Scotrail Franchise - Abellio

[sng7]

The Scottish Government and Transport Scotlands nationalistic plan to only have Scotrail trains north of the central belt has been defeated.

I am not quite sure where you get that from as if you look at other sources the reason the plans have been scrapped is due to Humza Yousaf the Scottish Transport minister asking Westminster to reinstate them.

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/our-region/edinburgh/plans-to-cut-crosscountry-trains-to-aberdeen-to-be-scrapped-1-4417141

 

[43074]

The Scottish Government and Transport Scotlands nationalistic plan to only have Scotrail trains north of the central belt has been defeated.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-39567061

That's discussing the previously proposed changes to XC's Aberdeen services from this December, which are evidently no longer happening. The plan to have ScotRail services only North of Edinburgh was, and still is, something altogether different.

 

[JohnR]

The Scottish Government has only asked them to be reinstated (or not removed) because ScotRail cant pick up the slack.

My question was, the original thinking from XC on this, was that this would release stock for more profitable use elsewhere. Since they're not being allowed to do this - who compensates them?

 

[InOban]

Very political posts. I understood that XC wanted to use the stock to increase capacity in the overcrowded core of their network, but users objected, because there is significant traffic through EDI, ie not changing there, as well as the fact that Scotrail doesn't have the units to replace them. When the mini-HSTs arrive, of course passengers may prefer them to trains with underfloor engines.

 

[Highland37]

The Scottish Government and Transport Scotlands nationalistic plan to only have Scotrail trains north of the central belt has been defeated.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-39567061

As others have said, you have got the wrong end of the stick here. It does work though if you want to believe something that isn't true.

 

[WatcherZero]

The Scottish Government set out an aim of no English tocs operating north of the central belt in their policy consultation overruling concerns of Transport Scotland. Cross Country were asked to consult on this, transferring services to Scotrail. That has now been ruled to be impractical as Transport Scotland originally advised the Scottish Government.

 

[Clansman]

Politics aside, XC and VTEC services up here in Scotland are vital for many people. No matter if it's true or not, or who thought of it, scrapping them would be pointless.

 

[WatcherZero]

Yes behind the scenes this was the policy the Scottish Government were trying to push in the Future of Rail Services in Scotland white paper arguing everyone should have to change to a Scotrail service in Edinburgh because it was more efficient than through services (something Transport Scotland tried to stop being included), though people may be forgiven for only seeing the public commercial friendly face of this.

 

[signallerscot]

Yes behind the scenes this was the policy the Scottish Government were trying to push in the Future of Rail Services in Scotland white paper, though people may be forgiven for only seeing the public commercial friendly face of this.

Arrant Unionist nonsense, as usual on here.

 

[Marklund]

Arrant Unionist nonsense, as usual on here.

[Citation Required]

 

[Highland37]

[Citation Required]

"
The Scottish Government set out an aim of no English tocs operating north of the central belt in their policy consultation" When on earth did they say "no English trains"? It's gibberish.

 

[Marklund]

"
The Scottish Government set out an aim of no English tocs operating north of the central belt in their policy consultation" When on earth did they say "no English trains"? It's gibberish.

Look here

The minister's comments came in the wake of a consultation by government agency Transport Scotland published last November, which suggested reforms including a blanket alcohol ban on trains, cuts to sleeper services and having cross-border trains stop in Edinburgh.

Good enough?

 

[marks87]

Here's the original consultation document:

https://www.transport.gov.scot/publication/rail-2014-public-consultation/j203179-02/

The relevant point is:

16. While Glasgow Central and Edinburgh Waverley act as terminus stations for Virgin and First Transpennine services, a number of cross-border services operate beyond Edinburgh Waverley to stations in Scotland. Analysis of passenger numbers has shown, however, that the service capacity beyond Glasgow and Edinburgh on these cross-border trains is frequently underutilised. We are therefore considering whether services north of Edinburgh should be provided by the Scottish franchisee, with Edinburgh becoming an interchange hub for cross-border services in the east of the country in much the same way that Glasgow acts as a cross-border hub for the west of the country. Onward connectivity will be crucial to the success of the hub scenario and we would look for increased service frequency and journey opportunities, so that the maximum value could be obtained from this arrangement.

The proposal was part of the consultation, i.e. they were asking stakeholders whether or not it's something that should be considered.

I don't know if a final report has been produced yet. I can't find one online.

 

[Highland37]

Look here



Good enough?

Yes and no. "Cross border trains" and "English" trains are two entirely different things. I wasn't aware that a train had a nationality.

"And Mr Brown has ruled out plans for cross-border trains heading to and from the north of Scotland to stop at Edinburgh for a change-over"

Also, the "government" and an "agency" are two separate things. Unless Network Rail is now the government too which it isn't.

Sloppy language overall.

 

[Marklund]

Sloppy language, yes, agreed, but it amounts to the same thing.

 

[68000]

The Scottish Government and Transport Scotlands nationalistic plan to only have Scotrail trains north of the central belt has been defeated.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-39567061

???

You have either linked to the wrong article or you are blinded by your own intolerence

 

[WatcherZero]

Try reading the last page of replies 68000

 

[InOban]

I'm not going to take the black and white political stance of some posters.

However, Transport Scotland is an agency of ScoGov; Network Rail belongs to London, although it is semi-devolved to Edinburgh, hence the Alliance. After all, Scotrail runs no trains S of Dunbar or between Carstairs and Gretna junction, and there are also freight-only lines.

However they wouldn't have included this option (terminating 'english' TOC trains at Edinburgh) unless it was suggested to them, and I think that only a politician would suggest it.

I believe that when EGIP reaches Stirling, there are suggestions of direct trains from there to the WCML.

 

[68000]

Try reading the last page of replies 68000

I did, thanks

 

[68000]

However, Transport Scotland is an agency of ScoGov; Network Rail belongs to London, although it is semi-devolved to Edinburgh, hence the Alliance.

NR is not semi-devolved to Edinburgh (by which I presume you mean the Scottish Government). NR has a devolved region or territory or route in Scotland which if anything resides in Glasgow rather than Edinburgh

 

[Marklund]

NR is not semi-devolved to Edinburgh (by which I presume you mean the Scottish Government). NR has a devolved region or territory or route in Scotland which if anything resides in Glasgow rather than Edinburgh

Where does NR get it's funding from for EGIP, AtoI, etc.
The Scottish Government...

 

[68000]

Where does NR get it's funding from for EGIP, AtoI, etc.
The Scottish Government...

They are specific investments or enhancing the network from the Scottish Government, NR gets the vast majority of its funding from the UK Government

 

[Marklund]

They are specific investments or enhancing the network from the Scottish Government, NR gets the vast majority of its funding from the UK Government

So they have absolutely no influence in the slightest...:roll:

 

[InOban]

Precisely. That's what I meant by semi-detached. I'm well aware that their Scottish hq is in Glasgow; with st. Andrew's House being an hour away it's​ hardly any longer in time than accessing other offices in EDI such in Leith. So they are legally a UK organisation, but their funding, or at least some of it, comes through Holyrood.

 

[NotATrainspott]

For goodness' sake. Please note that in this same consultation they ask about the future of the sleeper, including whether the funding should be removed entirely and thus the service shut down. You simply cannot claim that the horrible nasty SNP frothing-at-the-mouth blood-and-soil nationalists were demanding an end to UK services beyond Edinburgh any more than that they wanted to close down the Caledonian Sleeper.

Asking more and deeper questions in a consultation is a hell of a lot more useful than shying away and only asking a few shallow and meaningless ones. At the very least they can now point to consultation responses saying that the cross-Edinburgh services should be kept when justifying keeping them in future, as they have done with the CrossCountry timetable change proposals. I should note that the reason given for this undone change is that ScotRail can't pick up the services instead. That is the diametric opposite of the suggestion in the consultation, where they say that the cross-Edinburgh services could be run more efficiently by ScotRail. When they've now locked in the ScotRail franchise specification until 2022 at minimum, there's no way they could replace the CrossCountry service regardless of what good that could do for the core XC network.

 

[reb0118]

...... there is significant traffic through EDI.....

You are of course correct almost 1 million passengers flew from Edinburgh Airport last month.

A gentle reminder to all forum users to use the correct station codes. Also the first time you refer to a station use the longhand version then you can follow up with the short code. Thus:-

"Edinburgh [EDB] can now be referred to as EDB."


Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

 

[Blindtraveler]

I responded to the through services consultation thingy as soon as it started and am now thankful that these services will stay as the direct cross border trains are vital to a great number of markets not the least the many visiters that form such a huge ppart of the Scottish Govd's plans for an economically viable independant Scotland and whilst I personally am against this happening the idea that all these many visiters and their luggage should be forced to change trains in Edinburgh or Glasgow when for years direct journeys to the Highlands were ossible was just IMO moronically stupid.

Add to this the fact that Scotrail as is struggles to accommodate the numbers wishing to travel at certain times and whilst the HST fleat will see both a capacity boost and a step change in qualitty for Scottish Intercity it would be foolish to swallow up this capacity streight away with pax that certainly East Coast but understandably not so much XC are still willing to carry.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Changing the subject somewhat does anyone have any idea where the freed up DMU capacity curtacy of the phase 1 E and G electric services will be used? Or will the sensible thing be done i.e a step up in the refurb shedule and a few units not diagrammed to provide slack in the DMU fleat?

 

[InOban]

I'm sure this was discussed on another thread. I always believed that the 170s would first replace 158s on the Dunblane and Alloa routes, allowing the latter to go for major refurbishment. At some point a number will go down south, but I don't know when that's meant to happen.

And apologies to reb0118 for using the EDI airport code. I also post on that subject, and my tablet autocompletes. Since very few posters use station codes, I'll try to stick to full names!

 

[Bungle965]

Out of curiosity, the Fife Circle loco hauled train is due to end soon what's the likelihood of it being extended?
Or is this the end for it.
Sam