they are concerned about the braking point for stopping at this new station. I cannot help but worry about some of my colleagues :roll:

Why might they be concerned?

 

[dk1]

Why might they be concerned?

Because they are worse than old women haha.

 

[TheDavibob]

With regards Waterbeach et al, RAIL 827 suggests Great Northern believe that power supply upgrades and Watlington/Littleport/Waterbeach extensions will be complete "by the end of the year" (and thus 8-car 387s, presumably working in a stop at Cambridge North).

 

[swt_passenger]

With regards Waterbeach et al, RAIL 827 suggests Great Northern believe that power supply upgrades and Watlington/Littleport/Waterbeach extensions will be complete "by the end of the year" (and thus 8-car 387s, presumably working in a stop at Cambridge North).

I also see that in the March 2017 update to the enhancements milestones the power supply upgrades (for this route) are stated to be only on the distribution operator's system (UKPN), suggesting that the railway's equipment is already capable. I don't think I'd noticed that point before.

The same document has not been recently updated regarding the platform work though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Unbelievably I have heard drivers saying they are concerned about the braking point for stopping at this new station. I cannot help but worry about some of my colleagues :roll:

If they don't think they will stop from there, surely they should simply brake sooner (and report the matter)?

 

[Ianno87]

Everything seems to indicate that the station will indeed open this Sunday

GA have done a big Comms push this week. Posters, announcements on trains, etc. Reminding passengers "if you come into Cambridge from the north, you may find Cambridge North easier than battling through town"

Also, an Easement (700714) has been added permitting all tickets (except Advances) for Cambridge to be used at Cambridge North, and vice versa.

 

[dk1]

If they don't think they will stop from there, surely they should simply brake sooner (and report the matter)?

No its nothing worth worrying about. Some need their hands held :roll: