Cumbrian Coast Loco Hauled Stock

[37038]

working days between xmas and new year ran as normal. Reliability has improved a reasonable amount recently. 403 is still a bit dodgy but the others plod on. 423 due back within weeks, 409 due away after

Stock still at fault for a good percentage of the coast issues related to the hauled sets. They're no longer the principle cause for concern, everything goes wrong equally now

 

[70014IronDuke]

From reports elsewhere the 37's were working more or less as normal between Xmas and New Year. reliability does seemed to have improved a bit of late, and there is now the added standby loco no doubt adding more cost to an already expensive operation.

Thanks for clarification. The reason i thought the 37s had been off work was because of RTT

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y61847/2017/01/05/advanced

They have been saying Pathed as Sprinter for the past two weeks or so, not Diesel locomotive and trailing load of 140 tons.

But whether DMU or LHCS - the timings have been much closer to published schedules over the holiday period.
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The punctuality has improved over the Xmas/New Year break partly due to at least 1 set running 3 vice 4

To clarify - you mean three Mk2s versus four Mk2s?

Does it make that much difference? We are only talking, what, 33-34 tonnes, ie about 200 tons versus 235 ?

 

[37038]

Ignore RTT. It gives an indication of what's working but it can be unreliable. People saying 37s were coming off the coast at the TT change because it was showing sprinter vice diesel+140. They're contracted for a long while yet.

One set had a week or so running as 2 Mk2s+DBSO. Bit faster off the mark but it's timed for load 4. Also remember the more coaches you add or remove, ETH has to be provided in turn. Less ETH required = some more traction power.

 

[QueensCurve]

However, not only have I not seen any major failures, the niggling 3 lates and 5 lates which seem so common with the LHCS seem to have been largely eliminated.

This could be down to reduced passenger numbers, of course, but I wonder if it's also down to automatic doors? For example, i've seen many times that the LHCS loses 5-6 minutes between Carlisle and Wigton, sometimes even Dalston - the latter seems difficult to achieve, at least from a distance - unless it can be explained by the guard having to run up and down the train closing doors. Unless there are other issues that anyone knows about?

My personal experience has been that the loco-hauled sets tend to run better to time (failures apart).

I assumed that problems with the doors being left open are offset by performance.
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Can anyone confirm that the Mk2s are the ones previously deployed on Gatwick Express?

 

[yorksrob]

My personal experience has been that the loco-hauled sets tend to run better to time (failures apart).

I assumed that problems with the doors being left open are offset by performance.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Can anyone confirm that the Mk2s are the ones previously deployed on Gatwick Express?

One of them's an old Virgin XC one. Lots of yellow painted metalwork.

 

[matt]

One of them's an old Virgin XC one. Lots of yellow painted metalwork.

They will be either ex-Virgin or ex-Anglian Railways

 

[Ash Bridge]

My personal experience has been that the loco-hauled sets tend to run better to time (failures apart).

I assumed that problems with the doors being left open are offset by performance.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Can anyone confirm that the Mk2s are the ones previously deployed on Gatwick Express?

I stand to be corrected here but I thought they were from the former XC and West Coast fleets, incidentally do they still run with the saloon powered sliding doors locked in the open position? Every train I used the previous summer seemed to operate like this.

 

[yorksrob]

They will be either ex-Virgin or ex-Anglian Railways

If it's the one I caught when the loco hauled first came on, it'll be Virgin. Still had the livery and upholstery then (although I think its since been facelifted).

 

[driver9000]

I stand to be corrected here but I thought they were from the former XC and West Coast fleets, incidentally do they still run with the saloon powered sliding doors locked in the open position? Every train I used the previous summer seemed to operate like this.

Vestibule doors have been working every time I've been on them.


The coaches are not ex Gatwick Express.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If it's the one I caught when the loco hauled first came on, it'll be Virgin. Still had the livery and upholstery then (although I think its since been facelifted).

I think from memory of seeing a photo they are ex Virgin XC - green seats and brown powder coated window frames.


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[yorksrob]

I think from memory of seeing a photo they are ex Virgin XC - green seats and brown powder coated window frames.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yes, the moquette was turquoisy - green, which I remember from XC days.

 

[sprinterguy]

I think from memory of seeing a photo they are ex Virgin XC - green seats and brown powder coated window frames.

I've just had a gander at an old Platform 5 Coaching Stock book and yes, you're entirely correct - barring the DBSOs of course, they're all former Virgin Crosscountry vehicles.

 

[QueensCurve]

I stand to be corrected here but I thought they were from the former XC and West Coast fleets, incidentally do they still run with the saloon powered sliding doors locked in the open position? Every train I used the previous summer seemed to operate like this.

It was my understanding that Mk2f were built without automatic interior doors but those used on the Gatwick express were modified to provide them.

Were others so modified?

 

[Ash Bridge]

It was my understanding that Mk2f were built without automatic interior doors but those used on the Gatwick express were modified to provide them.

Were others so modified?

Ah yes, just dug my BR Mk2 Coaches book out and you are absolutely correct, I do remember the Mk2d when introduced had the earlier wood veneer manual sliding doors but always assumed all the later or at least Mk2f versions were fitted from new, the RFB's used on ICXC and later Virgin XC loco hauled sets definitely had treadle operated power doors and I had assumed these were also fitted throughout the train.

 

[BRX]

I made a trip round the cumbrian coast just before christmas, on the day "storm barbara" was due to hit. All on loco-hauled sets. Despite the bad weather everything ran perfectly on time (Preston to Barrow and then Barrow to Carlisle). It's a slow journey but the mk2 coaches mean it's a comfortable one. Video here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7Be2AHXTQ0

As for the vestibule doors... they were sort of half alive (as often seems to be the case on HSTs too) - trying to close but don't always make it unless you give them a bit of encouragement.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I made a trip round the cumbrian coast just before christmas, on the day "storm barbara" was due to hit. All on loco-hauled sets. Despite the bad weather everything ran perfectly on time (Preston to Barrow and then Barrow to Carlisle). ...

Good to hear it! unfortunately, things went awry yesterday at Sellafield with the first off Barrow 50L - but not clear if it was down to the train or what - anybody know?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y61859/2017/01/09/advanced

This had a bad knock-on effect on the return working. A points failure later in the day made it a poor showing on the line, :cry:.

 

[37038]

Incompetence by control yesterday in dealing with late running. Caping trains that didn't need to be caped and running ECS's which needn't have moved.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Incompetence by control yesterday in dealing with late running. Caping trains that didn't need to be caped and running ECS's which needn't have moved.

And today?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y61847/2017/01/10/advanced

Losing the first one off Carlisle must be a real pain for passengers - essential for peak to Sellafield, Barrow and through train to Preston. :cry::cry:

 

[Bletchleyite]

It really should not be hard to run a rural line with little or no interaction with other services punctually and reliably all of the time...


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[Foggycorner]

I take it you want to apply for the job!!

 

[badger1badger]

What suprises me is that this is a rail forum - but so many people seem to be content on having a go - maybe folk want to lose the loco haul stuff and possible sit on pacer units !

Let's be positive

 

[47802]

What suprises me is that this is a rail forum - but so many people seem to be content on having a go - maybe folk want to lose the loco haul stuff and possible sit on pacer units !

Let's be positive

If your a commuter/regular user of the route then you want your train to do what it says on the tin, and if a pacer can do that more reliably then so be it, its not a preserved railway for enthusiasts.

 

[badger1badger]

If your a commuter/regular user of the route then you want your train to do what it says on the tin, and if a pacer can do that more reliably then so be it, its not a preserved railway for enthusiasts.

Yes fair point

 

[yorksrob]

What suprises me is that this is a rail forum - but so many people seem to be content on having a go - maybe folk want to lose the loco haul stuff and possible sit on pacer units !

Let's be positive

I do find myself surprised that some posters on this thread seem determined to concentrate on issues posed by loco hauled services whilst barely paying lip service to the other issues affecting the route.

 

[sprinterguy]

And today?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y61847/2017/01/10/advanced

First northbound service on Monday reportedly delayed due to a signalling fault, first southbound yesterday noted as cancelled due to loco issues.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What suprises me is that this is a rail forum - but so many people seem to be content on having a go - maybe folk want to lose the loco haul stuff and possible sit on pacer units !

Let's be positive

For all LH is interesting, I want the route to survive long-term. For it to do that, it needs to attract passengers in an area where the car is an excellent choice, with little congestion and enjoyable driving. For it to do that, it needs to offer a quality service.

I see no reason why 99.9+% punctuality should not be a valid aim on a route like this. Only severe weather and weather-related damage should be delaying anything, and then only rarely.

I'd rather see a more German approach, to be honest - consistent clockface Taktfahrplan, brand new DMUs[1] etc.

[1] I'd say 230s, but, errm...

 

[37038]

If your a commuter/regular user of the route then you want your train to do what it says on the tin, and if a pacer can do that more reliably then so be it, its not a preserved railway for enthusiasts.

Yes but they don't. Pacer/Sprinter and infrastructure failures are just as common as LHCS failure. And yet, as mentioned by a previous poster, there's never any mention when a 142 sits down somewhere?

With delay in GWRM and the general cascades being delayed, there's a distinct possibility LHCS is here for slightly longer than the current contract

 

[QueensCurve]

Incompetence by control yesterday in dealing with late running. Caping trains that didn't need to be caped and running ECS's which needn't have moved.

Caping?

 

[37038]

Caping?

Cancelling

 

[QueensCurve]

I'd rather see a more German approach, to be honest - consistent clockface Taktfahrplan, brand new DMUs[1] etc.

[1] I'd say 230s, but, errm...

Clockface working is not easy or not possible on the route because of the infrastructure.

There a single line sections close to where trains cross and it is not easy to path trains on a clockface pattern as a result.

The block sections are long with signal box spacing typically two stations apart.

An update to the signalling might help, but funding is unlikely to be available.

The single track section between Parton and Harrington was a solution to reinstating the line when the sea wall was breached in a storm around 1970. There are 3 geological threats to this part of the route:-

• The sea
• the cliffs falling onto the line
• subsidence from the workings of William Pit below.

It would of course be nice to see improvements to the route but this seems unlikely in the foreseeable future.