Train pulls away with children left on platform

[yorkie]

I guess the DM have never heard of the Island Line

Island Line is operated by SWT; presumably this brought SWT's average down?

 

[yorkie]

Would this be an appropriate time to pull the cord, seeing as they had to leave 3 young children unsupervised in public?

If the train had not started to move, yes. If it had, then no.

Not possible is it? Dont trains have a warning alarm to tell you when the doors are going to be closed.?

They admit that it did, but I think they expected an announcement to say doors will close soon, like you get on InterCity trains from London termini.

Clearly (to most people) that's not proportionate for a stopping service at random shacks.

 

[Gareth Marston]

We had a similar sort of incident at Newtown earlier this year. A females two friends went onboard with her luggage whilst she stayed on platform passing luggage to them. Queue whistle from conductor women stands back from doors stands there and friends stay on train with door closing and its on its way to Welshpool.

Users mainly at fault.

 

[Monty]

If the train had not started to move, yes. If it had, then no.

However if the train has only just started you should still pull the red passenger communication apparatus handle (the pass comm) and the train will stop if any part of the train is still accommodated on the platform. This way the train crew can release a local door and find out what has happened.

I can't really comment on this as the article gives very little infomation on what exactly happened. If the children were stood well back from the platform its entirely possible that they competely obscured from view by the station building's canopy. Can't understand though why the father didn't just wave at the guard and ask for help, he obviously had his hands full and that's what we are there for. No doubt we will get a notice soon instructing us to be extra vigilant in the future but if it's not immediately apparent that there are unattended children on the platform while one parent his assisting the other I'm not sure it will do much good. Will have to wait and see to get the full picture.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Monty - a question knowing that you are traincrew...

If, in a circumstance like this where a member of the public sees something like this happening and recognises it for what it is, and that member of the public knows the "both arms up" sign and gives it - would the crew react to that sign ( i.e. being given from a member of the public ) just the same as if it was from a member of staff and stop the departure immediately?

 

[Groningen]

My reading is that SHE was travelling on her own, and the husband was helping her find a seat.

Not able to do it herself?

Why didn't they ask the guard for help?

The guard should look for a seat?

I can not imagion that at 9.30 in the morning it is still peak travel. And also the term "remote station". South of the station are enough houses to be found. Not sure what kind of trains run there. It was the 7.35 from London Waterloo to Weymouth. I think that it was not a short train.

 

[SPADTrap]

Monty - a question knowing that you are traincrew...

If, in a circumstance like this where a member of the public sees something like this happening and recognises it for what it is, and that member of the public knows the "both arms up" sign and gives it - would the crew react to that sign ( i.e. being given from a member of the public ) just the same as if it was from a member of staff and stop the departure immediately?

As a driver I would stop.

 

[Monty]

Monty - a question knowing that you are traincrew...

If, in a circumstance like this where a member of the public sees something like this happening and recognises it for what it is, and that member of the public knows the "both arms up" sign and gives it - would the crew react to that sign ( i.e. being given from a member of the public ) just the same as if it was from a member of staff and stop the departure immediately?

I would say yes, because the train crew would be looking at the signal given rather than figuring out if he person doing it is staff or not. That said putting both hands is quite a natural response if you want to try and stop somebody so the guard, platform staff or driver should react if they see it. It need not be the 'official' signal either, waving/holding up one or more hands in the air and shouting loudly should be more than enough to catch the attention of the guard or whoever is in charge of dispatching the train if something has gone wrong.

 

[Llanigraham]

Not able to do it herself?

The article says she was on crutches

 

[Matt Taylor]

Hinton Admiral has no sighting issues in regard to dispatch on either platform and guards can be at any door provided it is accommodated on the platform, the slight curve of the platform works in your favour in the down direction as was the case in this instance. There is no obligation for us to use our whistles at every station stop and I'd be far less likely to use it at a quiet station like Hinton.

As for the Daily Mail, the fact they have quoted a tweet linking the guard with ASLEF and the NUR speaks volumes!

 

[CarlSilva]

Is that a quote from the article? (It's in The Mail so I didn't read it.) If so, then consider the source.

Yeah mate. It's part of the headline.

 

[The Ham]

Personally, I would only help people to the door of the train. If they needed more help (as was the case here) I would buy a return to the next station so as to ensure that the person in question was sorted.

It helps that my children like going on trains so would think that it was fun and that the next station is only 5 minutes away.

If it were for a longer journey I would contact the TOC in advance and see what assistance they could provide.

 

[bb21]

There does not appear to be a record of the incident in the national database, so either the couple decided to run off to the press to have a moan without telling anyone, or the Daily Hate Mail really take the biscuit this time for grave-digging on a slow news day.

 

[Chrisjohnw15]

I can't believe there is a 3-page discussion about a Daily Mail article. How anyone can take that rag seriously is beyond me.

 

[LowLevel]

I once sent 3 unattended children from a Midlands station to London because their parents had sent them on to the platform alone while they waited to get a coffee. They actually seemed to think it was my fault for not getting the guard to dump the brake and stop it (it was a HST) especially when it transpired child A was 17. Apparently it was 'something I'd look back on and realise I'd made a mistake'. Nope, years later, I'm still quite happy that you're a pair of thick idiots who deserved a wake up call

 

[najaB]

...especially when it transpired child A was 17.

A 17 year-old is a minor, but not a child. At least they shouldn't be, but given some parent's attitudes these days...

 

[Peter Mugridge]

As a driver I would stop.

I would say yes, because the train crew would be looking at the signal given rather than figuring out if he person doing it is staff or not. That said putting both hands is quite a natural response if you want to try and stop somebody so the guard, platform staff or driver should react if they see it. It need not be the 'official' signal either, waving/holding up one or more hands in the air and shouting loudly should be more than enough to catch the attention of the guard or whoever is in charge of dispatching the train if something has gone wrong.

Thank you both; I had been wondering about that for some time even before this thread arose.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

I can't believe there is a 3-page discussion about a Daily Mail article. How anyone can take that rag seriously is beyond me.

Unfortunately millions of people do (cf. Brexit) and so any issues they raise about the railways are likely to influence people far more than any piece of 'good' journalism.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I once sent 3 unattended children from a Midlands station to London because their parents had sent them on to the platform alone while they waited to get a coffee. They actually seemed to think it was my fault for not getting the guard to dump the brake and stop it (it was a HST) especially when it transpired child A was 17. Apparently it was 'something I'd look back on and realise I'd made a mistake'. Nope, years later, I'm still quite happy that you're a pair of thick idiots who deserved a wake up call

You told them to board a train against parental wishes?


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[najaB]

You told them to board a train against parental wishes?

My guess is that it was something like:

LowLevel: Are you getting this train or not?
Kids jump on expecting parents to follow
Train departs stage right, parents enter stage left
Parents: Where are the kids?

 

[ComUtoR]

If, in a circumstance like this where a member of the public sees something like this happening and recognises it for what it is, and that member of the public knows the "both arms up" sign and gives it - would the crew react to that sign ( i.e. being given from a member of the public ) just the same as if it was from a member of staff and stop the departure immediately?

The problem with handsignals is that they require both parties to be seen. I'd probably stop but ONLY if I saw you and ONLY if I believed the handsignal was a genuine handsignal intended to stop me.

In all likely hood, on my part of the network, I wouldn't even see you.

 

[47271]

I got involved with an incident like this in Edinburgh a couple of years ago, in this case the kids got trapped on the train because they weren't quite as quick as the adults when a family realised that they'd got on the wrong service at Waverley. The doors shut and locked with the parents on the platform and the children, who became extremely upset, on the train heading to Haymarket...

Two female passengers managed to get the mothers mobile number and tried to call her to say that we'd get them off at Haymarket, but then we went into the tunnel...

The women got them onto the platform at Haymarket while I blocked the doors, otherwise there was a risk that the helpers would get left behind as well. The conductor was a bit annoyed with us faffing around until he understood what was going on and then was brilliant, by which time it was obvious that the platform staff already knew exactly what had happened. And we managed all of this without the help of The Daily Mail, amazing.

The root cause of the problem however is the railway's insistence that for operational convenience they send the 1637 Aberdeen and 1643 Inverness trains - both with very high proportions of infrequent and easily confused users - away from P16 at Waverley in quick succession. Day in day out I see people on the wrong service, albeit not as upset as the kids. A relatively easy thing to fix you'd think.

 

[LowLevel]

Not even that. The children came down the stairs and got on the train under their own steam while I was 5 coaches away slamming doors. I believe the parents had told them to get on and find seats. When the train was halfway out of the platform doing an increasing rate of knots said parents came running down said stairs clutching coffees screaming that their kids were on there. I rang the train manager and I believe the kids were treated to a trip in first class and the parents followed on behind.

Given you can't really open a local door on a HST (not officially anyway) stopping the train which may well have been entirely out of the platform before it came to a stand would have presented far greater risk to those on board than letting it continue.

Consequently the parents learned a lesson about the stupidity of sending their 3 children wandering off around a large mainline station in a big city unattended.

 

[Camden]

The middle classes.

Funnily enough, exactly the same type the DM is written for!

They won't have learned their lesson. As far as they are concerned you weren't doing your job, because it's supposed to be like the train to Hogwarts.

 

[341o2]

This was also reported in my local paper a while back - 22 Dec to be exact

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/ne...ay_platform_after_train_doors_close_suddenly/

Young children were stranded at a remote railway station when train doors closed unexpectedly.

A five-year-old girl and her two brothers, aged seven and 10, were left on the platform at Hinton Admiral in the New Forest as their horrified parents headed towards Christchurch on board a train.

Claire and Paul Leighton could see their children crying but were unable to stop the 9.31am service.

Paul got off the train as soon as it stopped at Christchurch and returned by taxi to the small station, where his distraught children were being looked after by a member of staff.

Paul and the children had taken Claire to the station to help her because she is on crutches after breaking both her legs this summer.

She said: “Paul was helping me to get to a seat when the doors suddenly closed without warning. He had only been on the train for a matter of seconds.

“Hinton Admiral station is very quiet as well so if anyone had looked they would have seen that the children were standing by the train on their own.”

Claire’s sister, Helen Knox, was waiting for her at Bournemouth station when she received a text.

She said: “I told the staff at Bournemouth station and they were very good and got in touch with Hinton Admiral straightaway.

“Claire just said the doors had closed much too quickly and that no one could have looked or they would have seen the children.”

Paul had no money on him at the time of the incident and said he would like to thank a man at Christchurch station who paid his taxi fare.

“He could see we were in a panic and said he had children so he understood” said Paul. “We are really grateful.”

After the incident Paul took the children back to their home in Bransgore.

Claire eventually met her two sisters and they continued with their family tradition of wrapping their Christmas presents together.

A South West Trains spokesperson said: "Passenger safety is always our primary concern, particularly in cases such as this where children are travelling on our services.

"We were concerned to hear about the circumstances involved in this case.

"One of our senior managers has made contact with the parents directly to reassure them that we are carrying out a full internal investigation into
this incident which will include accessing the CCTV."

Agree with the op, what had the guard done wrong? If there is no movement, doors on this class will close after 30 seconds. There has been suggestions that the guard should have noted the children on the platform and is somehow to blame. But unless running early, the train will basically stop as long as it takes for passengers to board/alight.

Moral - the husband should not have boarded without notifying the guard. As has been commented if you don't have a valid ticket, you shouldn't be boarding a train

 

[najaB]

The root cause of the problem however is the railway's insistence that for operational convenience...

Not intended as a personal attack, but the phrase 'for operational convenience' is thrown around way too much. Sometimes it is valid, but in a lot of cases the alternative (if there is one) would be highly disruptive. I've had a look at Realtime trains and there doesn't seem to be a 1637/1641 combo off platform 16 so it may well have been resolved.

 

[341o2]

My reading is that SHE was travelling on her own, and the husband was helping her find a seat.

You are right

Family arrives at Hinton Admiral. the wife was the only member supposed to travel by train to meet her sister.
Husband helps her board, children directed to wait on platform
Doors close while he is assisting her to a seat
Guard signals train to depart....panic. One DE commentator brought up the supposed danger of the children being abducted

Note the emotional tone of the DE trying to sensationalise this incident. As I commented if you are a guard/train dispatcher are you supposed to ensure that anyone on the platform is not intending to travel because a family member has boarded without intention of travelling?

 

[Bletchleyite]

My guess is that it was something like:

LowLevel: Are you getting this train or not?
Kids jump on expecting parents to follow
Train departs stage right, parents enter stage left
Parents: Where are the kids?

Yeah, most probably. Fair enough.


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[Bletchleyite]

Consequently the parents learned a lesson about the stupidity of sending their 3 children wandering off around a large mainline station in a big city unattended.

Quite!


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[ijmad]

Surely Parent 1 should get on the train, then the kids, then Parent 2. It's not rocket science!

On the tube I'll sometimes help a lone parent with a pushchair by physically blocking the door (just in case, not holding the train) while they get the pushchair on/off to avoid similar problems.