New South Western franchise: Awarded to First/MTR

[HowardGWR]

I rather hope they stay with Celia Drummond (who has been re-recorded for station announcements too).

Phil could probably have his "Western Railway" from GWR and "South" from SWT merged into one recording and it'd sound alright.

Not, with respect to the late Phil, if it's repeated once or twice every minute at Waterloo! I hardly ever go there (mainly bale out at Clapham Junction for Gatwick) but I am amazed that pax who do, don't complain. It's banal.

 

[fgwrich]

Not knowing how old or new the SWT System is, how do we know First isn't looking at expanding (unfortunately) it's contract to roll out ATOS Annie?

Having said that, and hearing the modified SWT announcements this afternoon at Winchester, in all honesty I couldn't tell you who's actually worse. Theyre both now as slow, robotic and slightly patronising as each other.

 

[Parallel]

Not, with respect to the late Phil, if it's repeated once or twice every minute at Waterloo! I hardly ever go there (mainly bale out at Clapham Junction for Gatwick) but I am amazed that pax who do, don't complain. It's banal.

Could be worse, could be Ruth growling "GREAT. WESTURN. RAILWAY" every minute. Announcements on platform 6/7 at Cardiff just used to say "xx.xx service to" but now they say 'Arriva Trains Wales' or 'Trenau Arriva Cymru'. There's a train about every 5 minutes in each direction and they're all Arriva!

I have heard a clip of Celia's new announcements - I much prefer the older ones.

 

[louis97]

Not knowing how old or new the SWT System is, how do we know First isn't looking at expanding (unfortunately) it's contract to roll out ATOS Annie?

That contract will be with GWR, not First who is just the parent/owning group.

Any new system on SWT would be totally separate from the system used by GWR, so won't be an expansion of anything.

It would not surprise me if SWT did move to the ATOS CIS system, even if similar just because the interface with Darwin is a lot better.

 

[bb21]

Indeed they can be. Would mobilisation / demobilisation being passenger service improvements though? That was after all the point of the survey that they commented on.

It is still a long time to the new franchise start date.

 

[infobleep]

That contract will be with GWR, not First who is just the parent/owning group.

Any new system on SWT would be totally separate from the system used by GWR, so won't be an expansion of anything.

It would not surprise me if SWT did move to the ATOS CIS system, even if similar just because the interface with Darwin is a lot better.

Yes SWT had a lot of problems upgrading to support Darwin. Had to switch off their link to the online systems for quiet some months whilst they worked on the upgrade.

 

[greaterwest]

Yes SWT had a lot of problems upgrading to support Darwin. Had to switch off their link to the online systems for quiet some months whilst they worked on the upgrade.

I'd imagine the new system has a much better interface or they wouldn't have upgraded (or they would have gone with ATOS)

The new system seems to be Ditra/KeTech based, like Southern's Amey system, but with Celia Drummond's voice being re-recorded.

Not knowing how old or new the SWT System is, how do we know First isn't looking at expanding (unfortunately) it's contract to roll out ATOS Annie?

Having said that, and hearing the modified SWT announcements this afternoon at Winchester, in all honesty I couldn't tell you who's actually worse. Theyre both now as slow, robotic and slightly patronising as each other.

The new ones are starting to grow on me, I don't mind them that much and I certainly prefer them to Anne!

 

[Class455]

What is going to be used on the Guildford to Ascot line to replace the 456's? Surely they could have retained some of the 455/7's, converted them to three car and use them in six car formations, or will it be the 450's cascaded by the arrival of the 442's?

 

[pompeyfan]

What is going to be used on the Guildford to Ascot line to replace the 456's? Surely they could have retained some of the 455/7's, converted them to three car and use them in six car formations, or will it be the 450's cascaded by the arrival of the 442's?

It'll be 450s indirectly cascaded by the arrival of 707s.

 

[TEW]

What is going to be used on the Guildford to Ascot line to replace the 456's? Surely they could have retained some of the 455/7's, converted them to three car and use them in six car formations, or will it be the 450's cascaded by the arrival of the 442's?

They were going to replaced on Guildford-Ascot services regardless of the winner of the franchise. They're all needed from December for 10-car services on Suburban routes. 6-cars is a stupid idea anyway, most the platforms only a take 4-caoch trains and they're never really that busy.

 

[PeakABoo]

I see the Competition & Markets Authority have raised a case on this a few days ago..

https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/firstgroup-and-mtr-south-western-rail-franchise-merger-inquiry

I only use SWT for leisure travel around the Travelcard area (Richmond & Feltham mainly) so minimal impact for me. Only used FGW a few times between Brighton - Fareham.

 

[GW43125]

Over the last couple of weeks I have noticed ticket checks at my home station and on trains at least twice a week. I don't want to accuse them of penny-pinching but that seems to be exactly what they're doing. Usually we rarely get two a month.

 

[MartinB1]

I see the Competition & Markets Authority have raised a case on this a few days ago..

https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/firstgroup-and-mtr-south-western-rail-franchise-merger-inquiry

I only use SWT for leisure travel around the Travelcard area (Richmond & Feltham mainly) so minimal impact for me. Only used FGW a few times between Brighton - Fareham.

This is really interesting. This might be why we haven't as yet heard any real details from First/MTR about their plans for the franchise. I wonder if this investigation will delay the start of the new franchise?

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

 

[Suraggu]

First/MTR have stated plans for the West of England route.

6% additional seating in the class 158/159 fleet by December 2020. (Wave goodbye to those awful standard seats.

Improving services to Yeovil Pen Mill and Warminster as well as giving West of England two trains per hour earlier on a Sunday.

 

[43096]

First/MTR have stated plans for the West of England route.



6% additional seating in the class 158/159 fleet by December 2020. (Wave goodbye to those awful standard seats.



Improving services to Yeovil Pen Mill and Warminster as well as giving West of England two trains per hour earlier on a Sunday.

And say hello to ironing boards, no doubt. Can't have much more comfortable trains on the Waterloo-Exeter route than the Paddington-Exeter (AT300s) can we?

 

[Suraggu]

And say hello to ironing boards, no doubt. Can't have much more comfortable trains on the Waterloo-Exeter route than the Paddington-Exeter (AT300s) can we?

Well the AT300's will be on the 'Premier' route so you must have the premier seating.
Mind you if your over 5ft 8" or have long legs those South Western Turbo's are not exactly roomy for a 3 hour trip.

 

[Goldfish62]

This is really interesting. This might be why we haven't as yet heard any real details from First/MTR about their plans for the franchise. I wonder if this investigation will delay the start of the new franchise?

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

Looks pretty standard as with what happens with a lot of franchise awards. Can't see why it would delay things.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

This is really interesting. This might be why we haven't as yet heard any real details from First/MTR about their plans for the franchise. I wonder if this investigation will delay the start of the new franchise?

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

Would they be blocked from doing so by the PURDA rules?

 

[embers25]

And say hello to ironing boards, no doubt. Can't have much more comfortable trains on the Waterloo-Exeter route than the Paddington-Exeter (AT300s) can we?

Didn't the recent awful 159 refurb remove around 6% of the seats with the new layout? Maybe the could revert back to the old layout. I'm guessing it's bye bye to most of the tables ala GWR . The tables being a huge selling point of 159s vs 125s for me as they mean you can actually do meaningful work.

 

[43074]

This is really interesting. This might be why we haven't as yet heard any real details from First/MTR about their plans for the franchise. I wonder if this investigation will delay the start of the new franchise?

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

No the CMA investigate every franchise award, nothing to see here... First MTR​ will be asked to comply with the findings of their report, for instance by capping fare rises on a certain flow but it won't affect the start of the franchise, it never does.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Didn't the recent awful 159 refurb remove around 6% of the seats with the new layout? Maybe the could revert back to the old layout. I'm guessing it's bye bye to most of the tables ala GWR . The tables being a huge selling point of 159s vs 125s for me as they mean you can actually do meaningful work.

If they were to get rid of the tables, do passengers on them generally have enough luggage to justify some of the space freed up by the removal of tables used for the installation of luggage racks?

 

[3141]

Mind you if your over 5ft 8" or have long legs those South Western Turbo's are not exactly roomy for a 3 hour trip.

True, but I doubt that fitting in more seating is going to improve that.

If they were to get rid of the tables, do passengers on them generally have enough luggage to justify some of the space freed up by the removal of tables used for the installation of luggage racks?

There are luggage stacks already in each coach of a class 159.

A 6% increase in a coach that seats 72 means an extra 4.32 seats, = a double seat each side. Unlikely they could also squeeze in more space for luggage.

Meanwhile, when I saw this:-

http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/09/slidi...the-answer-to-uks-packed-rail-system-6624765/

I thought it was offering a crafty way of fitting in more seats, but actually it's a device for carrying cargo. Extracts below.

The UK’s rail network is already close to full capacity and the adaptable carriage inventors 42 Technology believe the sliding seats will be ‘a game changer’ in*maximising space.

With each tonne of cargo transported by rail reducing carbon emissions by 76% compared with road transport, according to Department for Transport, the invention will also be good for the environment.
The invention, which is part-funded by the Rail Safety and Standards Board, is being launched at Birmingham rail industry conference today.

Jon Spratley, director at 42 Technology, said: ‘Adaptable Carriage could be a real game changer.

‘It offers a novel but very practical way to get more cargo onto the rail network and to help train operating companies secure additional revenues from their existing infrastructure.’
He added: ‘This income could be invested in improved facilities and services for passengers or used to limit ticket price increases.
‘The approach could also help reduce emissions, cut road congestion and speed up delivery of goods bought online.’
Compressing 20 rows of seats in a typical carriage can create the same capacity as that of an articulated lorry, according to 42 Technology.
The sliding seat system is available for trials and 42 Technologies are currently in talks with a number of interested parties.

 

[yorksrob]

First/MTR have stated plans for the West of England route.

6% additional seating in the class 158/159 fleet by December 2020. (Wave goodbye to those awful standard seats.

.

You mean the nice, comfortable existing seats, replaced with rubbish rammed in no doubt. 6% capacity increase is negligible anyway.

This has screw-up written all over it.

 

[HH]

Would they be blocked from doing so by the PURDA rules?

Purdah is not an acronym, so doesn't need caps. The rule relates to civil servants, but First/MTR couldn't make any announcement that might be seeing as on the government's behalf. That shouldn't involve putting more flesh on stuff that's already been announced, but people tend to view discretion as the better part of valour, so they may have decided it's safer to say nothing at all.

 

[embers25]

If they were to get rid of the tables, do passengers on them generally have enough luggage to justify some of the space freed up by the removal of tables used for the installation of luggage racks?

Don't forget tables also give space behind seats that has been lost on the hideous GWR HST layout.

 

[BestWestern]

True, but I doubt that fitting in more seating is going to improve that.



There are luggage stacks already in each coach of a class 159.

A 6% increase in a coach that seats 72 means an extra 4.32 seats, = a double seat each side. Unlikely they could also squeeze in more space for luggage.

Meanwhile, when I saw this:-

http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/09/slidi...the-answer-to-uks-packed-rail-system-6624765/

I thought it was offering a crafty way of fitting in more seats, but actually it's a device for carrying cargo. Extracts below.

The UK’s rail network is already close to full capacity and the adaptable carriage inventors 42 Technology believe the sliding seats will be ‘a game changer’ in*maximising space.

With each tonne of cargo transported by rail reducing carbon emissions by 76% compared with road transport, according to Department for Transport, the invention will also be good for the environment.
The invention, which is part-funded by the Rail Safety and Standards Board, is being launched at Birmingham rail industry conference today.

Jon Spratley, director at 42 Technology, said: ‘Adaptable Carriage could be a real game changer.

‘It offers a novel but very practical way to get more cargo onto the rail network and to help train operating companies secure additional revenues from their existing infrastructure.’
He added: ‘This income could be invested in improved facilities and services for passengers or used to limit ticket price increases.
‘The approach could also help reduce emissions, cut road congestion and speed up delivery of goods bought online.’
Compressing 20 rows of seats in a typical carriage can create the same capacity as that of an articulated lorry, according to 42 Technology.
The sliding seat system is available for trials and 42 Technologies are currently in talks with a number of interested parties.

Wow. Passengers will be awfully pleased at the idea of travelling alongside a vanload of delivery cages, I'm sure. And the owners of the contents no doubt equally chuffed about their goods being hauled around in what looks to be a complete lack of security. Even BR used to have a lockable sliding door!

 

[Kite159]

A crazy idea for the "increase of seating" on the 159s, reduce the size of the 1st Class area

 

[3141]

Wow. Passengers will be awfully pleased at the idea of travelling alongside a vanload of delivery cages, I'm sure. And the owners of the contents no doubt equally chuffed about their goods being hauled around in what looks to be a complete lack of security. Even BR used to have a lockable sliding door!

It's reminiscent of one of the entries for the competition to design the new Routemaster, which had lower deck seats that could fold up into the ceiling, enabling parcels to be carried instead of people.

It's one thing to design a vehicle that can carry either passengers or goods, but alongside that you'd need an organisation to receive the goods, direct them to the train or trains that would get them to their destination, and provide delivery arrangements or storage until the person they were for came to collect them. TOCs would need to have identified the trains on which the number of passengers was small enough for the dual-use coach to be re-arranged to carry the goods, because passengers wouldn't be pleased about not getting a seat while that coach carried goods instead. There'd have to be staff to do the rearranging and bring the goods on board. Timetables could be affected by the longer dwell times while goods were loaded or unloaded.

Ian Walmsley wrote a critical piece in Modern Railways about some of the research projects being undertaken these days, which he considered unrealistic and money-wasting. This looks like one of them. I'll be surprised if many of the "interested parties" take it much beyond the talking stage.

 

[Via Bank]

I see the Competition & Markets Authority have raised a case on this a few days ago..

https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/firstgroup-and-mtr-south-western-rail-franchise-merger-inquiry

This is a pretty standard thing whenever any new franchise is awarded to a company that also operates other routes (via bus or train) in the area. I would strongly suspect there's nothing to see here.

 

[Suraggu]

With First MTR announcing improvements to services at Yeovil Pen Mill and Warminster looks highly like additional 'Somerset Rounders' will take place off the xx:50 Waterloo to Salisbury services.

I have to be honest when I went out on the rounder it was empty between Westbury to Yeovil Jct. I cannot see how additional services will pay for itself.