Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

[61653 HTAFC]

Is the 155 still being refurbed ?

It will have been there for a year very soon

A year tomorrow, I think. There was a post a week or two ago suggesting it isn't far off being outshopped though.

I have my doubts the 170s will be with Northern next summer, Scotrails refurbishment is running behind, the HSTs will most likely be late if Im any judge and the DMU fleat is at full stretch so I think they will be unreliable when they do move.

I thought they were to work Calder Valley? They will be hopeless on the loop due to acceleration

The 170s are planned to run Harrogate services, and non-Connect Calder Valley services, presumably along with other non-Connect services in Yorkshire, there'll be enough to go round. They may not be the quickest units around but will they be worse than the 150s and especially 155/153s that currently run the majority of Harrogate line services today?

 

[Blindtraveler]

Yes. The sprinters can beat them in an accelleration race.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I would say the best place for them at Northern would be Non connect Calder Valley, York Blackpool and Leeds Nottingham via Sheffield and Barnsley

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Yes. The sprinters can beat them in an accelleration race.

Really? 150s I can appreciate, but the Leyland units are woefully underpowered. 170s when they were on TPE never seemed particularly sluggish to me.

I would say the best place for them at Northern would be Non connect Calder Valley, York Blackpool and Leeds Nottingham via Sheffield and Barnsley

Of those, the York to Blackpool and the Nottingham services (albeit diverted via Moorthorpe rather than Barnsley) WILL be Northern Connect services.

 

[Blindtraveler]

In that case York Hull and any other routes that involve good continuous running. It doesnt have to be 100mph stuff but the 170 isnt the best accelerater out there and are best not doing lots of stops ala Harogat.
A full turn round the fife circle on one must be painful for the guard.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

In that case York Hull and any other routes that involve good continuous running. It doesnt have to be 100mph stuff but the 170 isnt the best accelerater out there and are best not doing lots of stops ala Harogat.
A full turn round the fife circle on one must be painful for the guard.

With the plan for 4tph to Harrogate, it may be that some services will skip stops, particularly if that expensive turnback at Horsforth is going to get a bit more use!

 

[Starmill]

With the plan for 4tph to Harrogate, it may be that some services will skip stops, particularly if that expensive turnback at Horsforth is going to get a bit more use!

The sample timetable has just the one intermediate call between Leeds and Harrogate, at Horsforth.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The sample timetable has just the one intermediate call between Leeds and Harrogate, at Horsforth.

On how many of the 4tph is this the case? As there's nowhere to overtake, that suggests an uneven schedule of departures from Harrogate.

 

[superkev]

In that case York Hull and any other routes that involve good continuous running. It doesnt have to be 100mph stuff but the 170 isnt the best accelerater out there and are best not doing lots of stops ala Harogat.
A full turn round the fife circle on one must be painful for the guard.

I'm surprised the 170's are slow off the mark. Allthough like all post BR dmus they are much heavier than the lightweight 158''s they do have 422bhp rather than. 350. Pity Northern can't get its hands on some more (it has one) of the souped up 400bhp 158's.
K

 

[Blindtraveler]

They use that power to hold higher speeds quite well but they take a bit of getting going. The Northern drivers will find the introduction interesting me thinks. They will be good trains on the new fast services mentioned above by the sound of it, definatly an improvement on passenger cumfort for the normals. Hoping for sprinters on the stoppers though.

 

[northwichcat]

A report looking in to tram-trains in the Manchester area compared acceleration of tram-trains to modern trains and existing trains used. The report was done prior to 172s being built so used 170 timings. On a 15 mile section of track with a 60mph speed limit a total of 10 stations (including the first and last) it found:
Class 142 timing: 32 minutes
Class 170 timing: 27 minutes
tram-train timing: 24 minutes

However, if a service was provided missing the 2 quietest stations the timings change to:
Class 142 timing: 29 minutes
Class 170 timing: 24 minutes
tram-train timing: 22 minutes

So the 170s will perform much better than 142s even on stopping services where they can't use their higher speed but saying that alternative rolling stock could provide faster services than 170s on all stops services.

 

[railfan100]

Yes. The sprinters can beat them in an accelleration race.

I would have to counter this, from a standing start to around 50\60mph and then making another stop the 170 units are faster point-to-point. The dated and poor tread brakes on 'Sprinter' units are also no match for the superior stopping power on the 170's.

 

[railfan100]

Pity Northern can't get its hands on some more (it has one) of the souped up 400bhp 158's.
K

All Class 158\0 and 158\9 units could be converted to the 400hp perkins engine like some of the stock already have if someone is willing to fund the project.

 

[Blindtraveler]

This would be a handy life extention for the old girls.

 

[superkev]

All Class 158\0 and 158\9 units could be converted to the 400hp perkins engine like some of the stock already have if someone is willing to fund the project.

The Perkins engines are the same 350hp as the Cummins NTA855R1. It was the later 158's which had 400hp Cummins NTA855R3 158863- 72 and those which became 159's. Northern has one 158 872
I've always thought the 158's would benifit from some mid life reengineering with new engines gearboxes and aircon rather than Northerns basic redecoration.
K

 

[railfan100]

The Perkins engines are the same 350hp as the Cummins NTA855R1. It was the later 158's which had 400hp Cummins NTA855R3 158863- 72 and those which became 159's. Northern has one 158 872
I've always thought the 158's would benifit from some mid life reengineering with new engines gearboxes and aircon rather than Northerns basic redecoration.
K

Yes after checking details of the fleets as built you are indeed correct the 400hp versions are from Cummins.

 

[alexf380]

They're due to recieve 168867-871 from ScotRail at some point, so they will have more 400hp units to play with.

 

[Mordac]

They're due to recieve 168867-871 from ScotRail at some point, so they will have more 400hp units to play with.

158 surely?

 

[alexf380]

158 surely?

Yes, I do mean 158

 

[Crossforth]

Not sure if it has been noted elsewhere but 158753 is in the new livery and I've spotted in service this evening at York

 

[superkev]

Yes after checking details of the fleets as built you are indeed correct the 400hp versions are from Cummins.

I wonder if 158's retain the same make/ type of engine as built or if depots just swap them at random.
K

 

[Defiance149]

364 complete too

Is this actually in service or is it one of the two currently at Wolverton?

 

[yorksrob]

I've just caught a 150 with a new CET.

It was like Tomorrows World!

I wish there was a way to close the loo door upon leaving (I felt like apologising to fellow passengers for the aroma!).

 

[Blindtraveler]

Are the 150s getting the strange double door configuration on the loo like the 156s?

 

[yorksrob]

Are the 150s getting the strange double door configuration on the loo like the 156s?

Yes, looking back at it, it seems to be a double door (though I didn't notice at the time).

 

[507021]

Any guesses on which class will be fully refurbished first?

I'll have a guess on the 156s...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Any guesses on which class will be fully refurbished first?

I'll have a guess on the 156s...

If we're including sub-groups of classes I'll stick my stake on the 3-car 158s... or is that cheating?

 

[507021]

If we're including sub-groups of classes I'll stick my stake in the 3-car 158s... or is that cheating?

Smart, I like it.

In seriousness, I think the three car 158/0s will almost certainly be the first subclass to be done, with 752, 753 and 756 done and 754 away at Kilmarnock at the moment. I reckon they'll all be finished by this time next year.

 

[WatcherZero]

I've just caught a 150 with a new CET.

It was like Tomorrows World!

I wish there was a way to close the loo door upon leaving (I felt like apologising to fellow passengers for the aroma!).

Isnt there a door control button rather unconventionally on the side of the toilet rather than next to the door.

 

[joshy.fre_2003]

Don't know if this has already been brought up, but I did notice some slight variations on 753 that aren't on 752/756. Perhaps this is why it was away for so long, there's some dark blue (practically black) panels where there was white, throughout the train. The most noticeable being the walls at each end of the passenger cabin. Slight variation, but makes it look much better and a bit more normal than just full white.