Potential Rail Disruption from Storm Angus - 20/11

[matacaster]

If you treat it as a normal day, when do you find out that lines are blocked by trains? When a train runs into them.

How about sending out night vision cameras mounted on drones to check routes out? Sending a train out relatively slowly into unknown danger doesn't sound particularly clever,

 

[EM2]

As I've said I know how many times, there was no extreme weather in Kent other than on the coast.

Even though there were two trees brought down inland.
EDIT - to add, you say there was no extreme weather. Yet earlier, your solution was:

You treat it as a normal day, if at the start of service lines are blocked by fallen trees then obviously you can't run trains

So, if you treat it as a normal day, no matter what the forecast, when do you find out that you have lines blocked by trees?

 

[221129]

How about sending out night vision cameras mounted on drones to check routes out? Sending a train out relatively slowly into unknown danger doesn't sound particularly clever,

And the slightest gust of wind and bye bye drone. Also you can't cover the same large areas you can with a proving train.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The line between Swindon and Bath Spa (via Box Tunnel) is closed in both directions.

Services from Bristol Temple Meads to Paddington at xx:00 will divert via Bristol Parkway and will not call at Bath Spa or Chippenham.

Services from Bristol Temple Meads to Paddington at xx:30 will call at its booked stations but delays expected as train will divert via Melksham.

Services from Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads at xx:00 will call at its booked stations but delays expected as train will divert via Melksham.

Services from Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads at xx:30 will divert via Bristol Parkway and will not call at Chippenham or Bath Spa.

Due to overcrowding, controlled boarding is in place at Bristol Temple Meads to allow safe access to the station. Please follow the instructions of the station staff.

Customers are advised not to travel unless absolutely necessary.

Customers with tickets for travel today Monday 21st of November who have been unable to or do not want to travel due to flooding may use tickets on Tuesday 22nd November.

 

[Antman]

But the forecast said differently.

And the forecast was wrong!

Although in fairness it is impossible to predict the exact nature of these things, all the more reason southeastern should have been ready to roll instead of throwing the towel in the night before.

How did SWT run trains in Hampshire where the weather was much worse?

 

[6Gman]

As I've said I know how many times, there was no extreme weather in Kent other than on the coast.

And where do most of the railway lines run?

And was this coastal exclusivity forecast?

 

[EM2]

.
How did SWT run trains in Hampshire where the weather was much worse?

They didn't:
http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=St...lang=en-GB&w=47xyI6FZV7uDjpDRsQAr8wPbCsftK9KZ

 

[Bald Rick]

And the forecast was wrong!

Although in fairness it is impossible to predict the exact nature of these things, all the more reason southeastern should have been ready to roll instead of throwing the towel in the night before.

How did SWT run trains in Hampshire where the weather was much worse?

A) it wasn't worse in Hampshire.
B) the route proving trains were run. Hence the first few trains were all delayed on the areas proved
C) the routes not subject to proving (as the risk was lower) were subject to 50mph restrictions for the first few trains.

 

[221129]

Taunton - Bristol now reopened

 

[Wivenswold]

The forecast was wrong? No, not really.

For about 7 days the computer models had picked up the potential storm. Each day it's track and intensity changed a little. The storm veered a little (less than about 20 miles) south of its projected track in the end which reduced maximum wind speeds around the Kent and Essex coasts. Not wrong, just slightly different and that margin of error was reflected in the forecasts.

If, for example, it had tracked 20 miles further north, then we'd be on page 90 of this thread by now.

The Met Office warnings were more than justified in my opinion and if you look at their little table which shows how they arrive at releasing a warning you'll see that they are graded in terms of probability and potential impact. A red warning means high impact to infrastructure and danger to life is certain.

 

[Antman]

The forecast was wrong? No, not really.

For about 7 days the computer models had picked up the potential storm. Each day it's track and intensity changed a little. The storm veered a little (less than about 20 miles) south of its projected track in the end which reduced maximum wind speeds around the Kent and Essex coasts. Not wrong, just slightly different and that margin of error was reflected in the forecasts.

If, for example, it had tracked 20 miles further north, then we'd be on page 90 of this thread by now.

The Met Office warnings were more than justified in my opinion and if you look at their little table which shows how they arrive at releasing a warning you'll see that they are graded in terms of probability and potential impact. A red warning means high impact to infrastructure and danger to life is certain.

For the umpteenth time there was no significantly bad weather in Kent, in fact it's probably windier at this very moment, suspend all services?

 

[EM2]

For the umpteenth time there was no significantly bad weather in Kent, in fact it's probably windier at this very moment, suspend all services?

No wind here. Plenty of rain though.
And for the umpteenth time, there is NO WAY that it could be known that the weather would not be as bad as forecast.

 

[gavin]

Flooding near Stalybridge - Delays of up to 40 minutes

A tree is blocking the railway near Edale

The line between New Mills Central and Sheffield is blocked due to flooding

Flooding between Derby and Chesterfield - Delays of up to 50 minutes and cancellations

 

[6Gman]

No wind here. Plenty of rain though.
And for the umpteenth time, there is NO WAY that it could be known that the weather would not be as bad as forecast.

What he said.

Our formic friend seems to be struggling with the very idea that the railway has to make arrangements in advance based on weather forecasting, not "busk it" on the day!

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Great Western have been having a torrid time with flooding this afternoon, some trains having been held for hours with no 'route of escape'. I'm on the 1530 Paddington-Weston which at this moment (1843) is just approaching Melksham 90+ late. All are doing the best they can in the circumstances.

 

[Elecman]

I assume the Route proving trains have a PWay presence on them with suitable chainsaws/ axes?

 

[221129]

Great Western have been having a torrid time with flooding this afternoon, some trains having been held for hours with no 'route of escape'.

Do you know which trains they were? No trains have been stranded 'for hours' as far as I could see.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Do you know which trains they were? No trains have been stranded 'for hours' as far as I could see.

Not stranded, 'held'. As in, at stations. For instance 1C84 1407 padd-pnz which made it as far as Newbury, and an up B&H HST (1A8x) which got to Castle Cary before returning to Taunton about 2hrs later.

 

[Antman]

What he said.

Our formic friend seems to be struggling with the very idea that the railway has to make arrangements in advance based on weather forecasting, not "busk it" on the day!

Of course it doesn't have to make arrangements in advance!

 

[221129]

Not stranded, 'held'. As in, at stations. For instance 1C84 1407 padd-pnz which made it as far as Newbury, and an up B&H HST (1A8x) which got to Castle Cary before returning to Taunton about 2hrs later.

So there was a route of escape. Sorry I thought you meant as in trains stranded in the middle of nowhere for hours, which wasn't the case.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Of course it doesn't have to make arrangements in advance!

If I might be so impolite with my third forum post, this comment suggests it's author has never been near a Control office.

 

[EM2]

Of course it doesn't have to make arrangements in advance!

So let's say you're in Control and decide not to make advance arrangements, and you run trains, and those trains encounter one (or all) of the four trees that did fall.
Now what do you do?
Your off-track teams could be anywhere (seeing as you think there's no need to make arrangements) and as pointed out earlier, you could now have:

• damaged train(s)
• possibly damaged track if the train(s) derailed
• possibly injured or dead crew and/or passengers
• blocked line(s)
• trains stuck behind
• and people stranded for a long time

So, how do you respond? Oh, and you now have people stuck at stations that can't now travel because of the above.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

So there was a route of escape. Sorry I thought you meant as in trains stranded in the middle of nowhere for hours, which wasn't the case.

Fair comment, was slightly poorly worded. GWR stranded trains policy seems to work reasonably well in that trains are held at staffed stations rather than in open countryside for hours as was historically the case!

 

[221129]

So the line between Taunton and Bristol has reopened but now the line between Exeter And Tiverton has been closed due to flooding at Hele & Bradninch

 

[Bungle965]

Due to flooding between Todmorden and Rochdale all lines are blocked. Train services through these stations may be subject to disruption on all routes. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

As usual the Calder Valley is flooded at Walsden, with flood sirens going off in Walsden itself.
Sam

 

[Nevasleep]

South Wales getting hit hard too.
The 14:45 Pad to Swa is arriving at Bristol Parkway 188mins late, expected to reach Swansea at 20:41

 

[Antman]

So let's say you're in Control and decide not to make advance arrangements, and you run trains, and those trains encounter one (or all) of the four trees that did fall.
Now what do you do?
Your off-track teams could be anywhere (seeing as you think there's no need to make arrangements) and as pointed out earlier, you could now have:

• damaged train(s)
• possibly damaged track if the train(s) derailed
• possibly injured or dead crew and/or passengers
• blocked line(s)
• trains stuck behind
• and people stranded for a long time

So, how do you respond? Oh, and you now have people stuck at stations that can't now travel because of the above.

Now if only those naughty truckers could let TOC's know in advance when they are going to hit a low bridge and disrupt everything.

Things change due to the weather or other factors as evidenced by postings on here about problems in the west country, which I'm sure make far more interesting reading than going over and over this again.

 

[EM2]

...going over and over this again.

Except we haven't gone over and over it, because you don't answer.
I'm out.

 

[Iskra]

I've been stranded at Honiton today with no RRB available. Luckily a service bus turned up after 45mins and got us all to Exeter very slowly.

I then had to buy a new ticket for the 1624 XC HST, which we got turfed off at Taunton, but then told to get back on. We then reached Bristol via Westbury and Bath very slowly with the train rammed full of London passengers. We're currently sat at Bristol Temple Meads awaiting a spare driver, if any exist. Should be arriving Leeds about 2 hours late at this point, but at least we'll get there.

 

[221129]

I've been stranded at Honiton today with no RRB available. Luckily a service bus turned up after 45mins and got us all to Exeter very slowly.

I then had to buy a new ticket for the 1624 XC HST, which we got turfed off at Taunton, but then told to get back on. We then reached Bristol via Westbury and Bath very slowly with the train rammed full of London passengers. We're currently sat at Bristol Temple Meads awaiting a spare driver, if any exist. Should be arriving Leeds about 2 hours late at this point, but at least we'll get there.

Why did you need to buy a new ticket out of interest?

 

[PHILIPE]

So far as GWR problems are concerned, NRE Website can't keep up with developments. Information historical.