Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[Scotrail84]

Another failure tonight, this 92 014 on 5C11. Rescued by 66 744. No delay to the departure of 1C11 as 90 049 the loco for 1M16 was used to haul C11 to carstairs, the 90 then returning light to Edinburgh to work M16

The 66 and failed 92 ran light to either Polmadie or Mossed loco sidings.

 

[bb21]

Is there actually any real need for a separate loco for the Edinburgh portion? If I read it correctly, the one on S25 can simply return to Carstairs after dropping the set in Edinburgh to work B26, and in the up direction, as you described above.

 

[lincolnshire]

Didn't we make that mistake with some Sleeper stock before, that might otherwise, once its original purpose went away, have been used on the Caledonian and Westcountry sleepers rather than being flogged off on the cheap to the Canadians?

Didn,t all this rolling stock for the Night Eurostars belong to the government and not the rolling stock companies, so it was up to the government as to what happened to it after been stored for a long time. The good old taxpayer paid for it and I bet we also lost money on selling it off cheap too and we will have picked up all the storage cost associated keeping it ready to be introduced into service and then till it was sold off.
At Doncaster Wabtec you can see ( stand on platform 8 and look across to the works)one of the I believe to be a converted coach with generator for train power when attached to the trains, would that be still a good idea for the present trains instead of Ethel having to be used.

 

[Scotrail84]

Is there actually any real need for a separate loco for the Edinburgh portion? If I read it correctly, the one on S25 can simply return to Carstairs after dropping the set in Edinburgh to work B26, and in the up direction, as you described above.

No driver to do this. Plus if S25 is extremely late and S26 is on time then you've got an issue, I have seen S26 overtake S25 at Crewe before.

 

[Please Explain]

A old liveried FL 90 leading 1S26 tonight. Didn't get the number as made it just in time with lots of luggage!
Viewed in the dark from a droplight, it looked like a sybic! I thought I was back in France for a minute!

Will report back with the number in the morning when I see it on the blocks at central.

 

[JonathanH]

A old liveried FL 90 leading 1S26 tonight. Didn't get the number as made it just in time with lots of luggage!
Viewed in the dark from a droplight, it looked like a sybic! I thought I was back in France for a minute!

Will report back with the number in the morning when I see it on the blocks at central.

Should be 90048 based on last week's reports.

90046 on 1M11 and 90045 on 1M16 tonight.

 

[Please Explain]

Indeed it was 048! Looking very sad in faded FL gray devoid f it's BR arrows under the cab windows..

The guard told me that we took the 92 (was in too much of a hurry to take note of the number), that brought in the empties with us to Carstairs for it to work the Edinburgh this morning. Never heard of that happening before but I guess 90048 did pretty well handling load 16, plus a dead 92 on the back all on its own with a RT arrival at Central.

 

[Highland37]

I have to say that I am very impressed that the 86, 87 and 90s can handle such a long train with only four axles being powered.

It would be interesting to hear how they all perform from a driving perspective.

 

[Kite159]

The seated coach on the Fort William service this morning was freezing cold

 

[Bletchleyite]

It always is, the unusual air-blown heating system (not the standard Mk2 kit) can't keep up if it's a bit cold.


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[JonathanH]

The seated coach on the Fort William service this morning was freezing cold

It always is, the unusual air-blown heating system (not the standard Mk2 kit) can't keep up if it's a bit cold.


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It was probably 9526 this morning which is a standard BSO (rather than BUO) as that worked the previous night from Fort William. It didn't seem particularly cold in the Edinburgh direction.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Is that the X Virgin Hire in from Riviera? I came down on the fort bill last week and it was one of the regular Cally seated vehicles which wasnt cold but not warm iether. Any idea why the heating/air conditioning on these is as it is?

 

[47271]

All of the mk2s have terrible temperature control. You can leave Euston on the Highlander on a warm evening in the summer and the sleepers themselves are all spot on but the lounge is sweltering - it's only speed and open droplights that get it tolerable. Equally they're often freezing in the winter. Never mind the awful noisy, grabbing, tread brakes and the eighties nightclub ambience, it's nothing short of amazing that they make it from one end of the country to the other on a nightly basis.

The mk2s are decrepit and need to be moved on ASAP. Only seven or eight years in rail technology development separates them from the mk3s but it feels more like 30.

 

[TheEscapist_]

Travelled in the seating bit to Glasgow once. Got on at London the coach was really warm perfect temp for a wee sleep but when we got to Carlisle it was freezing cold.


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[Blindtraveler]

Did Nat X Scotrail who introduced these coaches change the heating when they refurbished the vehicles prior to introduction?

 

[al78]

It always is, the unusual air-blown heating system (not the standard Mk2 kit) can't keep up if it's a bit cold.


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A bit pointless having it in the first place if it can't perform its intended purpose. It is like owning a car that can't cope with speeds above 10 mph. :roll:

 

[Bletchleyite]

Did Nat X Scotrail who introduced these coaches change the heating when they refurbished the vehicles prior to introduction?

I have wondered this. It isn't the conventional "hot air via the radiators, cold air from the ceiling vents" approach used almost everywhere. It uses a blown-air system that produces air at the desired temperature, then alternates, about every 10 seconds or so, between blowing it in from the floor-level vents and from the ceiling vents.

Does anyone know why this was introduced? I've never seen it on any other UK rolling stock, only these coaches. Is it something to do with fire safety by not having electric radiators in the saloon, as most (non DMU) train heating is?

 

[Mag_seven]

Indeed it was 048! Looking very sad in faded FL gray devoid f it's BR arrows under the cab windows..

The guard told me that we took the 92 (was in too much of a hurry to take note of the number), that brought in the empties with us to Carstairs for it to work the Edinburgh this morning. Never heard of that happening before but I guess 90048 did pretty well handling load 16, plus a dead 92 on the back all on its own with a RT arrival at Central.

Whats the betting we will continue to see hired in Skodas well into 2017? This Class 92 situation is now beyond a joke.

 

[Highland37]

What's the issue now?

 

[leomartin125]

What's the issue now?

Potentially the fact that despite the 90's being initially a short term fix to the ongoing Sleeper Loco issue, have now turned into a long term hire fix. All I can see ahead for Serco is changing contracts, and moving to Freightliner permanently instead of GBRf when looking for motive power for their sleepers. The 90's have definitely proved themselves the solution, and I'm starting to doubt the 92's will ever be back on the front of the mainline sleepers again.

Meanwhile I don't understand how 92033 went for works at Loughborough, and has returned to be all but used. And 92014, where did that go? Just dissapeared completely and I haven't seen it since the summer. Any updates on where GBRf are at with getting these 92's ready again, if ever they do?

 

[marks87]

Potentially the fact that despite the 90's being initially a short term fix to the ongoing Sleeper Loco issue, have now turned into a long term hire fix. All I can see ahead for Serco is changing contracts, and moving to Freightliner permanently instead of GBRf when looking for motive power for their sleepers. The 90's have definitely proved themselves the solution, and I'm starting to doubt the 92's will ever be back on the front of the mainline sleepers again.

How many times does it need repeated - the 92s are the only locomotives with a high enough ETS index to power a full formation of the new stock.

 

[43096]

Potentially the fact that despite the 90's being initially a short term fix to the ongoing Sleeper Loco issue, have now turned into a long term hire fix. All I can see ahead for Serco is changing contracts, and moving to Freightliner permanently instead of GBRf when looking for motive power for their sleepers. The 90's have definitely proved themselves the solution, and I'm starting to doubt the 92's will ever be back on the front of the mainline sleepers again.

Why do Serco need to change contracts? GBRf are delivering the contract.

The 92s will be back, but I'm starting to doubt you have got the faintest idea what you are talking about, even though you have been told repeatedly.

 

[Highland37]

How many times does it need repeated - the 92s are the only locomotives with a high enough ETS index to power a full formation of the new stock.

Aye but they don't appear to be very reliable at hauling trains.

 

[47271]

How many times does it need repeated - the 92s are the only locomotives with a high enough ETS index to power a full formation of the new stock.

Assuming that they start running the new stock in full formations.

 

[Highland37]

Costs aside, clearly another solution is possible such as upgrading the ETS on the 90s but they are getting on now also so might become as unreliable as the 92s.

Saying GBRF are delivering the contract is true, but seems to be very blinkered. Clearly things have not gone according to plan and it must be costing them extra have two types of loco they aren't using and also incurring hire costs from others. That is not a sustainable situation so anyone concerned about the long term future, should be wondering what the solution is in the long term. That might be 92s and 73s. However there is the intangible element of this. Both those types have not been good enough to date, so confidence in them will be reduced.

 

[43096]

Saying GBRF are delivering the contract is true, but seems to be very blinkered. Clearly things have not gone according to plan and it must be costing them extra have two types of loco they aren't using and also incurring hire costs from others.

But are GBRf picking up the costs? It could be that the issue with the 92s is NR related so NR are paying. Likewise I would expect Brush (and ultimately MTU) to be picking up the tab for the 73s as it is a warranty issue.

 

[captainbigun]

Costs aside, clearly another solution is possible such as upgrading the ETS on the 90s but they are getting on now also so might become as unreliable as the 92s.

Is it clearly another solution? New transformer for starters....

Really not going to happen. Lots more wibble.

The 90s are far from without their issues.

 

[Highland37]

But are GBRf picking up the costs? It could be that the issue with the 92s is NR related so NR are paying. Likewise I would expect Brush (and ultimately MTU) to be picking up the tab for the 73s as it is a warranty issue.

I know and that is the point. There are additional costs with these locos as they require extra work. Any well run business will be concerned about non-standard ways of operating by their suppliers. Ultimately someone pays for these unreliable machines and that is benefiting no one.

How do you know what warranty has been agreed?

 

[Highland37]

Is it clearly another solution? New transformer for starters....

Really not going to happen. Lots more wibble.

The 90s are far from without their issues.

I know. There is pretty much no reliable loco available. Unless a bespoke 88 is built. Some seem to think contract delivered = no problem. Well yes if you don't pay any attention to how your suppliers are doing.

 

[43096]

How do you know what warranty has been agreed?

I don't, hence the wording I used!