New South Western franchise: Awarded to First/MTR

[HarleyDavidson]

I told them lots of thing's including how to increase operational flexibility at Haslemere by moving two sets of points and installing just one new set and two signals.

That the service between Waterloo and Portsmouth is too slow and needs to be sped up due to the Hindhead Tunnel allowing faster journey times by road.

I mentioned lots of simple things to improve the service, but do you honestly think that they would take the blindest bit of notice when you have the so called "influential" people about who dictate policy and only have one agenda and that's their own.

 

[The Ham]

I told them lots of thing's including how to increase operational flexibility at Haslemere by moving two sets of points and installing just one new set and two signals.

That the service between Waterloo and Portsmouth is too slow and needs to be sped up due to the Hindhead Tunnel allowing faster journey times by road.

I mentioned lots of simple things to improve the service, but do you honestly think that they would take the blindest bit of notice when you have the so called "influential" people about who dictate policy and only have one agenda and that's their own.

If (as you've not posted them I am not making any comment either way) your solutions improve reliability and/or speed up services (although both will improve each other) then the TOC could want to implement them regardless of what any policy says.

As faster journey times (as long as it's not at the expense of frequency) will gain good publicity as will begin able to claim that their service reliability has improved.

The reason that both faster speeds and reliability improve the other is that with faster speeds comes the ability to be not so reliable on the service padding to make up lost time, whilst improved reliability means that it could be possible to remove some of the service padding and still run a reliable service on time.

 

[infobleep]

If (as you've not posted them I am not making any comment either way) your solutions improve reliability and/or speed up services (although both will improve each other) then the TOC could want to implement them regardless of what any policy says.

As faster journey times (as long as it's not at the expense of frequency) will gain good publicity as will begin able to claim that their service reliability has improved.

The reason that both faster speeds and reliability improve the other is that with faster speeds comes the ability to be not so reliable on the service padding to make up lost time, whilst improved reliability means that it could be possible to remove some of the service padding and still run a reliable service on time.

The issue is such improvements might cost money and perhaps the people maintaining the infrastructure or paying for its upkeep, aka the government, don't want to spend the money

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[Wookiee]

How about Shawford? (though I suppose it could be put into the Portsmouth via Eastleigh services)

Shut up! That service is slow enough as it is!!

 

[RobShipway]

Mod Note: This post and posts #186 - #190 were originally in their own thread and have been merged with this one.

Within the wiki page for South West Trains https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_West_Trains, it states that the franchise would be opened up for competition ending in February 2017.

I am presume that the competition for the next operator to be the franchise holder ends February 2017, rather than the South West Trains franchsie ending in February 2017?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Within the wiki page for South West Trains https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_West_Trains, it states that the franchise would be opened up for competition ending in February 2017.
I am presume that the competition for the next operator to be the franchise holder ends February 2017, rather than the South West Trains franchsie ending in February 2017?

The franchise does nominally end in Feb 2017, but the schedule shows a 5-month extension to June with another 2 months available at the SoS's discretion.
The award for the new franchise is due also in Feb 2017.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rail-franchise-schedule

Which reminds me that the ITT for West Midlands was due in July and is therefore slipping.

 

[3141]

It originally should have ended in February 2017, Stagecoach and the DfT were unable to reach agreement on a direct award to extend it, there is a short-term extension as stated above, and there are currently two bidders preparing their submissions to take over after that - Stagecoach and First + MTR.

 

[RobShipway]

Okay, thanks. The reason for the question is that I understand that the class 707 fleet will get introduced sometime within the beginning of 2017, so I presume that they get introduced before Stagecoach leaves as the current Franchisee?

 

[J-2739]

Wow, that's really close! And Tfl could be snatching some suburban lines from the South West Trains Franchise, which also doesn't feel far.

 

[swt_passenger]

Okay, thanks. The reason for the question is that I understand that the class 707 fleet will get introduced sometime within the beginning of 2017, so I presume that they get introduced before Stagecoach leaves as the current Franchisee?

707 introduction overlaps the change of franchise, with main deliveries June to December 2017. It's all dealt with in the ITT, the incoming franchise must include inter alia :

A clear plan as to how the Franchisee will continue the introduction of the Class 707 fleet and any new or cascaded rolling stock into passenger service

They also have to consider the impact of a lengthy delay to 707 introduction.

 

[KX03HZY]

I've a bad feeling First will win it, I really hope this doesn't happen.

 

[bb21]

Wow, that's really close! And Tfl could be snatching some suburban lines from the South West Trains Franchise, which also doesn't feel far.

It's still only a lot of hot air at this stage.

 

[J-2739]

It's still only a lot of hot air at this stage.

I suppose it is, I haven't heard any news on this mass takeover for a while (apart from those other anti-Southern protesters).

 

[absolutelymilk]

Any rumours on what Stagecoach and First + MTR are proposing?

 

[swt_passenger]

Any rumours on what Stagecoach and First + MTR are proposing?

Well its always highly unlikely there'll be any rumours; and they won't be saying anything publicly as they'd be in default of the franchising competition rules.

This question seems to get asked at some point during every competition, and I don't recall any valuable info ever coming up...

 

[43096]

Any rumours on what Stagecoach and First + MTR are proposing?

The franchise spec apparently specifies station dwell times that cannot be met by 455/456 stock, so expect follow-on orders for 90-100 Desiro Cities to replace them.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

The franchise spec apparently specifies station dwell times that cannot be met by 455/456 stock, so expect follow-on orders for 90-100 Desiro Cities to replace them.

If they do I wouldn't be surprised to see Southern place an order for some as well to replaced all their 455s and 313s

 

[43096]

If they do I wouldn't be surprised to see Southern place an order for some as well to replaced all their 455s and 313s

In what time frame, though? Southern are not committed to any new train orders in the current GTR (mis-)management contract, so 313 and 455 replacement will probably have to wait for the next franchise.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

In what time frame, though? Southern are not committed to any new train orders in the current GTR (mis-)management contract, so 313 and 455 replacement will probably have to wait for the next franchise.

It could give them some flexibility with their fleet, a new build of Cities with whatever is needed onboard to run through the TL core would give them a little flexibility to switch units around if one sub franchise gets short on units.

Will GTR actually survive until whenever it is that the franchise is due for renewal?

 

[43096]

It could give them some flexibility with their fleet, a new build of Cities with whatever is needed onboard to run through the TL core would give them a little flexibility to switch units around if one sub franchise gets short on units.



Will GTR actually survive until whenever it is that the franchise is due for renewal?

I think you are rather overstating the case for more 700s. TL runs on 8/12 cars, whereas 455 replacement will likely be either 5 or 10 car. Compatibility with the 377 fleet would be rather more useful (but equally unlikely now production has switched to Aventra).

As for GTR still being there, they are currently serving as useful lightning conductor for DfT. How long that continues for is anyone's guess.

 

[HH]

I think you are rather overstating the case for more 700s.

I think that you're understating the benefits of Class 7xx (not necessarily Cl700). New trains would bring lots of benefits and wouldn't necessarily cost that much more - the market is currently quite competitive.

 

[Steve14]

Apologies if the topic is already up, tried finding it but no joy. What's the current status of this? I understand there were two final bidders (MTR/First and Stagecoach). When is the winning bid likely to be announced?

 

[bb21]

Decision expected in April I believe.

Franchise change bang in the middle of Waterloo works. Excellent planning by DfT.

 

[HH]

Decision expected announced in April I believe.

Corrected. The decision will have already been made, pending the usual contractual negotiations.

 

[bb21]

Corrected. The decision will have already been made, pending the usual contractual negotiations.

Arghhh. The pedantry on this forum drives me mad.

 

[Robertj21a]

Personally hoping it's Stagecoach again, it's been a professional operation.

 

[theironroad]

Franchise change bang in the middle of Waterloo works. Excellent planning by DfT.

I've been unable to figure this out. It's beyond stupid to be honest.

If the franchise changes and I do say IF as I haven't a clue, it will be first time in 20 years, as stagecoach have held it for the whole time (barring the 1st year I think).

The Waterloo upgrade work is being touted as the biggest project for the swml in decades and the publicity about the partial closure of Waterloo (swt hub and busiest station in country for passenger numbers) in August has been advertised for a while.

Who on this earth thought combining the two events was a good idea?????

While a change in owner and senior management won't have an immediate effect on frontline operations, it will mean eyes will be taken off the ball and distracted when all the focus should be on a successful completion of the Waterloo remodeling.

 

[ScotGG]

I've read the lack of bidders mean DfT wont get good terms. They were hoping for a cash cow. If that's not the case that will impact on following franchise bid specifications. If so good luck to those coming up shortly after.

 

[abn444]

I've been unable to figure this out. It's beyond stupid to be honest.

If the franchise changes and I do say IF as I haven't a clue, it will be first time in 20 years, as stagecoach have held it for the whole time (barring the 1st year I think).

The Waterloo upgrade work is being touted as the biggest project for the swml in decades and the publicity about the partial closure of Waterloo (swt hub and busiest station in country for passenger numbers) in August has been advertised for a while.

Who on this earth thought combining the two events was a good idea?????

While a change in owner and senior management won't have an immediate effect on frontline operations, it will mean eyes will be taken off the ball and distracted when all the focus should be on a successful completion of the Waterloo remodeling.

I wonder if that gives Stagecoach an advantage with the bidding. Given that is going on, given all the problems with GTR at the moment and given that Stagecoach (I think anyway) has run service quite well, surely it means giving it to Stagecoach is a safe option at the moment with all the other things going on. As I said I'm only wondering but I really do hope Stagecoach keep it.

 

[swt class 450]

I am really hoping that Stagecoach win again. In my opinion Stagecoach South West Trains have done a brilliant job and are one of the best TOCs in the UK.