Carmarthen to Aberystwyth Reopening?

[DynamicSpirit]

Any more news on this exciting plan ...?

Soon there will be spare tunnel driving shields avaialble , secondhand from the London area when Crossrail and the Northern line extesnions are done , perfect for the Pendinas tunnel on the approaches to Aber.

Don't be so quick to start giving London's tunnelling equipment away. Remember the Bakerloo line extension will need it. And then Crossrail2.... AFTER that, we might be willing to hire it out, but I suspect the proposed and very essential Dalwhinnie/Newtonmore - Tulloch line will get priority

 

[Gareth Marston]

Chief Planner, did you know they also started to dig the portals on the line beyond Llangurig?

And I knew I meant to ask the Plaid candidate a question about this today!

I have OS grid References if anyone's interested.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Excellent stuff - of course , when these TBM's get to Wales for these crucial projects , they will need to be dedicated to the job , and give appropriate local names like Myfanwy or Heulwen.

Cue photo op for AM's and other low cost politicians..

I bounced this thread deliberately , of course. Bit of gallows humour - in these difficult times.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I have OS grid References if anyone's interested.

Please ensure they are input into the Digital Railway plan - there will be a need to get 24 tph through there .....

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I bounced this thread deliberately , of course. Bit of gallows humour - in these difficult times.

The only "bouncing" of this thread should be off to oblivion..

 

[ChiefPlanner]

The only "bouncing" of this thread should be off to oblivion..

Agreed , but good sport says an Aberystwyth B.A (Hons- 1979 )

 

[Gareth Marston]

Please ensure they are input into the Digital Railway plan - there will be a need to get 24 tph through there .....

I'll get the geeky kid down the street to do it when he next hacks in I will show him posts on this thread to prove that rebuilding Aberystwyth to Carmarthen will really upset people so he won't need to change signal aspects anymore which is small stuff in comparison.

 

[topydre]

24tph would be nice; but 2tph would be enough to satisfy us. I've just cycled Aberystwyth-Tregaron and back for a meeting and a train would be very nice indeed

 

[Llanigraham]

I have OS grid References if anyone's interested.

So do I, however it is not Open Access land and there are no RoW's nearby.

 

[The Planner]

These appear to be photos of one of the portal works?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

24tph would be nice; but 2tph would be enough to satisfy us. I've just cycled Aberystwyth-Tregaron and back for a meeting and a train would be very nice indeed

Out of curiosity , how long did that take ? - some of it is I think a proper cycle way - def something I would not mind doing sometime ...?

 

[Gareth Marston]

These appear to be photos of one of the portal works?

It's close to "wilderness" in the Modern British sense up their. The photographer might have been the first person in years to see it.

You can see quite a bit of the Penpontbren Junction to Llangurig section along the A470. An over bridge in Llangurig was lost a few years back and some of the trackbeds been eroded by a stream in recent years but it's still a relatively easy find for something that's been abandoned since the 1860's , there's 1960's closures there's no trace off. You can find Gangers Huts intact up near Tylwch and Pantydwr plus ballast off the Mid Wales line.

It's because the nature of the route means it's not been red eloped the point the campaigners make the line to Carmarthen 97% of the trackbeds is still there.

 

[topydre]

Out of curiosity , how long did that take ? - some of it is I think a proper cycle way - def something I would not mind doing sometime ...?

2 hours more or less on the dot. The cycle way is very good between Aberystwyth and Trawsgoed, and then between Tynygraig (ish) and a couple of miles outside Tregaron. Unfortunately a couple of CPOs failed between Trawsgoed and Tynygraig, which means a lot of ups and downs and road riding between the two. It's a nice ride with a fair bit of fairly level straights

 

[Llanigraham]

These appear to be photos of one of the portal works?

Those are indeed photos of the "earthworks". As can be seen, not a lot was done! And they are very remote!

As Gareth says, there are quite a few remains between the old junction and Llangurig, easily seen from the A470 and the A44. Park in the car park of The Blue Bell Inn in Llangurig and you are partly on the line, and can see the route through the village. Whether rails actually got that far is debateable.

 

[Gareth Marston]

From

http://www2.partyof.wales/actionplan17

Where we are:
Years of chronic underinvestment has meant Welsh roads, railways and buses are overcrowded
and crumbling. The Labour
Welsh Government is determined to blow Wales's borrowing budget on an
M4 relief road that will only benet one part of Wales.
Plaid Cymru's answer:

Plaid Cymru wants to see a real Wales-wide transport system, including re-opening the Carmarthen-Aberystwyth railway, improved Valleys line services, improvements to the A55 and the expansion of the Traws Cymru bus network. We will also ensure that walking and cycling is integrated with bus and rail services.
Where we can be:
A Wales with a transport
system t for the 21st
century so people can travel
in and around Wales easily.

That's the Plaid Election Manifesto

 

[Envoy]

From

http://www2.partyof.wales/actionplan17



That's the Plaid Election Manifesto

Well, I hope that all the people stuck in the M4 jams at Newport and intending to vote PC are aware that they would prefer to re-build the Carmarthen to Aberystwyth Railway. At least this will find favour in Tregaron and Lampeter!

 

[Gareth Marston]

Well, I hope that all the people stuck in the M4 jams at Newport and intending to vote PC are aware that they would prefer to re-build the Carmarthen to Aberystwyth Railway. At least this will find favour in Tregaron and Lampeter!

PC are targeting Valleys Seats and Ceredigion has a Lib Dem in situ which they desperately want to take.

 

[shredder1]

There might not be a huge flow of passengers wanting to travel from Carmarthen to Aberystwyth, true. But there might be a lot of people who would travel from Carmarthen and west wales to all of Aberystwyth, Machynlleth, Newtown, Welshpool and Shrewsbury. Might this be a quicker route from Swansea and Llanelli to Shrewsbury than either of the current routes? It certainly would be for journeys to Aberystwyth and Machynlleth! OK, this still might not be very many people. But it's value as a link is perhaps being underestimated a little, much like Porthmadog and Bangor, these places are all a bit strangely cut off.

Yes I tend to agree, although the demography hasn't changed much, looking at the larger picture it could create its on business corridor and regenerate other isolated locations.

 

[Envoy]

Voters in the valleys would surely favour a black route M4 south of Newport over the re-building of the Carmarthen to Aberystwyth railway.

It takes 3 hours 50 minutes to get from Carmarthen to Shrewsbury via Hereford. It takes 1 hour 50 minutes to get from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth. That means that if a train could get from Carmarthen to Shrewsbury on a new line via Lampeter in 2 hours, that it would be just as fast as the present route. All intermediate places (such as Newtown) would therefore have a faster route to/from SW Wales. If Carmarthen to Aberystwyth could be done in less than 2 hours, then it would be a faster route to places beyond Shrewsbury.

Even the slow going Heart of Wales line takes only around 30 minutes longer from Llanelli to Shrewsbury than the route via Hereford. (It is also substantially cheaper).

 

[Gareth Marston]

Voters in the valleys would surely favour a black route M4 south of Newport over the re-building of the Carmarthen to Aberystwyth railway.

It takes 3 hours 50 minutes to get from Carmarthen to Shrewsbury via Hereford. It takes 1 hour 50 minutes to get from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth. That means that if a train could get from Carmarthen to Shrewsbury on a new line via Lampeter in 2 hours, that it would be just as fast as the present route. All intermediate places (such as Newtown) would therefore have a faster route to/from SW Wales. If Carmarthen to Aberystwyth could be done in less than 2 hours, then it would be a faster route to places beyond Shrewsbury.

Even the slow going Heart of Wales line takes only around 30 minutes longer from Llanelli to Shrewsbury than the route via Hereford. (It is also substantially cheaper).

A not insignificant amount of folk in the valleys would see the M4 project as to do with the Cardiff elite.

 

[6Gman]

From

http://www2.partyof.wales/actionplan17



That's the Plaid Election Manifesto

Isn't transport devolved?

 

[30907]

It takes 3 hours 50 minutes to get from Carmarthen to Shrewsbury via Hereford. It takes 1 hour 50 minutes to get from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth. That means that if a train could get from Carmarthen to Shrewsbury on a new line via Lampeter in 2 hours, that it would be just as fast as the present route. All intermediate places (such as Newtown) would therefore have a faster route to/from SW Wales

But what's the market (apart from Gareth Marston's Newtown to Haverfordwest customer elsewhere on the forum)? A vast range of English destinations, and North Wales too, but Carmarthen and beyond isn't a vast catchment.

 

[Parallel]

But what's the market (apart from Gareth Marston's Newtown to Haverfordwest customer elsewhere on the forum)? A vast range of English destinations, and North Wales too, but Carmarthen and beyond isn't a vast catchment.

I wonder if (as long as the connections were good) it would be faster to travel to Aberystwyth via Carmarthen from not only stations in West and South Wales, but also stations in SW England from Bristol Temple Meads and beyond. Having studied in Aberystwyth, I know people personally who used the bus from Aber to Carmarthen, with onward rail towards Bristol, Wiltshire and Somerset. I never did as I was put off by the hassle of trying to store luggage on a bus.

If it was the fastest route then the journey planners online would be tweaked to reflect this and I have no doubt the trains would be used from this, especially as there is also a university at Lampeter. Some buses from larger settlements away from the line could then connect with trains. To further improve usage on the line, the TOC could introduce via Carmarthen fares (As what happens with the current via Hereford). Services could also connect with the few direct Carmarthen - Paddington services too, and I wonder if this would rival the journey time to London Euston.

I'm under no illusion that such a line would cost a fortune to build, and it might not be justified, but I think there is probably an untapped market for rail in West Wales, where currently the provision for rail infrastructure and services are poor.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Actually it will only be S Wales that is closer time wise to Aberystwyth.

The Trawslink Campaigners want a 90 minute journey time between Aberystwyth and Carmarthen at the moment Carmarthen to Cardiff is typically 1 hr 50 minutes. The journey time via Shrewsbury from Cardiff is 4 hours.

Once you get to Newport its even Stevens both ways.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Voters in the valleys would surely favour a black route M4 south of Newport over the re-building of the Carmarthen to Aberystwyth railway.

May I ask those resident in Wales to give a comparative numerical estimated daily usage of:-
A)...A black route M4 south of Newport
B)...A reopened Carmarthen to Aberystwyth Railway.

 

[Gareth Marston]

May I ask those resident in Wales to give a comparative numerical estimated daily usage of:-
A)...A black route M4 south of Newport
B)...A reopened Carmarthen to Aberystwyth Railway.

You miss the point Paul the projects are not about "numbers".

The current Welsh Labour (Welsh Government) see it as a grand project to boost the economy of Wales and relieve traffic congestion (and the moaning that goes with it) around the Brynglas Tunnels near Newport. it also "rewards" Labour voting areas with investment projects.

Plaid see the M4 Relief Road as a Labour spending all the transport budget in one small corner of South Wales Coastal plain Wales favored by the Cardiff "elite" and is yet further evidence of the bias against the rest of Wales.

In a economy already saturated with Motor Vehicle usage adding some extra road capacity in one small part of it is not going to have any transformational affect as it will not result in any step change in provision. As they say we can now drive to the next traffic jam quicker. The road if built will just create new traffic that creates new jams elsewhere either side of it and any overall benefit to the areas economy will be lost and maybe even head the other way. Theirs also the environmental impact and the affordability/opportunity cost to consider. Plus all that extra Nitrogen Dioxide for the good voters of the Cardiff and Newport suburbs to choke to death on.

Whatever you view on the AYW to CMN reopening it wont have the negative impact on the environment, health and road congestion that the M4 Relief Road will nor the same opportunity cost.

However in my opinion the South Wales Metro should be the priority transport project per se in Wales as if done properly it will deliver a step change in provision for the million or so people that live in the Cardiff City Region.

Other Metropolitan areas with populations of One million plus in the UK that need this approach are Glasgow/Edinburgh, Newcastle/Sunderland, Leeds/Bradford, Sheffield, Greater Manchester, Merseyside, West Midlands, Derby/Nottingham/Leicester, Bristol and South Hampshire.

 

[Envoy]

The Black Route M4 should be the top priority for the Welsh Government. It is just unacceptable that south Wales is effectively cut off from southern England for considerable periods of time by the jams at Newport. It is not only affecting people in Wales but also those in England. To ordinary people, the border simply does not exist between England & Wales. Indeed, many commuters from Bristol are moving to communities between Newport and the Severn Bridge - or even further into south Wales. Many also commute the other way. What we are seeing is the development of one large economic area that stretches from Bath in the east through Bristol and Newport to Cardiff and Barry in the west. The south eastern valleys are also forming a part of this economic area.

The Metro project is a lot of hype about nothing. What needs to be done is to get the railways electrified - preferably using modern stock. New stations need to be built. I note that Ken Skates wishes St.Mellons to be one of those at the top of the list. That being so, why is it not being built now - before the wires go up? Some sort of Travelcard linking bus use to train use should be developed - again, this could be done now but nothing has been done.

If the new M4 is not built, the promotion of Cardiff Airport to people travelling from England will be extremely difficult. Those who are against the building of the new M4 are also increasing air pollution due to jams and inducing accidents on the current overloaded M4.

GWR will soon be increasing capacity between Cardiff & Bristol TM. It is just a pit that they are going to use old Thames Turbos and HST’s (shortened) for these services instead of modern electric trains.

It is complete rubbish to talk about the “Cardiff elite” using the M4. The M4 is for everybody.

 

[topydre]

The M4 is for everybody.

It's not for me; I don't drive! Railways are a much more inclusive form of transport.
Plus drivers in that area already have a dual carriageway and many alternative routes; in West Wales we don't even have a single track north-south railway! (apart from Aberystwyth-Pwllheli, which doesn't yet link up to either the SWML or the NWML)

It's a major shame that, post-devolution, Welsh Labour seem to be committed to following Westminster's example and concentrating investment in the south-east corner whilst leaving everywhere else to decay, with economic decline and young people leaving in droves. After all, this policy (from a London perspective) was one of the main reasons for devolution!

We need to be linking up the neglected west of Wales, with railways, like they've started to do in Western Ireland

 

[Llanigraham]

There is plenty of "big business" backing for the "Black route" around Newport, not just from the Welsh Labour Party. Gareth conveniently seems to have ignored the recent comments from the combined South Wales Chambers of Commerce (not a left wing organisation) supporting this, plus other comments by businesses further west stating that the M4 problems are stifling investment in southern parts Wales.

The building of a South Wales Metro is not and cannot alleviate all the problems caused by the Brynglas Tunnels, and to think it will is frankly cloud cuckoo land. It may help, but that is all.

Likewise the reopening of the Aber Carmarthen route is a fantasy. A 90 minute journey target I suspect would be impossible and there is not the population or passenger requirement for it.

 

[Gareth Marston]

There is plenty of "big business" backing for the "Black route" around Newport, not just from the Welsh Labour Party. Gareth conveniently seems to have ignored the recent comments from the combined South Wales Chambers of Commerce (not a left wing organisation) supporting this, plus other comments by businesses further west stating that the M4 problems are stifling investment in southern parts Wales.

The building of a South Wales Metro is not and cannot alleviate all the problems caused by the Brynglas Tunnels, and to think it will is frankly cloud cuckoo land. It may help, but that is all.

Likewise the reopening of the Aber Carmarthen route is a fantasy. A 90 minute journey target I suspect would be impossible and there is not the population or passenger requirement for it.

Graham the Federation of Small Business opposes it http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-wales-33237771/m4-relief-road-1bn-piece-of-tarmac-not-priority-fsb-says

Support is certainly not universal for it.